• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Night Vision Non Chinese thermals?

JCCinOhio

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 6, 2014
200
72
Considering a new thermal in the semi budget category. No more than $3500 firm. From what I can tell the Iray, AGM, Bering all use Chinese sensors? I don't want to support China, so looking at the Pulsar Thermion 2 XQ50 Pro (I believe they use BAE sensors?). Any known issues with that model? Anything else I should look at instead for similar performance?

And any recommendations on vendors...

Thanks
 
I hear this brand of thermal has European cores.
Fusion
Never tried them but in their U tube videos the image look's pretty good and the menu + bore sighting look pretty easy to navigate.
Their newer models run on 18650 batteries.

SJC
 
Last edited:
Not sure if they still have them, but Europtic had a screaming deal on the XG50 Thermions. BAE sensor I believe.
For what it's worth. I have an XG50 and Halo XRF and I wouldn't say I feel inferior going out with the XG50, especially if rangefinding isn't all that crucial.
 
With the price being about the same, I'm conflicted between the XG50 (42mm) with 12um & 640 sensor and the newer XQ50 Pro (50mm) with newer algorithms, better aperature system, NETD <25mK, better battery life..
 
With the price being about the same, I'm conflicted between the XG50 (42mm) with 12um & 640 sensor and the newer XQ50 Pro (50mm) with newer algorithms, better aperature system, NETD <25mK, better battery life..
Pulsar discontinued the XG, so you would be advised to get a newer model with better features that will be supported by pulsar warranty service.

SJC
 
Unfortunately, though they try to hide it, Pulsar is Chinese also. A good rule of thumb is "90% of 90% of all commercial thermals are Chinese" :)

And yes a few of the pulsars do incorporate the BAE sensor (not the core).

Non-Chinese in the $3500 price range would be used market. Like olde Armasights or FLIR weapon sights. If you watch for them you'll see them going by. I got a new old stock apollo42 640 last Nov for $1800 and a new old stock apollo100 pro for $3500, smokin deals compared to their original prices.

22LR with VO pstg2 1-6x and apollo42 640 in front. My barnyard defense system !

52126660589_8b5f6382e4_h.jpg


==
With the final demise of Armasight (sold off by FLIR a couple of years ago) the USA commercial thermal makers are Trijicon and N-Vision ... and all their stuff is out of your $3500 price range ($6k to $9k) There are also a number of military thermals now in the commercial market, but they are even farther outside the $3500 limit ($10k to $25k).

So the two constraints, of "not Chinese" and "not over $3,500" ... leave you with a small playing field of used stuff. Finding a used Trijicon or N-Vision unit for $3500 or less will be tough, so again that leaves you with FLIR or Armasight.
If you get a used unit, I'd call the manufacturer before buying to find out if they will repair the unit if it breaks, so at least you'll know that going in, though repairing a broken front lens, might cost more than the $3,500 to begin with, so don't break your front lens !!!!

But if you want a new unit, you'll have to relax one of your constraints and either go with Chinese or keep saving and go with USA made.

==

Just looked on ebay

[URL]https://www.ebay.com/b/Armasight-Hunting-Thermal-Scopes/40970/bn_54323343[/URL]

I'd get the 30hz one if it was me, they have clearer image (the CPUs in the Armasight cores got overworked at 60hz, this is per Armasight CS itself, back in the day), but there you go, USA made for under $3,500 !!
Though I'd rather have a 640, the 336s will work for closer in work, like inside 300yds. If you're hunting hogs, you'll be fine. If yotes, just be real careful with PID yote vs calf or yote vs deer, etc. Watch the critter move for a while to confirm PID. If not sure, don't take the shot.
 
Last edited:
ATN says their scopes are made in the USA and as we all know ATN optics are known for their quality and outstanding customer service.
So where are ATN scopes made? We specify products made in the USA because many optics manufacturers have moved their production centers to countries in East Asia that offer quicker and cheaper production but often fail to uphold quality standards. Quality is paramount when it comes to optics, scopes, and other thermal products because you’re often spending hundreds of your hard-earned dollars and rely on them while in the field.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: smithjd
... So where are ATN scopes made? ...


