F T/R Competition Nifty feet on bipod
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Re: Nifty feet on bipod
...for use in hurricane wind conditions i guess ?? lol
...for use in hurricane wind conditions i guess ?? lol
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
I swear I read rules somewhere once that prohibited spikes but I can't find it now.
I know there has been discussion of claw feet in the past for F-class.
They do look funky.
I swear I read rules somewhere once that prohibited spikes but I can't find it now.
I know there has been discussion of claw feet in the past for F-class.
They do look funky.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
The spikes referenced the F-Open front rests. I can't recall any regulation on spikes for an FTR bipod. From my expereience, you want the bipod to recoil smoothly and without torque. This setup, in my opinion, has the potential to add uneven torque and thus a different and unnatural recoil pattern with each shot. They look different, but I'll pass.
The spikes referenced the F-Open front rests. I can't recall any regulation on spikes for an FTR bipod. From my expereience, you want the bipod to recoil smoothly and without torque. This setup, in my opinion, has the potential to add uneven torque and thus a different and unnatural recoil pattern with each shot. They look different, but I'll pass.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The spikes referenced the F-Open front rests.
.
.
...</div></div>
That must be what I remember.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The spikes referenced the F-Open front rests.
.
.
...</div></div>
That must be what I remember.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The spikes referenced the F-Open front rests. I can't recall any regulation on spikes for an FTR bipod. From my expereience, you want the bipod to recoil smoothly and without torque. This setup, in my opinion, has the potential to add uneven torque and thus a different and unnatural recoil pattern with each shot. They look different, but I'll pass. </div></div>
I think the rule for F-open the that the spikes on the rest can't protrude more than 2 1/2 inches. It's been a bit since I have read the rules.
KT
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The spikes referenced the F-Open front rests. I can't recall any regulation on spikes for an FTR bipod. From my expereience, you want the bipod to recoil smoothly and without torque. This setup, in my opinion, has the potential to add uneven torque and thus a different and unnatural recoil pattern with each shot. They look different, but I'll pass. </div></div>
I think the rule for F-open the that the spikes on the rest can't protrude more than 2 1/2 inches. It's been a bit since I have read the rules.
KT
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I swear I read rules somewhere once that prohibited spikes but I can't find it now.
I know there has been discussion of claw feet in the past for F-class.
They do look funky.
</div></div>
I'd really to know the definitive answer to this as well. For those like myself that prefer to load the bipod, spikes or claws might be useful. However, it seems as though their use could be interpreted as a mechanical method for returning the rifle to its precise point of aim as mentioned in the rules below.
F-Class Target Rifle (F-TR) Rests - A bipod and/or sling are the only allowed front supports for the F-TR
rifle. <span style="color: #FF0000">The rifle may be supported by a bipod and/or sling and a rear support which provide no positive
mechanical method for returning it to its precise point of aim for the prior shot.</span>
Subject to:
(1) The bipod and/or sling and rear support may not be attached to each other.
(2) The use of any form of a table is prohibited. Separate flat boards or plates not exceeding the
dimensions of the individual rests by two inches are allowed to be placed under the front and/or rear
rests. In the case of a bipod, the board or plate may not exceed the width of the bipod by 2", nor be
more than 12" front to rear. See Rule 3.4.1(a)(1).
No leveling screws or protrusions are allowed on these boards or plates. They must be flat on the top
and bottom.
This discipline is a modification of high power prone shooting, not a form of bench rest and should not
be construed as such.
Disabled competitors may apply to the NRA Protest Committee for appropriate dispensation.
The intent of this rule is to prevent the use of a table type device.
(3) A bipod is a device with no more than two legs that touch the firing point. It must be rigidly attached to
the forend of the rifle. The bipod may have rigid or folding legs, and may be adjustable to compensate
for the uneven surface of the firing point.
(4) No portion of the rifle’s butt or forend shall rest directly on the ground or any hard surface. A rear
rabbit eared bag, small sandbag or a gloved hand may be used to support the rifle’s butt. Any rear support employed shall not be attached, clamped or held to the rifle in any manner. The rear support may not be fixed to or protrude into the firing point. Mechanically adjustable rear support is not
allowed.
(5) Any number or type of objects may be placed beneath the bipod or rear support, to compensate for
variations in height or slope of the firing point.
(6) The bipod and rear rest may be adjusted after any shot to compensate for rest movement or settling.
A sling may be used in conjunction with the rest(s), but its weight will be included in the rifle’s overall
weight (Rule 3.4.(b)).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I swear I read rules somewhere once that prohibited spikes but I can't find it now.
I know there has been discussion of claw feet in the past for F-class.
They do look funky.
</div></div>
I'd really to know the definitive answer to this as well. For those like myself that prefer to load the bipod, spikes or claws might be useful. However, it seems as though their use could be interpreted as a mechanical method for returning the rifle to its precise point of aim as mentioned in the rules below.
