Rifle Scopes Nightforce Alternative

[savage110]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok that makes plenty of sense. 2400 dollar assuming its an F1 but lets be done with the problem and spend excess of 3K. Makes sense, remember Felipe everything breaks no matter how good it is </div></div>

No need to be an ass bro, I'm just saying, you hear problems w/ top scopes maybe .001% of the time, how many millions of nightforces are there out there compared to how many complaints? not that many, (nightforces are excellent) every scope manufacturer is going to have problems and people always find an excuse, "oh its cause its a jap scope", maybe they just got a lemon? I mentioned the hensolt because have never heard a complaint on them, now from 2400$ to 3100$ is not that big of a diff. if you have 2.5k on a scope you should be able to save up another few hundred.
That's just my opinion though. I personally would stick w/ nightforce but some people judge the book by its cover, like the quality of one scope is the quality of all of them.
-Felipe

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

Felipe, my whole comment was to say that everything breaks just because its a Hensoldt doesnt prevent it from breaking. I was also going with NFs most expensive scope they make, im assuming that the OP has a NXS probably 5.5-22x56 which run around 1600+. So the difference of give or take 1K dollars is a big deal. Im not to sure i was being an ass, if you thought that comment was harsh best of luck but, Just because you havent heard any complaints from Hensoldt doesnt mean they are problem free, take a poll of the 30 thousand plus members on here, how many you think have Hensoldts? Maybe 20-30 people.

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

<span style="color: #FF0000">head2h2o</span>

Nightforce alternatives

Here's the problem. There are lots of alternatives. Some guys buy a high end scope and it never fails them. All the sudden brand X is the best scope ever made. Something gets in our heads when we have a personnal failure on a scope. I am guilty of this too which is why to this day i will not buy a Leupold. But, something to consider, you buy a USO and it fails so you buy a S&B and it fails so you buy a Hendsoldt and IT fails. Now what? EVERYTHING MECHANICAL CAN AND WILL FAIL!

If you were unlucky enough to have a rare failure and you have lost faith in NF then try something else but you may find you are chasing a pot of gold that doesnt exist. If i had a NF fail i would not hesitate to buy another. I went USO only for the features but if it fails i will get it fixed and continue. The lack of more than 10moa per revolution and a rotating eyepiece are the only reasons i moved on from NF.

i say if the NF has everything you want, try to overcome the mental reservations and move on. Or you could sell it and buy another NF that you know is new and without defect.

 

[scotharr]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everything made in Japan is crap. Lexus, Infiniti, Sony, Nikon...

An interesting statistic I came across some time ago is that Mercedes spends more time in final inspection fixing production line errors than Lexus does building the entire car - and the Lexus has fewer problems after delivery.

Yeah, just more Japanese crap.
</div></div>

Lol, ya Kowa scopes, March scopes, Toyota, Honda, Nikon, Canon, blah blah blah.....all Japanese crap. Too bad many American companies can't make crap like them anymore.

 

[hunter223]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adam boynton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as far as I am concerned saying that something made in Japan is sub par is just pure ignorance. I have owned S&B, USO, NF, Leupold, Viper, etc, all scope have been great. When you get to a certain price point it really comes down to personal preference and there is not a damn thing wrong with Japanese products. I am running a few of the Viper Razor scope right now and they are on the same level if not better than the S&B I have owned. Also before anyone wants to start dogging the Razors you really need to try them. </div></div>

Yes sir the scopes ARE very good. Not that other brands are crap but yeah the Razor's are really nice scopes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage110</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just get a Hensolt and be done with all of this crap.....
Thats my opinion.
-Felipe </div></div>

Just cuz it cost ALOT more doesnt always mean it automatically better. I think you should listen to Austin he KNOWS what he's talking about.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Happy Thanksgiving, sounds like someone's been washing down their turkey with lots of koolaid.

Hunter223-how many rounds does the Vortex have on it these days?

AB-how true, imagine if we sent Deming to Detroit instead.... </div></div>

Yeah homies def. partaking of the purple drank

I have around 150-ish rounds on the Razor and this thing is absolutely the shizzle IMO. Man, I wish you guys could really take one of these scopes through their paces they are really nice kit.

OP, don't let ONE malfunction with a top shelf scope disenchant you with an excellent product. NF are among the very best scopes out there.

Felipe, don't take thing so personally.


As far as which scope is best, I love NF products I just found another that is every bit as good and from a company that I've always liked, so I thought I would try one. Like has been stated before, when you get to scopes of this caliber, a lot of stuff comes down to preference. If you like the features NF offers stay with them. If you are hankering for a new scope try the Razor. Maybe you just caught Ken on a bad day too, he really is a great guy from my experience. Ok, tired now from all the typing(LOL) I need the Z's.

 

[nikko]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

Nightforce,Nightforce. Who cares? you all think it's the cats ass.Have you ever glassed a Ziess 6-24x72? I did'nt think so.Nightforce sucks. The group i shoot with loves NF and won't let me tell the tale of the ziess.I paid for the scope myself.4200.

