Newbie Scope Advice needed

[colt.45]

I'm wondering what are some good options for me to get started in long-range shooting. Using a 308, I would like to know what people recommend in regards to reticles, mag. power, mag. range, parallax adjustment, among other things. I've done as much research as I can up to this point so I'm just going to list some things I think I know and some questions, and y'all can just correct me or add your .2 if you feel the need. Hoping to get out to the max effective range of the 308/7.62x51 nato. Mostly using factory hunting loads, a decent amount of bulk ammo for plinking/practice, and occasionally match grade when I can find good prices. 1 MOA avg is fine for me.

-As I understand it, the super high end/$$$$ scopes cost that amount due to the accuracy and consistency of the work that goes into making the adjustments as mathematically perfect as possible, as well as glass quality and some other things like mag. range. (but for example: S&B PMII is like $3,800, but only goes from 3-12). Whereas, the more affordable scopes gear their appeal towards reticles and holdover methods of ranging?

-Is it better to have a few decent scopes that each serve a distinct purpose, or get a really nice one that 'does it all'?

-what system (reticle vs dialing) would be better for me to learn ballistics, wind calls, and ranging on?

-what system is best for quickly switching between targets of varying range?- for example starting with 350, 600, 200, 750, then 100

-how important is my decision on focal plane?

note:
-budget is between 600-2000$ with flexibility, meaning I'm willing to go a little above or below if its the right decision.
-I will be getting a 6.5 cm barrel/rifle in the future, so please don't tell me to 'skip' the 308. I like the cartridge and shooting it keeps my fundamentals in check
-weight is of no concern to me
-don't wanna go above 4x for my bottom range, don't know what max power I need
-for reference, I've been learning on a $200 Nikon prostaff 3.9 BDC with my Ruger American 270, which has allowed me to get out to 500 yds pretty easily, with 130 grain factory hunting rounds (remington core-lokt, federal powershok, herters, winchester super x)- I'm not a snob when it comes to optics, but I'm ready and willing to make a big investment

 

[CarbonMTN]

-Is it better to have a few decent scopes that each serve a distinct purpose, or get a really nice one that 'does it all'? like a few scopes for one rifle that you're going to change out for the occasion? If you have a PRS rifle = PRS idea scope, if its hunting on mind, than one that might be more tailored to hunting? But a MK5 3.6-18 can do anything.

-what system (reticle vs dialing) would be better for me to learn ballistics, wind calls, and ranging on? I hate a busy scope. reminds me of a tree, just an obstacle in my way. Leupold MK5 perfect!

-what system is best for quickly switching between targets of varying range?- for example starting with 350, 600, 200, 750, then 100. DOPE. But if I am shooting my 223 out past 500 yards, I'll dial then do hold overs to walk it in.

-how important is my decision on focal plane? I've got them both. I prefer 2nd on my 22lr as the crosshair are thinner and I am able to see better because I'm not being imaged blocked.

note:
-budget is between 600-2000$ with flexibility, meaning I'm willing to go a little above or below if its the right decision.
-I will be getting a 6.5 cm barrel/rifle in the future, so please don't tell me to 'skip' the 308. I like the cartridge and shooting it keeps my fundamentals in check
-weight is of no concern to me
-don't wanna go above 4x for my bottom range, don't know what max power I need
-for reference, I've been learning on a $200 Nikon prostaff 3.9 BDC with my Ruger American 270, which has allowed me to get out to 500 yds pretty easily, with 130 grain factory hunting rounds (remington core-lokt, federal powershok, herters, winchester super x)- I'm not a snob when it comes to optics, but I'm ready and willing to make a big investment

A scope it just a tool that helps... If you're skill level is subpar, than a $10k scope wont help, first and foremost.

I've got 7 bolt rifles. 4 of them (3x 22lr and a 17hmr) have cheap Vortex's on then (Strike Eagle 4-24, PST 1-4, and a Diamond back 6-24) One has a Redfield 3-9 and the my baby has a Leupold MK5 3.6-18.

I first stuck with the cheaper Vortex's to learn the basics and honestly there is nothing wrong with them, till you know what/where you want to spend your money on. I know plenty of people who shoot PRS matches with more "affordable" things to just get going till they know they want to commit major MOOLA into the sport.

I LOVE my Leupold MK5 3.6-18, its on my Tikka 223 and the 18x is more than enough to let me see my targets out at 1000 yards and make the shot. Wish I could afford another one to put on my CZ 457 trainer.

 

[colt.45]

A scope it just a tool that helps... If you're skill level is subpar, than a $10k scope wont help, first and foremost.

I've got 7 bolt rifles. 4 of them (3x 22lr and a 17hmr) have cheap Vortex's on then (Strike Eagle 4-24, PST 1-4, and a Diamond back 6-24) One has a Redfield 3-9 and the my baby has a Leupold MK5 3.6-18.

