This forum is great and i have read alot of posts that have answered many of my questions. I hunt deer in PA every year and have a great rifle set up but wanted to try something different. I recently purchased a Rem 700 sps tactical aac-sd and put a BSA tactical weapon 3-16x44 ( I know a cheapy). I sighted the gun in at 100 yards with 150gr federals. This rifle has not produced the groups I have seen from most remmy 700's. So i tried 180gr federals and it was worse. I was shooting from a bench with a front bag as a rest. I have read that alot people who have also purchased this rifle have swapped the stock. Any advise would help, as I have been hunting for many years however iam new to the tactical market Thanks.
Newb With Questions
- Thread starter DesertFox3088
- Start date
Re: Newb With Questions
I guess that would depend on what kind of groups you expect. You did not specify.
I guess that would depend on what kind of groups you expect. You did not specify.
Re: Newb With Questions
Honestly I would start with the basics, is trigger decent? all screws properly torqued?
Not saying it is but.. Have you tried an alternate scope you know is 100% good to go?
Also I assume from the weights you choose you are shooting huning bullets,?
Most people here are posting pics with tailored handloads or match ammo.
May want to try other brands/ weights of ammo..
The stock is not the best/ worst out there. Try shooting off of sand bags not a bipod, pay attention to th eplacement of sand bags etc. Most here report uneven pressure caused by the flimsy fore end when using a bipod.
Lastly good luck, wish I were home this year to hunt in PA, been 15 yrs since last trip in PA deer woods..
Honestly I would start with the basics, is trigger decent? all screws properly torqued?
Not saying it is but.. Have you tried an alternate scope you know is 100% good to go?
Also I assume from the weights you choose you are shooting huning bullets,?
Most people here are posting pics with tailored handloads or match ammo.
May want to try other brands/ weights of ammo..
The stock is not the best/ worst out there. Try shooting off of sand bags not a bipod, pay attention to th eplacement of sand bags etc. Most here report uneven pressure caused by the flimsy fore end when using a bipod.
Lastly good luck, wish I were home this year to hunt in PA, been 15 yrs since last trip in PA deer woods..
Re: Newb With Questions
well not that i have any experience but alot of people use the ai aw stock (aics) you could check into that if switching the stock was something you really wanted to do
Where in PA are you btw?
well not that i have any experience but alot of people use the ai aw stock (aics) you could check into that if switching the stock was something you really wanted to do
Where in PA are you btw?
Re: Newb With Questions
Thanks for the quick response i was hoping for 1.5 to 1 inch 3 shot groups. The rail and scope rings were tq'd to spec. The 150gr loads I used were boat tail federals and the 180s were soft points. It also looks from what i have read that rifle likes 168 or 176gr pills.
Thanks for the quick response i was hoping for 1.5 to 1 inch 3 shot groups. The rail and scope rings were tq'd to spec. The 150gr loads I used were boat tail federals and the 180s were soft points. It also looks from what i have read that rifle likes 168 or 176gr pills.
Re: Newb With Questions
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 000000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the quick response i was hoping for 1.5 to 1 inch 3 shot groups. The rail and scope rings were tq'd to spec. The 150gr loads I used were boat tail federals and the 180s were soft points. It also looks from what i have read that rifle likes 168 or 176gr pills. </div></div>
I'm no expert, but I'm sure your groups would shrink with better ammo. Try FGGM 168 or 175 grain.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 000000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the quick response i was hoping for 1.5 to 1 inch 3 shot groups. The rail and scope rings were tq'd to spec. The 150gr loads I used were boat tail federals and the 180s were soft points. It also looks from what i have read that rifle likes 168 or 176gr pills. </div></div>
I'm no expert, but I'm sure your groups would shrink with better ammo. Try FGGM 168 or 175 grain.