Do you need 3 guesses !!?? :)

Now the original ATN thermals from 8-10 years ago, IDK, maybe they weren't made in China and I had one an ODIN(320) and it was decent. I kept it even after I sold my Q-14(640) because the ODIN worked well as a head mounted thermal (mostly a pvs-14 housing). But about late 2015-ish iirc, with the "gen2" thermals ATN jumped off the cliff and when hard core China. I bought one of the gen2 thors, the 1.25x optical 384 critter for $1995 (had this one worked, I felt it would blow the market wide open with a useable thermal at $2k, but alas it was a forlorn hope). And well ... I'd say "it wasn't finished". White hot gave an image, switching to black hot and the screen shut off, totally blank, totally repeatable. ATN CS had me download and install the latest firmware, no change on that issue. And in zeroing the click value was 8 moa ... not quite good enough unless you are usually shooting at the broad side of a barn ! I reported 6 issues, I think they fixed 1-2 of them, but couldn't fix the others. For once ATN CS actually did a decent job, given the circumstances, they told me to sent the unit back and I got a full refund !

I'm sure some of them work, but my ATN experience wasn't much different from my later AGM experience, they had me send it back - and said they'd fix it and get it right back to me. I guess in theory I'm still waiting to get it back, but that was over 2 years ago, so I'm not holding my breath.

My take is most of the chinese units are decent in the house, but fall apart under field use conditions. Like the AGM unit - after the first round it went out of focus. I could refocus it, but after each round it went out of focus again. Something loose in there !!??
 
  • Like
Reactions: WhereNow&How
Non-Chinese in the $3500 price range would be used market. Like olde Armasights or FLIR weapon sights. If you watch for them you'll see them going by. I got a new old stock apollo42 640 last Nov for $1800 and a new old stock apollo100 pro for $3500, smokin deals compared to their original prices.

22LR with VO pstg2 1-6x and apollo42 640 in front. My barnyard defense system !

52126660589_8b5f6382e4_h.jpg
Just can't help saying it, them dang Armasights just look like a dang thermal oughta look like IMHO.

An oldie, but still a goldie. (y)
 
  • Like
Reactions: gunsnjeeps
Another $500 would put you in used nvision/trijicon price range. Find something in the px that has been sitting a while and see if they are willing to deal. There is a used ir hunter on marketplace in my area that has been sitting for a while at 4k. I'm guessing after shot show the prices will go even lower if you can hold on for a little bit. I had a Halo 25mm for sale for 4k for a while and no biters. It's a buyers market rn in the used thermal world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikefraz
Thanks all. However I'm REAL leery about buying used electronics, am pretty risk averse in that area as my play funds are extremely limited. & ATN (and therefore AGM) was never a consideration, was bitten once.

If the $3500 thermals get you to 300yds, what do the similarly priced used Armasights get you out to? I have an older Pulsar Trail XQ50 that I've got a few 275yd yote kills with, but it has the wandering POI problem of that model. Pretty much necessitates a zero check every time before using it, as zero changes with temperature.
 
I've shot 12" heated steel out to 700yds with 75mm and 100mm Zeuses (the 640s). They are FLIR Tau-2 cores. I've also been able to get 2 inch groups (all rounds on a single hand warmer) from 500yds with a Zeus std, on a few nights. That was surprising ! But the thermal conditions were decent those nights and the handwarmers were visible even at 500yds. Just a bare dot, i.e. 1 pixel. I had memorized my clicks, so I could "dial" for distance at each 100yd increment.

The 75mm Zeus "standard" (to set it off from the Pro) is a solid unit, might even have been their best. The Zeus 100mm is also good, but much larger and heavier. Fortunately, there were a lot of Zeus 75mm 640s out there, so you should be able to find one if you persist.
There are also the "boson Zeus" where FLIR took the Zeus and recored them with the boson 320 cores. They aren't bad. Who, What, Where, How, Now, Brown, Cow has tons of experience with those.
But if you get a real Armasight make sure to try to get the 30hz. It might seem counter-intuitive, but they actually have a better image than the 60hz, due to the 60s overloading the processor in the core (this per Armasight itself).
 
Pulsar discontinued the XG, so you would be advised to get a newer model with better features that will be supported by pulsar warranty service.

SJC

Pulsar will still support the product for 3 years from time of purchase and upgrade you to the newest model if yours needs replacement during that time period

With that being said the XG I demoed was a turd. Multiple screen glitches in a night and needed to be NUC’s continuously
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikefraz
Unfortunately, though they try to hide it, Pulsar is Chinese also. A good rule of thumb is "90% of 90% of all commercial thermals are Chinese" :)

And yes a few of the pulsars do incorporate the BAE sensor (not the core).