F-Class Target Rifle (F-TR) Rests - A bipod and/or sling are the only allowed front supports for the F-TR
rifle. <span style="color: #FF0000">The rifle may be supported by a bipod and/or sling and a rear support which provide no positive
mechanical method for returning it to its precise point of aim for the prior shot.</span>
Subject to:
(1) The bipod and/or sling and rear support may not be attached to each other.
(2) The use of any form of a table is prohibited. Separate flat boards or plates not exceeding the
dimensions of the individual rests by two inches are allowed to be placed under the front and/or rear
rests. In the case of a bipod, the board or plate may not exceed the width of the bipod by 2", nor be
more than 12" front to rear. See Rule 3.4.1(a)(1).
No leveling screws or protrusions are allowed on these boards or plates. They must be flat on the top
and bottom.
This discipline is a modification of high power prone shooting, not a form of bench rest and should not
be construed as such.
Disabled competitors may apply to the NRA Protest Committee for appropriate dispensation.
The intent of this rule is to prevent the use of a table type device.
(3) A bipod is a device with no more than two legs that touch the firing point. It must be rigidly attached to
the forend of the rifle. The bipod may have rigid or folding legs, and may be adjustable to compensate
for the uneven surface of the firing point.
(4) No portion of the rifle’s butt or forend shall rest directly on the ground or any hard surface. A rear
rabbit eared bag, small sandbag or a gloved hand may be used to support the rifle’s butt. Any rear support employed shall not be attached, clamped or held to the rifle in any manner. The rear support may not be fixed to or protrude into the firing point. Mechanically adjustable rear support is not
allowed.
(5) Any number or type of objects may be placed beneath the bipod or rear support, to compensate for
variations in height or slope of the firing point.
(6) The bipod and rear rest may be adjusted after any shot to compensate for rest movement or settling.
A sling may be used in conjunction with the rest(s), but its weight will be included in the rifle’s overall
weight (Rule 3.4.(b)).
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The spikes referenced the F-Open front rests. I can't recall any regulation on spikes for an FTR bipod. From my expereience, you want the bipod to recoil smoothly and without torque. This setup, in my opinion, has the potential to add uneven torque and thus a different and unnatural recoil pattern with each shot. They look different, but I'll pass. </div></div>
Buzzkill. You National Team F/TR record setters are all alike.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The spikes referenced the F-Open front rests. I can't recall any regulation on spikes for an FTR bipod. From my expereience, you want the bipod to recoil smoothly and without torque. This setup, in my opinion, has the potential to add uneven torque and thus a different and unnatural recoil pattern with each shot. They look different, but I'll pass. </div></div>
Buzzkill. You National Team F/TR record setters are all alike.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
Interesting......I think......???
Interesting......I think......???
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
TwoGun-
Try it and see what you think. I would love to see my competitors try it out!
TwoGun-
Try it and see what you think. I would love to see my competitors try it out!
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
Wow...
Wow...
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
that would make a heck of a back scratcher for sure!
that would make a heck of a back scratcher for sure!
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
Think in terms of an unlimited rail gun used in benchrest...
Those claw thingamagiggys wont return the rifle to a precise aiming point. If they did you would be able to load and fire as quickly as possible without re-aiming between shots.
Think in terms of an unlimited rail gun used in benchrest...
Those claw thingamagiggys wont return the rifle to a precise aiming point. If they did you would be able to load and fire as quickly as possible without re-aiming between shots.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
To be honest, I wasn't really thinking about the claw feet thingies. Rather, I had the Atlas spikes in mind. After reading usftr's reply, I ordered a pair this afternoon. I've been thinking about getting some since Kasey introduced them not too long ago. However, I wasn't sure if they'd be legal for F-Class or not. What the hey, I'll use them in my next match. If there's a problem, I'll have the rubber feet with, so no worries.
If you don't load the bipod, obviously anything along those lines would be less than worthless, and probably an impediment. However, I do, so I'd like to give the Atlas spikes a try. If they don't work out for shooting, I can always put them on the end of a stick and have a great pigsticker, right?
To be honest, I wasn't really thinking about the claw feet thingies. Rather, I had the Atlas spikes in mind. After reading usftr's reply, I ordered a pair this afternoon. I've been thinking about getting some since Kasey introduced them not too long ago. However, I wasn't sure if they'd be legal for F-Class or not. What the hey, I'll use them in my next match. If there's a problem, I'll have the rubber feet with, so no worries.
If you don't load the bipod, obviously anything along those lines would be less than worthless, and probably an impediment. However, I do, so I'd like to give the Atlas spikes a try. If they don't work out for shooting, I can always put them on the end of a stick and have a great pigsticker, right?