 

[RussW1911]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seadog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nightforce,Nightforce. Who cares? you all think it's the cats ass.Have you ever glassed a Ziess 6-24x72? I did'nt think so.Nightforce sucks. The group i shoot with loves NF and won't let me tell the tale of the ziess.I paid for the scope myself.4200. </div></div>

Was there a point to your post? You have a great piece of glass but it's huge and cost prohibitive for most. How do "glass" a scope? You can tell the tale all you want, but it does nothing to prove a point. 'Splain why a NF scope sucks and back it up with real info from personal experience. You paid a metric shit ton fo a scope and now you feel like you need to justify it. I paid $3600 for 2 of my USO's. What does that have to do with anything?

 

[head2h2o]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MuleHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">head2h2o</span>

Nightforce alternatives

Here's the problem. There are lots of alternatives. Some guys buy a high end scope and it never fails them. All the sudden brand X is the best scope ever made. Something gets in our heads when we have a personnal failure on a scope. I am guilty of this too which is why to this day i will not buy a Leupold. But, something to consider, you buy a USO and it fails so you buy a S&B and it fails so you buy a Hendsoldt and IT fails. Now what? EVERYTHING MECHANICAL CAN AND WILL FAIL!

If you were unlucky enough to have a rare failure and you have lost faith in NF then try something else but you may find you are chasing a pot of gold that doesnt exist. If i had a NF fail i would not hesitate to buy another. I went USO only for the features but if it fails i will get it fixed and continue. The lack of more than 10moa per revolution and a rotating eyepiece are the only reasons i moved on from NF.

i say if the NF has everything you want, try to overcome the mental reservations and move on. Or you could sell it and buy another NF that you know is new and without defect. </div></div>

I will say this again, I don't have a problem with Nightforce. I just wanted to know who their competitors are. If you will read an earlier post, I stated that dollar for dollar and option for option I think NF is the best going for the type of shooting and hunting that I do most of the time. I fully intend to purchase additional scopes from them. To an earlier comment about Zeiss, I have a few Zeiss scopes and really like them, but I have had to send them back also. Mechanical failures are a reality, no matter what the name on the equipment.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

I've looked through a lot of scopes. I've rarely seen one where the optical quality made a difference to the shooter's ability to see the target well enough to shoot it, except in low-light conditions.

The primary items of interest to me in a scope are, with the highest preference first:

1. Reticle - is it one suitable for all lighting conditions, and can I use it easily for holdovers, holdunders, moving target leads, and wind holds? (That pretty much means a FFP reticle.)

2. Reliability. That means the scope must be rugged <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> the adjustment system must be repeatable and reliable.

3. Power Range. I'd like at least a 4-1 zoom ratio. For tactical shooting, I like a power range of 4-16. If I can get a 5-1 zoom ratio, I'd prefer 4-20.

4. Eye relief. Generous eye relief, and one which changes little with power changes.

5. Optical quality.

6. Price.

Getting wrapped around the axle about optical quality is, IMO, not useful. Yeah, a pretty picture is nice, and high magnifications are good at long distance - until the mirage kicks up, which pretty well moots optical quality.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[hunter223]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seadog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nightforce,Nightforce. Who cares? you all think it's the cats ass.Have you ever glassed a Ziess 6-24x72? I did'nt think so.Nightforce sucks. The group i shoot with loves NF and won't let me tell the tale of the ziess.I paid for the scope myself.4200. </div></div>

LOL

 

[Terry Cross]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

Head2h20,

Why did you choose the NF in the first place?
I would think that before spending the dollars, you researched and played with features, etc. Something led you to the NF in the first place and surely you looked at the "alternatives" prior to your purchase.

You even said you like the scope prior to your problems. I would guess that if you had not experienced any issues, you would be a major proponent of the NF line.

Unless I missed it, you did not say whether you mounted that scope on another rifle to test the scope or mount another scope on your existing rifle to test the rifle. Have you isolated that it is even the scope at fault? Not stirring up things, just asking for updated info.

I have been very fortunate to access and play with several scopes at the top of the food chain (for what we do). We are very fortunate to have a wide choice of brands and features to choose from. Most all have excellent products and yet each offers certain strengths compared to the next. For my particular tastes and for the way I run a rifle, the NXS line has been very good to me.

I have an NXS 5.5-22x50 on my main rifle and trust it totally. It gets sent out on loan, used around different environments, flown, driven and dragged. I do not (because I can't afford it) carry a back up but have never felt lacking or concerned. It is always there for me.

Have I seen any issues with NF? You bet. Few and far between and they got them back in the field very quickly. Haven't seen any brand that is in wide spread use not have some issues sooner or later. NF stands behind their product lines and I can assure you that every issue that gets a scope returned for repair helps make them figure out how to make a better product the next day.

At the last SH Bash, I creamed the side of the front objective bell into the inside of a steel culvert.(this was the second time this happened in the last 12 months!). Same course, I basically threw my rifle on the ground to use my handgun on the "run and gun". Never worried about it. Most of the last day of the comp was shot at 3/4 m.o.a. dots on paper. It wasn't pretty (getting my big white ass on the ground and shooting in 6 seconds flat never is. . ) but I cleaned all the stages. Accordingly I would have to say that the rough handling and dinks on the scope did not negatively affect anything.