Non-Chinese in the $3500 price range would be used market. Like olde Armasights or FLIR weapon sights. If you watch for them you'll see them going by. I got a new old stock apollo42 640 last Nov for $1800 and a new old stock apollo100 pro for $3500, smokin deals compared to their original prices.

22LR with VO pstg2 1-6x and apollo42 640 in front. My barnyard defense system !

52126660589_8b5f6382e4_h.jpg


==
With the final demise of Armasight (sold off by FLIR a couple of years ago) the USA commercial thermal makers are Trijicon and N-Vision ... and all their stuff is out of your $3500 price range ($6k to $9k) There are also a number of military thermals now in the commercial market, but they are even farther outside the $3500 limit ($10k to $25k).

So the two constraints, of "not Chinese" and "not over $3,500" ... leave you with a small playing field of used stuff. Finding a used Trijicon or N-Vision unit for $3500 or less will be tough, so again that leaves you with FLIR or Armasight.
If you get a used unit, I'd call the manufacturer before buying to find out if they will repair the unit if it breaks, so at least you'll know that going in, though repairing a broken front lens, might cost more than the $3,500 to begin with, so don't break your front lens !!!!

But if you want a new unit, you'll have to relax one of your constraints and either go with Chinese or keep saving and go with USA made.

==

Just looked on ebay

[URL]https://www.ebay.com/b/Armasight-Hunting-Thermal-Scopes/40970/bn_54323343[/URL]

I'd get the 30hz one if it was me, they have clearer image (the CPUs in the Armasight cores got overworked at 60hz, this is per Armasight CS itself, back in the day), but there you go, USA made for under $3,500 !!
Though I'd rather have a 640, the 336s will work for closer in work, like inside 300yds. If you're hunting hogs, you'll be fine. If yotes, just be real careful with PID yote vs calf or yote vs deer, etc. Watch the critter move for a while to confirm PID. If not sure, don't take the shot.
No, Pulsar is not Chinese -- I work at Pulsar USA. As for sensors, the gen 1 Thermion XGs had BAE sensors and proprietary Pulsar cores, and were only available in the US, because of that. The Thermion 2 XGs have Lynred/ULIS sensors. This is why they are now available in the EU, too.
 
No, Pulsar is not Chinese -- I work at Pulsar USA. As for sensors, the gen 1 Thermion XGs had BAE sensors and proprietary Pulsar cores, and were only available in the US, because of that. The Thermion 2 XGs have Lynred/ULIS sensors. This is why they are now available in the EU, too.

Thank you for stating some facts instead of internet rumor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikefraz
Since this thread got resurrected.. I ended up getting the Pulsar Thermion 2 XQ50 Pro a few months ago. It does need nuc'd pretty regularly after startup, but settles in after a few minutes. There are some faint wavy lines in the output (even in the videos), I'll probably send it in at some point in the summer to see if they'll clear it up. Overall pretty happy with it.
 
... I work at Pulsar USA. As for sensors, the gen 1 Thermion XGs had BAE sensors and proprietary Pulsar cores ...

Any pics of the manufacturing areas of the USA factory where the proprietary cores are made ! I'd be convinced by some pics !!
 
Thank you for stating some facts instead of internet rumor.
There is no collimation or way to adjust the screen to work with the day optic.
You made 2 very specific statements in the sentence above that are blatantly incorrect. I just pointed the fact out that you were totally wrong.

The company you are a "Product Specialist" for actually sells the Breach. For you not to know that the margins can be adjusted (aka adjusting the screen - which allows collimation) that you stated could not occur in the Breach indicates that you are not really that specialized in the features some products the firm you represent sells. Also, it's not like a Breach is a new product. It's been around for quite a few years now so as a product specialist one would think, you should know these features if you are going to use the title "Product Specialist" that infers special understanding of devices and then make public statements about those devices.

Hecque, I am just "Joe Shit The Rag Man" and all I had to do to know the margins can be moved was to read the manual. No magic there. Actually quite rudimentary.

You were the one that made the statement directly above. All I said is you should have known better that to make bold statements about something you self admitted you should have not answered.
I feel slighted. No thank you for me for cleaning up internet rumor. :cry:
 
  • Like
Reactions: cantankerous
Since this thread got resurrected.. I ended up getting the Pulsar Thermion 2 XQ50 Pro a few months ago. It does need nuc'd pretty regularly after startup, but settles in after a few minutes. There are some faint wavy lines in the output (even in the videos), I'll probably send it in at some point in the summer to see if they'll clear it up. Overall pretty happy with it.
You might consider changing your calibration to semi-auto to have more control over when it NUCs. That said, if and when you are ready and feel it needs it, you can do a RA and send it into our HQ here in Mansfield, TX and we will collimate and calibrate everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JCCinOhio
Any pics of the manufacturing areas of the USA factory where the proprietary cores are made ! I'd be convinced by some pics !!