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
A guy had these feet at the F Class match at Forbes club last Sunday. He was picking up his gear and the slung rifle had the claws about 4" away from the back of his head, on the folded bipod.
A guy had these feet at the F Class match at Forbes club last Sunday. He was picking up his gear and the slung rifle had the claws about 4" away from the back of his head, on the folded bipod.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
those things dont look remotely stable, if one side sticks more than the other it seems it would create a type of whip in the recoil to one side or the other.
those things dont look remotely stable, if one side sticks more than the other it seems it would create a type of whip in the recoil to one side or the other.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TwoGun-
Try it and see what you think. I would love to see my competitors try it out! </div></div>
No thanks. I've always been more accurate with a gun that has freedom. Every gimmick I've tried to stabilize a gun has never worked and I've tried a bunch as I'm sure many have. I can't see those working either.
I was being sarcastic since I would consider you an expert on the subject. But hey, not every expert is an innovator either. And those may have an application but I doubt it would be for holding 1/2 MOA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usftr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TwoGun-
Try it and see what you think. I would love to see my competitors try it out! </div></div>
No thanks. I've always been more accurate with a gun that has freedom. Every gimmick I've tried to stabilize a gun has never worked and I've tried a bunch as I'm sure many have. I can't see those working either.
I was being sarcastic since I would consider you an expert on the subject. But hey, not every expert is an innovator either. And those may have an application but I doubt it would be for holding 1/2 MOA.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
Any of these feet would help with looser dirt or gravel. At my range, in some of the stalls, there might be two inches of gravel before you hit solid ground. Not sure about the dragon claws but I think Triggers29 might work well.
Any of these feet would help with looser dirt or gravel. At my range, in some of the stalls, there might be two inches of gravel before you hit solid ground. Not sure about the dragon claws but I think Triggers29 might work well.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
TwoGun- I'm also being sarcastic. I have seen other similar concepts and people seem to drop them quickly. I just learn from them and don't make the same mistake.
jwf100p- For loose stuff like you describe, I use very low pile carpet. It gives just the right amount of friction for the bipod for my taste. Something is needed at ranges like Raton or Sacramento.
TwoGun- I'm also being sarcastic. I have seen other similar concepts and people seem to drop them quickly. I just learn from them and don't make the same mistake.
jwf100p- For loose stuff like you describe, I use very low pile carpet. It gives just the right amount of friction for the bipod for my taste. Something is needed at ranges like Raton or Sacramento.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
I'd say these won't be around long.....they don't conform to the FO or F/TR Rules for either a Rest or a Bi Pod.
FO is allowed a total of 3 spiked feet per Rest:
F/TR lists a Bi Pod as having 2 contact points with the Firing Line:
I understand the NRA is in the process of reviewing a complaint about the use.
I'd say these won't be around long.....they don't conform to the FO or F/TR Rules for either a Rest or a Bi Pod.
FO is allowed a total of 3 spiked feet per Rest:
F/TR lists a Bi Pod as having 2 contact points with the Firing Line:
I understand the NRA is in the process of reviewing a complaint about the use.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Taildrag15X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd say these won't be around long.....they don't conform to the FO or F/TR Rules for either a Rest or a Bi Pod.
FO is allowed a total of 3 spiked feet per Rest:
<span style="color: #FF0000">
F/TR lists a Bi Pod as having 2 contact points with the Firing Line:</span>
I understand the NRA is in the process of reviewing a complaint about the use. </div></div>
True, but unless they define more specifically what a "contact point" is, there will still be an issue with legality for singly pointed spikes. IMO, a single pointed spike would fit the description of a "contact point". Until or unless the definition becomes more specific, I rather suspect decisions as to their legality will left to the local officials running a match to sort out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Taildrag15X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd say these won't be around long.....they don't conform to the FO or F/TR Rules for either a Rest or a Bi Pod.
FO is allowed a total of 3 spiked feet per Rest:
<span style="color: #FF0000">
F/TR lists a Bi Pod as having 2 contact points with the Firing Line:</span>
I understand the NRA is in the process of reviewing a complaint about the use. </div></div>
True, but unless they define more specifically what a "contact point" is, there will still be an issue with legality for singly pointed spikes. IMO, a single pointed spike would fit the description of a "contact point". Until or unless the definition becomes more specific, I rather suspect decisions as to their legality will left to the local officials running a match to sort out.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
Wow guys, is this how you treat a new idea? Let me introduce myself, I'm the guy that makes these and i joined the forum just to chime in. A few things I would like to clarify:
1. I simpy wanted to share a new idea and maybe make some pocket change. Not trying to get rich here just expand the horizon.