Would another brand of scope come through for me? Maybe, maybe not. For me, I don't care. It just made me trust my gear all the more. I know others with other brands that feel just as strongly about their chosen optic because they have lots of time on it with good results.

NF makes a very good product as does several other makers. Your task is to decide which features and feel you like and then build your training and experience around what you settle on.

Please update us on what you did to isolate the problem you wrote about in your first post. We all continue to learn from each other.

Best,
Terry

 

[head2h2o]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

Terry,

I ran a Sightron SIII on this rifle and a Bushnell 3200. POI always stayed the same. I wish I had multiple higher end scopes to use routinely to get a feel for which I liked, but I just don't have access to them around here. I have very briefly looked through a Premier and S&B. I prefer the NXS to both for me as I like the MOA / MOA set up. Part of the reason that I asked for alternatives is because I don't claim to be an expert at any of this, I just try to stay up to date, and I wanted to know if there was anything that I had overlooked out there in the scope market. After all that I have looked through, I still prefer the NF. I am not concerned about the potential of a mechanical problem. I went with a company like NF because of the warranty and I knew they would stand behind the product if something happened.

 

[nikko]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

I apologize for the rant. In my research for a scope that would meet my needs,i ended up with a zeiss 6-24x72. The majority of people i shoot with use nightforce scopes.I once owned a nightforce until it sucummed to prolonged 50bmg.Nightforce said your shit out of luck.I bought there ballistic program only to find out it has but one bullet listed for the 50,a 750gr A-Max. TO make a long story short,im not feeling the love on this one.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought there ballistic program only to find out it has but one bullet listed for the 50,a 750gr A-Max.</div></div>

The only thing you need to know to make that program work is the bullet weight and the B.C., which are listed by all bullet manufacturers.

In addition, current versions of that program have a very extensive database, so you probably had an old version of the program.

Those are operator problems. The program works very well, and upgrades are available from the program author.

 

[nikko]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

What if you are shooting custom cnc machined bronze solids with no astablished bc?

 

[Lindy]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

Then you better go out and shoot it to get dope with which to establish a ballistic coefficient which works with whatever ballistic program you are using. People managed to shoot for centuries before the invention of ballistics programs.

Sources of Ballistic Program Inaccuracies

 

[nikko]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

Im not using a ballistic program.Just true dope.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

Then you don't need a BC.

 

[gugubica]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

And you have all the info you need to determine your BC.

 

[Terry Cross]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seadog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I once owned a nightforce until it sucummed to prolonged 50bmg. Nightforce said your shit out of luck. </div></div>

I doubt the first statement and I am positive you are F.O.S. on the second statement.

Additionally, if someone is custom turning long range solids, I would think that in the process of designing a projectile that would actually work in most barrels and stabilize, they would have the facilities and expertise to at least get close to a BC calculation.

Tell me, does your "true dope" stay the same at different altitudes and different atmospheric pressures? If it does, you need to can it and sell it. You could make millions.

 

[jwp475]

Re: Nightforce Alternative


Nightforce makes excellent scopes and thier customer service is first rate. How do I know? Because I have dealt with them, all the BS to the contrary cast serious dought of credibility on the complainer IMHO


I used the quick reply feature and this post is not directed at anyone in particular

 

[nathon]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

id run a nightforce if had the cash right now. it will be the next scope i buy!!! have you ever seen the one with the bullet hole in the side. the soldier taped up the hole and finished his mission without failure. thats is durable equiptment. the glass is great. and they look sweet on a rem 700 sps-v. but for now im running a millet trs. its been great(returns to zero, must have got a good one). ive heard alot of crap against it, but mine is fine. just an example of quality control.

 

[vman]

Re: Nightforce Alternative

Head2h2o i do hope that you work out what is wrong with your rifle/scope... must be a giant pain in the ass

Hey, if you at least send the scope in for a check up and it comes back and the problems gone, the good news is that its not your gun.

Look, every manufacturer has their problems. Im sure even motorolla or toyota, companies that both employ 6 sigma systems have issues that arise from time to time... its just bound to happen at some point in time.

At least you know that if it is the scope, and you send it in, nightforce will check it out and your problem will be solved.

Dude, this kind of crap happens everywhere with everything.

Do you think people that pay crazy money for BMW/Mercedes have no problems with their cars? Of course they do!

Over here in Australia a BMW/Merc is an expensive car. My old boss had a $300,000 AU BMW of some sort. It was only a year old. This thing had problems coming out of its ass, left right and centre... at the end of the day the warranty service was second to none and the car would come back in good working order.

Try to look on the bright side... your a nightforce owner, alot of people would love to own that scope

so get her sent in, fixed, and start shooting again.


If it makes you feel any better i purchased my Remington 700P brand new almost 3 months ago, and only got it back a few days ago as it had to go in for warranty repairs before i even had a chance to shoot her !!!!!

Eh it happens.

Good things come to those who wait