Pulsar manufacturing is in Lithuania and Latvia (moved from Belarus at the start of that Russia/Ukraine war). Proprietary means nobody is taking photos. Whether you believe me or not is obviously up to you. I think I recall in previous comments you weren't really a Pulsar fan to begin with... that's okay. There are a number of thermal producers out there now. Competition is good.
 
Pulsar lost a lot of fans because of the problems associated with shifting POA/POI issues on expensive thermals.

That and their constant proprietary battery situation.
 
Pulsar lost a lot of fans because of the problems associated with shifting POA/POI issues on expensive thermals.

That and their constant proprietary battery situation.
Social media has a weird way of creating "firestorms" with just a handful of people and of course, competitors like to fan those flames, too -- not mentioning any. That said, we were VERY transparent with our willingness to help, troubleshoot, investigate individual devices if people felt the need to send them in -- we did not turn anybody away. We tested all of them carefully in fixed-mounted scenarios (absent of shooter variables). We put them through extreme temperature changes, recoil tested, track any reticle drifts through warming/cooling temp changes, etc. and while it "appeared" to be a huge issue on social media, it wasn't. I don't know the exact number because I don't work in customer service but it was an incredibly small number -- it might have been a dozen or so -- I mean an infantile number compared to the number of devices out there at the time. Additionally, the housing materials, etc. used in those may see some small amount of shift in extreme temperatures and it was stated in the operator manuals. Even so, Pulsar also updated firmware to further mitigate the potential for any shifting. As far as I know, we were the only company to do so although other producers certainly experience/experienced shifts related to materials/temperatures. Of course, different materials have been in place since the Trail 2s anyway. As far as batteries, some like our extended life batteries, some do not. The biggest argument folks had with first-generation Thermions was battery life; however, the Thermion pro models run much more efficiently. External/internal combo battery life now is on par with Trail batteries... 8+ hours. Talions have rechargeable APS5 external batteries only but also offer roughly 8 hrs, if I recall.
 
I’ve had a trail XP50 for over 5 years and I’ve never had any POI shift issues and the original battery still lasts an incredibly long time. I have a second larger battery I carry as a backup that never gets used.

My step dad has a thermion XQ50 he got from eurooptic for nearly half off, the battery life on it definitely isn’t as good as mine but spare batteries aren’t expensive and they’re small and easy to carry. For the clearance price with the features it has it’s tough to beat. Picture quality is about the same as my old trail but colored reticles and images it offers over mine is pretty awesome. A green reticle in my trail would be great but certainly not necessary.
 
I don't know the exact number because I don't work in customer service but it was an incredibly small number -- it might have been a dozen or so -- I mean an infantile number compared to the number of devices out there at the time.
The amount of units with the design defect is exactly 100% for that particular model.

The amount of units reported to have experienced the issue will never be accurate for the following reasons.

1. Users never using the unit enough across large temperature variances to know if it had a POA/POI change.
2. Hog hunters shooting a first shot on still animals at close range (50 to 75 yards typical) that are relatively large. They would never be able to quantify a POA/POI shift.
3. Hog hunters shooting running hogs. Was it a lack of shooting skill on a moving target or a POA/POI issue that caused the miss ???

All of these above user categories are probably satisfied with the units performance and the POA/POI design defect was not a significant problem for them due to their mission use. These categories of users likely never sent them in or complained.

I also see no way a "firmware" fix can solve the problem of expanding and contracting thermal scope construction materials that consist of a variable rate of shrinking and expanding that is temperature dependent.

However, to state that the units that had a problem was incredibly small understates the fact that it was definitely a design defect that is inherent in 100% of those particular models.

It was and is what it is. A design defect. Better to call it what it truly was and move forward than to make up excuses.
 
The amount of units with the design defect is exactly 100% for that particular model.

The amount of units reported to have experienced the issue will never be accurate for the following reasons.

1. Users never using the unit enough across large temperature variances to know if it had a POA/POI change.
2. Hog hunters shooting a first shot on still animals at close range (50 to 75 yards typical) that are relatively large. They would never be able to quantify a POA/POI shift.
3. Hog hunters shooting running hogs. Was it a lack of shooting skill on a moving target or a POA/POI issue that caused the miss ???