Re: Newb With Questions
Ammo would probably be a good place to start. Check on Hornady's Amax or the FGMM will be excellent places to start. Now it's true that a stock upgrade would probably benefit you, but once you start that pony then it gets out of control fast! I'd look at something like a B&C Medalist or heck if you're just gonna hunt, check a carbalite. Check out Stocky's stocks online or keep an eye on the classifieds here for a used stock. Then you might want to go to the trigger or possibly tune on yours, provided you know what you're doing. Most importantly, spend some time with your gun and get good with it. Make sure you're doing all the little things properly, as they add up to alot down range! After all that, then you would probably be best served to start reloading and working on a handload to better your accuracy! I would bet that you could get the groups you want by simply finding a factory load that will perform for you and give you the terminal ballistics that you require for the task you've chosen the rifle for. Oh yeah and get rid of that scope for something better. I would definately be checking to make sure that the scope is not a problem!
Ammo would probably be a good place to start. Check on Hornady's Amax or the FGMM will be excellent places to start. Now it's true that a stock upgrade would probably benefit you, but once you start that pony then it gets out of control fast! I'd look at something like a B&C Medalist or heck if you're just gonna hunt, check a carbalite. Check out Stocky's stocks online or keep an eye on the classifieds here for a used stock. Then you might want to go to the trigger or possibly tune on yours, provided you know what you're doing. Most importantly, spend some time with your gun and get good with it. Make sure you're doing all the little things properly, as they add up to alot down range! After all that, then you would probably be best served to start reloading and working on a handload to better your accuracy! I would bet that you could get the groups you want by simply finding a factory load that will perform for you and give you the terminal ballistics that you require for the task you've chosen the rifle for. Oh yeah and get rid of that scope for something better. I would definately be checking to make sure that the scope is not a problem!
Re: Newb With Questions
I agree with several of the above posts, if you test and tune a few different types of ammo, you're kind of on both ends of the spectrum w 150 and 180 grains, some 168 or 175 grain match ammo might quite possibly, do the trick.
Before you start throwing money at it with a new stock you may want to adjust the factory stock a bit. Set your rifle up on your sand bags or bipod as if you're going to shoot, take a dollar bill and run it between the barrel and stock, you should be able to run it all the way back to the action without interference, if you hit interference, mark that spot with a bit of masking tape, remove the stock and get busy with some sand paper or a dremmel to relieve the stock enough to allow the barrel to free float, but not enough to compromise the strength. repeat until you can run that bill all the way back. Bear in mind though that the barrel might smack the stock still when fired, but maybe not and if that's the case you just saved several hundred bucks, and either way, at least you tried.
Lastly, when you shoot your groups, I'm sure you're maintianing a consistent POA, but make sure to maintain your cheek weld between shots. moving your cheek weld just 1/4 inch forward or back can alter your POI. So if when you shoot, you pop your head up between shots you could quite possibly be moving that cheek weld between shots, and your groups won't stand a chance.
I agree with several of the above posts, if you test and tune a few different types of ammo, you're kind of on both ends of the spectrum w 150 and 180 grains, some 168 or 175 grain match ammo might quite possibly, do the trick.
Before you start throwing money at it with a new stock you may want to adjust the factory stock a bit. Set your rifle up on your sand bags or bipod as if you're going to shoot, take a dollar bill and run it between the barrel and stock, you should be able to run it all the way back to the action without interference, if you hit interference, mark that spot with a bit of masking tape, remove the stock and get busy with some sand paper or a dremmel to relieve the stock enough to allow the barrel to free float, but not enough to compromise the strength. repeat until you can run that bill all the way back. Bear in mind though that the barrel might smack the stock still when fired, but maybe not and if that's the case you just saved several hundred bucks, and either way, at least you tried.
Lastly, when you shoot your groups, I'm sure you're maintianing a consistent POA, but make sure to maintain your cheek weld between shots. moving your cheek weld just 1/4 inch forward or back can alter your POI. So if when you shoot, you pop your head up between shots you could quite possibly be moving that cheek weld between shots, and your groups won't stand a chance.
Re: Newb With Questions
The factory stock in terriable!!! Mine would flex under juns the weight of the barrel alone. I never even bothered to fire it in the factory stock. I changer out mine for a 700p take-off purchased here on the hide for a great price.
I did shhot the 180's you've mentioned with similat results. The groups were horriable and looked more like buck shot then annthing. I switched to the Southwest 175's and can consistantly hold groups the size of a dime now. I've actually gotten so use to shooting the groups I've started in on the 3/4" dot drills. Mine also likes the FGMM 168's, it does not like the Blackhills 168's however.