I first stuck with the cheaper Vortex's to learn the basics and honestly there is nothing wrong with them, till you know what/where you want to spend your money on. I know plenty of people who shoot PRS matches with more "affordable" things to just get going till they know they want to commit major MOOLA into the sport.

I LOVE my Leupold MK5 3.6-18, its on my Tikka 223 and the 18x is more than enough to let me see my targets out at 1000 yards and make the shot. Wish I could afford another one to put on my CZ 457 trainer.

Interesting. although the MK 5 is out of my budget, I may be able to justify going above my budget if it means I won't have to buy another scope for a long time, or I can easily swap it to other rifles and calibers such as 300 wm, 338, 223, 6.5, 7mm, etc. However, I might be shooting myself in the foot with that philosophy. When you say the MK 5 can do anything, does that mean you'd be okay with only having that scope and swapping it between your 7 guns? Would that be cumbersome? I know mounting scopes is time consuming and delicate and then ofc the wasted ammo everytime you have to re-zero

 

[kyzim311]

You can get a scope that is more than serviceable out to 1000 yards for less that $1000. I would spend you money on trigger time more than the scope. If you can afford lots of trigger time and really good glass, get both.

I have yet to find a complete do it all scope that will work for every situation. I have a scope for each rifle so I am not constantly sighting rifle in, and I usually spend about 1/2 of the price of my rifle on the scope but that is not a rule. You can spend more or less, just what I do. Scopes that are good for target shooting tend to be heavy, have exposed turrets, 30+mm tubes, and a high magnification range. Hunting scopes usually need to be light, have covered or locking turrets to prevent bumps, and need to have a low enough magnification range for shooting close. Not much overlap.

As far as focal plane, it matters a lot less than some would say for what most people do. I prefer a second focal plane for target shooting as my center aiming point is always precise and easy to see. I have time to dial or figure out my wind hold. For a field type competition environment (PRS), first focal plane makes more sense for quick hold offs in reticle at various magnification levels. Disadvantage is the reticles tend to be slightly less precise (thicker crosshair) on max magnification. I prefer second focal plane, but that is what I am used to and I am not on a clock.

For dialing vs holding, I dial elevation and hold wind. Wind can change a lot in just a couple minutes, elevation will not change significantly. I can adapt to the wind changes quickly in reticle while using the same elevation hold for all shots at the same range. It doesn't take long to adjust your elevation for different ranges if you have good turrets. If you were on the clock shooting targets at multiple ranges, holding for both makes more sense.

 

[CarbonMTN]

Interesting. although the MK 5 is out of my budget, I may be able to justify going above my budget if it means I won't have to buy another scope for a long time, or I can easily swap it to other rifles and calibers such as 300 wm, 338, 223, 6.5, 7mm, etc. However, I might be shooting myself in the foot with that philosophy. When you say the MK 5 can do anything, does that mean you'd be okay with only having that scope and swapping it between your 7 guns? Would that be cumbersome? I know mounting scopes is time consuming and delicate and then ofc the wasted ammo everytime you have to re-zero

Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44mm Rifle Scope, 35 mm Tube, First Focal Plane, Black, Matte, Non-Illuminated PR1-MOA Reticle, MOA Adjustment, 176445 — Objective Lens Diameter: 44 mm, Magnification: 3.6 - 18 x, Reticle: PR1-MOA, Tube Diameter: 35 mm

Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44mm Rifle Scope, 35 mm Tube, First Focal — Objective Lens Diameter: 44 mm, Magnification: 3.6 - 18 x, Reticle: PR1-MOA, Tube Diameter: 35 mm

www.opticsplanet.com

Unless I am upgrading or selling a rifle the scope tends to stay with the rifle I mount it to. I don't want to have to re zero a scope every time I change rifles. waste of ammo and time....

 

[DaChank]

I have a nightforce shv f1 it’s not too pricy and I like it. I also move it between 2 rifles and the zero is pretty spot on once you know the offset.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

As far as versatility goes, it's hard to find a true multi purpose scope. BUT there are a few that comes close for my purposes:

-I recently bought and hunted with a March 3-24x56 and loved it for the size and glass but the eye box was still a little too finicky for me. Lots of distortion around the edges without a r consistent cheek weld. Not awful but not ideal for me.

-The NX8 4-32 I had and compared the March too was much better (although others say that's the same gripe with it too). It has better glass for my eyes too. It wasn't that much bigger of an optic at all and would certainly fit well with a hunting or match rifle. The mag range serves it well in versatility.

I here others say the AMG is a great option too around the 2k mark.

All this is assuming your ready to make that kind of investment into all this. As others mentioned, glass won't make you a better shooter. But usually these scopes won't leave you guessing about tracking or reliability. These options are pretty versatile.

 

[colt.45]

As far as versatility goes, it's hard to find a true multi purpose scope. BUT there are a few that comes close for my purposes:

-I recently bought and hunted with a March 3-24x56 and loved it for the size and glass but the eye box was still a little too finicky for me. Lots of distortion around the edges without a r consistent cheek weld. Not awful but not ideal for me.

-The NX8 4-32 I had and compared the March too was much better (although others say that's the same gripe with it too). It has better glass for my eyes too. It wasn't that much bigger of an optic at all and would certainly fit well with a hunting or match rifle. The mag range serves it well in versatility.

I here others say the AMG is a great option too around the 2k mark.

All this is assuming your ready to make that kind of investment into all this. As others mentioned, glass won't make you a better shooter. But usually these scopes won't leave you guessing about tracking or reliability. These options are pretty versatile.

when you say the magnification range is versatile, what does that mean for shooting 308? Do I need more than 14 to see my targets out to 1000 yards? Its been so long since I've been to the range that forget what 9 power looks like. I remember that I could see my targets well enough out to about 500. Granted they were easily marked. Basically one of the main things I'm wondering is if I should have a dedicated ELR scope for when get my first 6.5 or 300 wm and want to do that type of shooting? For more practical use, I'm wondering if paying an extra 500-1000$ is worth getting a 5-25 vs a 4-16 ATACR. I don't like the idea of swapping scopes between rifles, but at the same time I don't think I can afford really nice glass on more than one. I just want to be able to shoot like a sniper does and quickly dial/hold between targets without being limited by my current BDC. To be fair, that thing is awesome when switching between targets from 100-300, don't need to make any adjustments and simply use the cross hair.

 

[EscapeVelocity]

I mean it's versatile in different uses, not caliber specific (hunting VS long range target shooting for example).
To see and shoot 1000 yards, you really don't need very high end magnification. I've shot matches on 12-14 power before when mirage is really bad.
Honestly just find a really good deal on a Bushnell dmr2 or a LRTS with that low end mag your looking for. They have a very user friendly reticle for hold overs and they track really reliably should you dial. Then you could afford to get 2 for a couple rifles. Or start out with one to see if you like it first.

 

[kyzim311]

Another option to consider that tries to fill the role for a bit less money than some of the other recommendations is the vortex razor lht. I have the older lh and have shot it to 1000, light and good glass for the money.

 

[colt.45]

So to anyone still on this thread, I have spent some time looking and have my options narrow down between NF, Leupold, Zeiss, eotech, Khales, & Vortex. I know you're thinking that's still a huge list and it is. But I didn't want to leave anything off the table for my first nice scope purchase.

That list I made was in order with the first 3 being my first choices in order, and so on. I only found one Khales that I liked it was the 624i 6-24 (really annoying when companies use alphanumeric codes for models). I was into vortex a lot for the value proposition but couldn't find any with a good reticle, so that's not really on my list anymore. I kind of like the Vudu. Zeiss had a lot of good options at good prices and with great reticles, so def still on the table. Leupold just as well, especially now that the Mark 5 is on sale. But my favorite so far, (as well as the only NF I can afford) are the NX8 line, in either 2.5-20 or 4-32. Both amazing mag ranges and makes me wonder how they are so cheap compared to others in that range. Europtic had a handful of the NX8s with both the Tremor and the MOAR reticles that I liked the most, all on sale as "demo" models between 1800-2200$. If I had to pick right now it would be one of those two NFs. Neither are FFP I believe. 2.5-20 would be awesome for hunting, but honestly I've shot at targets under 50 yards on 3-4 power with no issue at all, so that extra 12 power could be a huge advantage going out to 1000 yards and beyond.

I was only on europotic (I find the optics planet website insufferable to use) so that may have limited my options to some part, but I could not find any Steiners or S&Bs in my budget. I may consider a used one if it really speaks to me, but the other problem was reticles. I really do not like a reticle with any red color on it. For precision and focus it just bothers my eyes. More to that, I like a more simple reticle that doesn't have too much "stuff" in the way of my target. For this reason, I don't really mind the "Christmas tree" reticles I see on NF because at low power FFP they are so thin that it actually helps draw my eye to the center by creating what really looks like a transparent shade of a tree on low power, combined with no verticle crosshair above the center, which I also prefer (vintage german style). It allows me to draw my eye to my target from bottom to top, the natural way my eye likes to. So seeing that most the options in my price point with those brands did not provide reticles I could tolerate, it helped me narrow down further (unless I can find better reticles on another website).

 

[NavyshooterM40]

You might look at the top end Bushnell’s, Midway had them on sale. They have a great record for tracking and I think the glass is pretty darn good for the money.

 

[Harman117]

FYI: You posted this on the bolt action forum section, and there is a separate "optics" part where scopes and other related things are discussed.

 

[colt.45]

FYI: You posted this on the bolt action forum section, and there is a separate "optics" part where scopes and other related things are discussed.

yep, I also posted it there, I just accidentally posted it here first, and the site doesn't offer a way to delete threads so there was nothing I could do