All of these above user categories are probably satisfied with the units performance and the POA/POI design defect was not a significant problem for them due to their mission use. These categories of users likely never sent them in or complained.

I also see no way a "firmware" fix can solve the problem of expanding and contracting thermal scope construction materials that consist of a variable rate of shrinking and expanding that is temperature dependent.

However, to state that the units that had a problem was incredibly small understates the fact that it was definitely a design defect that is inherent in 100% of those particular models.

It was and is what it is. A design defect. Better to call it what it truly was and move forward than to make up excuses.hat issue is miles behind everybody -- but countless people did not experienced the issues we saw in the infantile number of devices we replaced -- they've been vocal and supportive and we stood behind our warranty then as we do now. Understandably, not seeing a way to mitigate temperature-related shifting, doesn't mean that smarter people than both of us didn't figure something out that worked pretty well -- they did. I shared about the experience here and how social media sometimes make things look much bigger than they really are -- mainstream media is good at this, too. Whether people choose to believe my comms is up to them. My integrity's not for sale for or to anybody. Of course, if someone has a warranty issue, we'll definitely stand behind it.
I'm not sure what else you'd like me to add but the issue is miles behind us. Whether people believe my commenting or not, I've shared honestly -- my integrity's not for sale for or to anyone. There is no arguing that issues on social media, just like mainstream media, are often dramatically sensationalized. That issue, as it appeared on social media, was not our experience at all in-house -- we tested a lot, replaced a handful and turned nobody away. And yes, folks smarter than me, perhaps smarter than both of us, developed a program within a firmware update that mitigated shifting (reduced/inhibited -- this is different than precisely solving). We can't even build rifles that don't experience temperature related shifts. If we did, cold-bore wouldn't mean anything. Of course, the only constant is change anyway. The Trails are a memory although I loved my Trail XP38 and Trail 2 LRF XP50 (and if people still have Trails under warranty, we'll still stand behind them). The Thermion 2 Pros are treating pretty much everybody well and battery life is dramatically improved in the Pros, too -- they run more efficiently than the gen 1 Thermions. I'm shooting a Thermion 2 LRF XP50 Pro and hope to add a Talion XG35 as a second scope for a tag-along.
 
Last edited:
I’ve had a trail XP50 for over 5 years and I’ve never had any POI shift issues and the original battery still lasts an incredibly long time. I have a second larger battery I carry as a backup that never gets used.

My step dad has a thermion XQ50 he got from eurooptic for nearly half off, the battery life on it definitely isn’t as good as mine but spare batteries aren’t expensive and they’re small and easy to carry. For the clearance price with the features it has it’s tough to beat. Picture quality is about the same as my old trail but colored reticles and images it offers over mine is pretty awesome. A green reticle in my trail would be great but certainly not necessary.
Dude, thanks for the great feedback and for choosing our optics! The Thermion Pros are running more efficiently, resulting in much longer battery life. The combination of internal and external battery runtimes are comparable to Trail battery runtimes now. Of course, the XQs are still running 384/17 and XPs are running 640/17 (both with <25mK NETD), and the XGs are running 640/12 with <40mK NETD. The Talion XG35 also is a 640/12 with a 2x base mag and <40mK NETD.
 
The only issue I ever had with a pulsar optic was the Trail XP50 POI temp shift and Pulsar took it in and gave me a great deal on a Thermion XP38.
I then bought an XG50 and that scope was great too.
I was going to get the new XG50, but I don't really need LRF and that feature has changed the button layout.
I'm so used to the old style Thermion scope button layout that I didn't get it, but I probably would have if they offered it without the LRF and the old style button layout.

SJC
 
The only issue I ever had with a pulsar optic was the Trail XP50 POI temp shift and Pulsar took it in and gave me a great deal on a Thermion XP38.
I then bought an XG50 and that scope was great too.
I was going to get the new XG50, but I don't really need LRF and that feature has changed the button layout.
I'm so used to the old style Thermion scope button layout that I didn't get it, but I probably would have if they offered it without the LRF and the old style button layout.