If your going to use it for hunting where you'll be forced to take the shots the good lord gives you, you'll want a better stock. And if you want it to group to it's potential your going to have to feed it the proper ammo.
J
The factory stock in terriable!!! Mine would flex under juns the weight of the barrel alone. I never even bothered to fire it in the factory stock. I changer out mine for a 700p take-off purchased here on the hide for a great price.
I did shhot the 180's you've mentioned with similat results. The groups were horriable and looked more like buck shot then annthing. I switched to the Southwest 175's and can consistantly hold groups the size of a dime now. I've actually gotten so use to shooting the groups I've started in on the 3/4" dot drills. Mine also likes the FGMM 168's, it does not like the Blackhills 168's however.
If your going to use it for hunting where you'll be forced to take the shots the good lord gives you, you'll want a better stock. And if you want it to group to it's potential your going to have to feed it the proper ammo.
J
Re: Newb With Questions
It could be the scope, not saying the one you have is bad but it could be better.
It could be the scope, not saying the one you have is bad but it could be better.
Re: Newb With Questions
My 700 does not group well with 155 Federal soft points or protected soft points. By not well I mean 2-2.5 inches at 100. With 175 SMK's my groups are usually less than 1 inch when shooting off of a bipod, bag and concrete bench. I think you will see similar results if you try match ammo. That is taking into consideration your scope, rings and base are mounted correctly and you are capable. I would start with seeking out the less expensive solutions.
For hunting ammo I have been eying Hornady. As I use more of their products I find that they are very consistent. That being said I have yet to develop a hunting load using their products. I think I may just buy a box of loaded ammo instead of developing one since I use maybe 3 hunting rounds a year.
My 700 does not group well with 155 Federal soft points or protected soft points. By not well I mean 2-2.5 inches at 100. With 175 SMK's my groups are usually less than 1 inch when shooting off of a bipod, bag and concrete bench. I think you will see similar results if you try match ammo. That is taking into consideration your scope, rings and base are mounted correctly and you are capable. I would start with seeking out the less expensive solutions.
For hunting ammo I have been eying Hornady. As I use more of their products I find that they are very consistent. That being said I have yet to develop a hunting load using their products. I think I may just buy a box of loaded ammo instead of developing one since I use maybe 3 hunting rounds a year.
Re: Newb With Questions
If the stock is touching the barrel when you have it rested, i am pretty sure those stocks are known for flexing at the end, try to bring the sand bag back near the action when shooting, and also use a rear bag. I have to do this with an old colt ar-15 sp1, as its barrel is not free floated. Just a thought if that is your issue. It makes it a bit more difficult at distance because the front of the rifle can move more, but at least your stock is not interfering
If the stock is touching the barrel when you have it rested, i am pretty sure those stocks are known for flexing at the end, try to bring the sand bag back near the action when shooting, and also use a rear bag. I have to do this with an old colt ar-15 sp1, as its barrel is not free floated. Just a thought if that is your issue. It makes it a bit more difficult at distance because the front of the rifle can move more, but at least your stock is not interfering
Re: Newb With Questions
have had this rifle and 1st of all it was picky w/ ammo, but mine liked the 165-168 grn ammo the most, try the amax bullet frm hornady.. its a match bullet that performs very well in the field hunting.. your stock may create stringing but i doubt it, usually this stock is usable and i could even get that sub 1" group out of the rifle, but... the best thing to do to replace the stock maybe go online and find a stock take off of a 5r or ltr on ebay or gunbroker, then think about that scope bushnell elite 3200, vortex viper, nikon buckmaster, basically anything but bsa( scope is strictly an opinion ) any specific ?'s pm me..
have had this rifle and 1st of all it was picky w/ ammo, but mine liked the 165-168 grn ammo the most, try the amax bullet frm hornady.. its a match bullet that performs very well in the field hunting.. your stock may create stringing but i doubt it, usually this stock is usable and i could even get that sub 1" group out of the rifle, but... the best thing to do to replace the stock maybe go online and find a stock take off of a 5r or ltr on ebay or gunbroker, then think about that scope bushnell elite 3200, vortex viper, nikon buckmaster, basically anything but bsa( scope is strictly an opinion ) any specific ?'s pm me..
Re: Newb With Questions
I will say that the 180 Win factory rounds are horrible and only reason I used them in my 308 win and 300 WM was to get me on paper with out using match ammo or reloads. Now I would go get a box of 168 Federal match ammo and see what the rifle does. If it does not shoot under an inch then get a better stock. B&C stock or HS will do perfectly.
Also what type of rings and base are you using ? This will also make a ton of difference. I have personal experience with this and will say spend a little extra for decent rings and base. The scope will do for now but it will eventually blow out and be of no use. So I would suggest that you start a piggy bank for all this fun stuff
By the way welcome here and I will say that anything you need answered can be answered here
Aron
I will say that the 180 Win factory rounds are horrible and only reason I used them in my 308 win and 300 WM was to get me on paper with out using match ammo or reloads. Now I would go get a box of 168 Federal match ammo and see what the rifle does. If it does not shoot under an inch then get a better stock. B&C stock or HS will do perfectly.
Also what type of rings and base are you using ? This will also make a ton of difference. I have personal experience with this and will say spend a little extra for decent rings and base. The scope will do for now but it will eventually blow out and be of no use. So I would suggest that you start a piggy bank for all this fun stuff
By the way welcome here and I will say that anything you need answered can be answered here
Aron
Re: Newb With Questions
I've figured it all out! It's because you got a remington....well flame on! What do you expect from a Savage guy? No really though a buddy has one similar and it loves 118LR military stuff. I shot it the other day with him and shot a 5 shot group under 1" at 100 with a rifle that strains my neck just to shoot. It would have been better, but I screwed up the first shot, which was just alittle ways from touching the other 4 that were all touching. The only other mod to his gun is a B&C stock, which helped his groups out some and made the rifle so much more comfortable. Now if I could just talk him into lowering his scope and moving it forward it would be perfect for me!
Really I think you need to experiment with ammo first and then look at a stock mod. At the very least your stock needs pillar bedded, which at that rate you should probably spend $200 and get a B&C or something. I'd say if you experiment and it doesn't get any better then it's time to change things on the rifle.
Also you might check and make sure that your barrel is not actually touching the stock anywhere. Just take a thin piece of paper and wrap it under the barrel and then slide it back to the reciever. If it doesn't hang up anywhere you're ok there. That's a simple trick to make sure the barrel is actually free floated and you'd be surprised what a small amount of pressue on a barrel can produce down range!
I've figured it all out! It's because you got a remington....well flame on! What do you expect from a Savage guy? No really though a buddy has one similar and it loves 118LR military stuff. I shot it the other day with him and shot a 5 shot group under 1" at 100 with a rifle that strains my neck just to shoot. It would have been better, but I screwed up the first shot, which was just alittle ways from touching the other 4 that were all touching. The only other mod to his gun is a B&C stock, which helped his groups out some and made the rifle so much more comfortable. Now if I could just talk him into lowering his scope and moving it forward it would be perfect for me!
Really I think you need to experiment with ammo first and then look at a stock mod. At the very least your stock needs pillar bedded, which at that rate you should probably spend $200 and get a B&C or something. I'd say if you experiment and it doesn't get any better then it's time to change things on the rifle.
Also you might check and make sure that your barrel is not actually touching the stock anywhere. Just take a thin piece of paper and wrap it under the barrel and then slide it back to the reciever. If it doesn't hang up anywhere you're ok there. That's a simple trick to make sure the barrel is actually free floated and you'd be surprised what a small amount of pressue on a barrel can produce down range!
Re: Newb With Questions
Maybe I'm getting salty early. 150 gr federals? 180 gr federals? boat tails, soft points, protected soft points? I'm gonna leave this alone and use the search function and read more than post.
My .02
Maybe I'm getting salty early. 150 gr federals? 180 gr federals? boat tails, soft points, protected soft points? I'm gonna leave this alone and use the search function and read more than post.
My .02
Re: Newb With Questions
What's the twist rate on your barrel? That's suspect for the reason the heavier bullets got worse.
What's the twist rate on your barrel? That's suspect for the reason the heavier bullets got worse.