2. currently they are f-open legal. This is not a rest with spikes. it is a bi-pod with two points of contact (two feet) with up to 3 2" spikes. It does not return the gun to its original point of impact but rather reduces movement after the first shot.I just shot a 800,900,and 1000 yd match (f-open) scored a 147.147,144 respectively with some of the best shooters in the world. Including the match director from two different clubs. No one mentioned a thing about legality or conflicts. Everyone was as nice as pie and liked what they saw.
3. It does look "odd" just like the first combustion engine or airplain. I made it to work and make a statement, hense, "Dragon Claws".
4. It reduces recoil from large recoiling guns (forget about f-class for a moment, if you shoot a 300 win mag or 338 Lapua etc. these will become your best friend!
5. I like the photos above of the ones a fellow member carved out of solid stock stating "it only takes time". I bet he will not sell them for $50??? And they will tear up the grass and move more than the Dragon Claws. I still like them though, nice work bud!
6. If you have a better idea and need a guy to put it together give me a call.
Wow guys, is this how you treat a new idea? Let me introduce myself, I'm the guy that makes these and i joined the forum just to chime in. A few things I would like to clarify:
1. I simpy wanted to share a new idea and maybe make some pocket change. Not trying to get rich here just expand the horizon.
2. currently they are f-open legal. This is not a rest with spikes. it is a bi-pod with two points of contact (two feet) with up to 3 2" spikes. It does not return the gun to its original point of impact but rather reduces movement after the first shot.I just shot a 800,900,and 1000 yd match (f-open) scored a 147.147,144 respectively with some of the best shooters in the world. Including the match director from two different clubs. No one mentioned a thing about legality or conflicts. Everyone was as nice as pie and liked what they saw.
3. It does look "odd" just like the first combustion engine or airplain. I made it to work and make a statement, hense, "Dragon Claws".
4. It reduces recoil from large recoiling guns (forget about f-class for a moment, if you shoot a 300 win mag or 338 Lapua etc. these will become your best friend!
5. I like the photos above of the ones a fellow member carved out of solid stock stating "it only takes time". I bet he will not sell them for $50??? And they will tear up the grass and move more than the Dragon Claws. I still like them though, nice work bud!
6. If you have a better idea and need a guy to put it together give me a call.
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: favload</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow guys, is this how you treat a new idea? Let me introduce myself, I'm the guy that makes these and i joined the forum just to chime in. A few things I would like to clarify:</div></div>
If they are allowed by rule and they provide improvement very cool. They actually look kind of cool once you get used to them.
Aside from that keep thinking outside the box, coming up with new ideas. Unlike how dude putting .22's in airsoft chassis's was received, this is one that actually has a place and could benefit precision competition shooters
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: favload</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow guys, is this how you treat a new idea? Let me introduce myself, I'm the guy that makes these and i joined the forum just to chime in. A few things I would like to clarify:</div></div>
If they are allowed by rule and they provide improvement very cool. They actually look kind of cool once you get used to them.
Aside from that keep thinking outside the box, coming up with new ideas. Unlike how dude putting .22's in airsoft chassis's was received, this is one that actually has a place and could benefit precision competition shooters
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
Regarding one of the earlier questions about whether spikes are/were allowed for F/TR... my recollection is that the early versions of the rules *did* specify spikes up to 2", for F/TR and F/Open. Somewhere along the line that language 'disappeared' from the rules... and the NRA HP Committee doesn't exactly follow any sort of change-tracking process that I've ever seen that would allow you to know when or how things changed. Old editions just vanish...
As far as usage... Most of the F/TR guys I shoot with go for some sort of setup that is more or less consistent regardless what surface they happen to be shooting off of. If your home 'field' has a surface compatible with these claws... I imagine they'd work pretty slick. On other stuff... not so much.
Interesting idea, at any rate. Kudos for taking an idea (spiked feet) and giving it some flair
Regarding one of the earlier questions about whether spikes are/were allowed for F/TR... my recollection is that the early versions of the rules *did* specify spikes up to 2", for F/TR and F/Open. Somewhere along the line that language 'disappeared' from the rules... and the NRA HP Committee doesn't exactly follow any sort of change-tracking process that I've ever seen that would allow you to know when or how things changed. Old editions just vanish...
As far as usage... Most of the F/TR guys I shoot with go for some sort of setup that is more or less consistent regardless what surface they happen to be shooting off of. If your home 'field' has a surface compatible with these claws... I imagine they'd work pretty slick. On other stuff... not so much.
Interesting idea, at any rate. Kudos for taking an idea (spiked feet) and giving it some flair
Re: Nifty feet on bipod
i use the phoenix pod claws on my bipod and they grab very well. theyve even quoted me once or twice from this forum when i said," the more use shoot, the better they grab".
i use the phoenix pod claws on my bipod and they grab very well. theyve even quoted me once or twice from this forum when i said," the more use shoot, the better they grab".
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