SJC
Thanks! Yeah, I thought the same. When I went from my XP38 to a Trail LRF, and started to actually use it, I liked it. Then when we added color reticles, I had to move again. By then we didn't have any more Trails without LRFs anyway. I was asked what it would take for me to move into a Thermion, I said a LRF... the next SHOT Show we intro'd the LRF. I sold my Trail 2 LRF XP50 and bought the Thermion 2 LRF XP50 Pro. I'd like to get our Duo but I went from not caring about a LRF to using one to not wanting a primary thermal riflescope without LRF. So, a LRF just might grow on you. Haha! Also, don't let the button layout get to you. It's still crazy-easy to operate. It would take you about 2 minutes, tops, to master the LRF model since you already know the non-LRF. Cheers!
 
Thanks! Yeah, I thought the same. When I went from my XP38 to a Trail LRF, and started to actually use it, I liked it. Then when we added color reticles, I had to move again. By then we didn't have any more Trails without LRFs anyway. I was asked what it would take for me to move into a Thermion, I said a LRF... the next SHOT Show we intro'd the LRF. I sold my Trail 2 LRF XP50 and bought the Thermion 2 LRF XP50 Pro. I'd like to get our Duo but I went from not caring about a LRF to using one to not wanting a primary thermal riflescope without LRF. So, a LRF just might grow on you. Haha! Also, don't let the button layout get to you. It's still crazy-easy to operate. It would take you about 2 minutes, tops, to master the LRF model since you already know the non-LRF. Cheers!
While it may be a nice feature to some, I have little use for an LRF in the terrain I hunt.
They offer the choice with the XP50 Pro, It would've been nice to have that option with the XG50.
I still recommend Pulsar, as with the exception of the Trail scope and to the best of my knowledge, all of the Yukon + Pulsar NV and thermal optics I've used then sold over the last couple of decades are still operational.

SJC
 
DopeMan,
Love my pulsar helion units. I have a question about Pulsar and the internal battery units. I've been hesitant to buy a Pulsar with an internal battery because I simply don't know what happens to it after the 3 year warranty. We all know batteries go bad eventually. What happens when an internal battery goes bad in a Pulsar unit after the 3 years? Will Pulsar still be able to fix it if I pay for the repair? I don't want to get stuck with a paperweight because an internal battery failed. Will those units run only on the external battery or is the scope toast if the internal battery is dead?
 
I know peoples faces when I say “sightmark” but, the outdoor legacy guys kind of insinuated that the new SM thermal is using parts not from china. And they’re priced right. Used their wraith mini 4K last season and it was wonderful. Same housing and controls for the new thermal as the wraith mini. Sightmark and pulsar have the same “owners” or whatever you call it. Think they’re called sellmark. Might be worth a gander.
 
I'm not sure what else you'd like me to add but the issue is miles behind us. Whether people believe my commenting or not, I've shared honestly -- my integrity's not for sale for or to anyone. There is no arguing that issues on social media, just like mainstream media, are often dramatically sensationalized. That issue, as it appeared on social media, was not our experience at all in-house -- we tested a lot, replaced a handful and turned nobody away. And yes, folks smarter than me, perhaps smarter than both of us, developed a program within a firmware update that mitigated shifting (reduced/inhibited -- this is different than precisely solving). We can't even build rifles that don't experience temperature related shifts. If we did, cold-bore wouldn't mean anything. Of course, the only constant is change anyway. The Trails are a memory although I loved my Trail XP38 and Trail 2 LRF XP50 (and if people still have Trails under warranty, we'll still stand behind them). The Thermion 2 Pros are treating pretty much everybody well and battery life is dramatically improved in the Pros, too -- they run more efficiently than the gen 1 Thermions. I'm shooting a Thermion 2 LRF XP50 Pro and hope to add a Talion XG35 as a second scope for a tag-along.
Thanks for clearing that up. We know your reputation and integrity has never been for sale. Don't let one user here say otherwise about you or the product.
 
Pulsar mainly use sensors made by LYNRED, typically made in France but I think they have more factories.

Pulsar make most of the stuff themselves, in Europe, even including injection molding.
 
DopeMan,
Love my pulsar helion units. I have a question about Pulsar and the internal battery units. I've been hesitant to buy a Pulsar with an internal battery because I simply don't know what happens to it after the 3 year warranty. We all know batteries go bad eventually. What happens when an internal battery goes bad in a Pulsar unit after the 3 years? Will Pulsar still be able to fix it if I pay for the repair? I don't want to get stuck with a paperweight because an internal battery failed. Will those units run only on the external battery or is the scope toast if the internal battery is dead?
Only the very old Pulsars have internal batteries?

Since at least 3 years every Pulsar I've seen had replaceable ones. Some have a secondary internal battery - so question valid I guess.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikefraz