Rifle Scopes noob here with some questions...

Vortech03_GT

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whats up everyone?

I guess I should start off by introducing myself, my name is Brian and I am from Las Vegas, NV. I have only owned firearms for about 2yrs now but I am totally hooked. I have been wanting a rifle that I could work on marksmanship with for a while now and today I finally placed an order for a Rem 700 SPS Varmit in .308. Next step is getting some of the goodies I need to be able to go out and shoot it.

While I dont know exactly what scope I want just yet I would like to get everything else. I already decided on a bi-pod, I now need to figure out what rings and scope base to get. I like the gg&g stuff since I used some of their products on my AR15. Where I am stuck is the sight base and whether or not to get the 20moa raised one or the standard "dead flat" one. I want to first be able to creep my way to accuratetly shooting out to 500yds and then go further and further out when I can afford some top notch optics.

Any suggestions? Should I be looking at another brand?
 

LoneWolfUSMC

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Re: noob here with some questions...

All these questions are already available for your perusal if you use the search function.

However since I am just hanging out I will cover some of them:

Seekins Precision is my pick for rings and bases. Badger is also GTG. Get a 20 MOA base. No need to for a flat base. A 20 MOA will allow you to use more of your scopes adjustment. I don't have any experience with the GG&G hardware.

For a bipod, go with a Harris BRM-S.

You will also want to get an Eagle Stock Pack or a Kartsen Cheek piece, or even some foam and riggers tape to adjust the comb to a decent height. You will see what I mean when you get everything mounted up.

Read up on scopes in the optics section. There is tons of advice for every price range.

If you are new to rifle marksmanship, a .22LR Savage MkII will save you lots of money and allow you more trigger time than you can possibly get with the .308.
 

300WSM

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Re: noob here with some questions...

seekins chit is good stuff
 

Vortech03_GT

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Re: noob here with some questions...

I actually tried the search function, maybe I was using the wrong vocab. Thanks for the responses though, your info is much appreciated.

I am pretty green to rifle marksmanship but I think a .22 (while fun to shoot) would have been a waste of money as its not what I really wanted. I grew up shooting, I just have never owned my own firearms until recently.

I know .308 ammo is pricy and I know I might have jumped in just a tad bit over my head but I didnt want to do this twice. If there is anything that I DO have a lot of experiance with is that doing something right the 1st time around is always best. I figure I have a good rifle to build from, progress with and have fun with.
 

YAOG

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Re: noob here with some questions...


Vortech03 GT,

As in New Edge SN95?

As the other posts suggest a decent scoped .22 bolt action and sending a lot of ammo down range can be an excellent training method. The reason is that shooting a .22 bolt gun allows you to become proficient with a bolt gun and scoped sights at a very low price including the cost of a .22 cal. bolt gun. Just be sure to select similar scope features for your .22 trainer as for your high-powered rifle. For example buy scopes with milrad adjusters and a milrad based reticle with a first focal plane reticle. Or if you must an MOA/MOA based adjuster and reticle though they are very hard to find this way. The idea is to do in practice what you do in the game.

At $30 a 20 round box for good match quality .308Win you can afford to shoot a brick (500 rounds)of very good .22 ammo for less than the cost of a couple of boxes of .308 match ammo. You can learn a lot shooting small bore that will carry directly over to high-power rifle. Small bore bolt guns are also a heck of a lot of fun if you get the right one and equip it with the right optics!

Hope this helps!
 

Ratbert

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Re: noob here with some questions...

I agree with LoneWolf that you'll really thank yourself if you take some time to read all you can in the Equipment, optics, and rifles forums (the top 3.) There's a lot to be learned there and after a while you will feel a lot more comfortable making an informed decision rather than just taking the advice of whoever happens to feel like posting in your thread today.

That said, I appreciate that you asked some specific questions so I'll chime in with pretty much 100% agreement with LoneWolf. My personal preference is the Seekins stuff, but the badger stuff is just as high of quality. I've also never used the GG&G stuff, it's probably fine but Seekins and Badger probably account for 90%+ of the rifles used by members here when there wasn't some other deciding factor (cost, already had something on hand, came with the rifle, etc.) If cost is a significant factory, EGW makes some pretty good low-cost bases. Either way there's really no good reason not to get a 20MOA sloped base.

A Harris BRM-S will cover you just fine. If you're going to be shooting primarily at a range then a 6-9" should cover both off a bench and prone. If you're going to a field somewhere (not likely in LV, I guess) then the 9-13 can help you get up and over the grass somewhat. A 6-9" BRM-S should probably be the first bipod everyone buys. If you've got tons of cash to blow, the Atlas bipod ( http://www.accu-shot.com/atlas_bipod.html ) is pretty much the best there is (I now own 2 and absolutely love them) but it will require adding a pic rail to your rifle before you can attach it and the Harris will do you just fine.

On those low-comb factory stocks, I actually prefer a combination of the Karsten cheek piece (search the hide using the link in my sig, below) AND a eagle stock pack over that. The only real issue is that you have to take it all off to clean, but it's more than worth the little bit of hassle to have a good cheek weld. It's really hard to shoot precisely when your head is just floating around over the stock and trying to look through the scope.

Also, go to Triad Tactical ( http://www.triadtactical.com ) and order up a Redman rear bag
MISC_Shooting_Gear_RedMan_Rear_Bag_Multicam.jpg
listed under "Misc Shooting Gear." You can also order your badger stuff from them while you're there, if so inclined. If you decide to go with Seekins, call Scott @ LibertyOptics ( http://www.libertyoptics.com ) and he can fix you up. Both vendors big forum supports and provide excellent customer service, either on the phone or via here on the hide.

While at Triad you can also order a TIS sling. Slip cuff or quick cuff, it's just personal preference. I like the slip cuff because you don't have to carry around an extra cuff piece to use it, but the quick cuff is a lot faster to get in and out off and it's easier to get a good tight loop.




 

Vortech03_GT

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Re: noob here with some questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Vortech03 GT,

As in New Edge SN95?

As the other posts suggest a decent scoped .22 bolt action and sending a lot of ammo down range can be an excellent training method. The reason is that shooting a .22 bolt gun allows you to become proficient with a bolt gun and scoped sights at a very low price including the cost of a .22 cal. bolt gun. Just be sure to select similar scope features for your .22 trainer as for your high-powered rifle. For example buy scopes with milrad adjusters and a milrad based reticle with a first focal plane reticle. Or if you must an MOA/MOA based adjuster and reticle though they are very hard to find this way. The idea is to do in practice what you do in the game.

At $30 a 20 round box for good match quality .308Win you can afford to shoot a brick (500 rounds)of very good .22 ammo for less than the cost of a couple of boxes of .308 match ammo. You can learn a lot shooting small bore that will carry directly over to high-power rifle. Small bore bolt guns are also a heck of a lot of fun if you get the right one and equip it with the right optics!

Hope this helps!
</div></div>
yup, I have a 2003 GT with an s-trim and all the goodies. Its a fun car to drive around
wink.gif


Thanks for the tips, but I am not going to get a .22; I will do my best with what ammo I can afford for the .308 and take it from there. If I find that I am THAT bad of a shot and need to practice a LOT more, then I will think about investing in a .22
 

YAOG

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Re: noob here with some questions...


Vortech03,

I'm a bit of a handling freak and until now have never owned an American car before, only German sports and performance cars. I now drive an S197GT with virtually the entire Steeda suspension catalog including their adjustable coil-over suspension with a Saleen PJ Watt's link installed for good measure. It's a high maintenance suspension setup but the car handles and sticks very well. But it's not so bad as I install all this stuff on my friends cars for fun. All they do is keep my (fully equipped garage) fridge fully stocked with beer. But anyway...

The suggestion to train with a .22 was meant to help. I've been shooting more than 45 years and still love to shoot my old .22 cal. Anschutz single shot prone rifle. As a matter of fact I just bought a 13 year old never been fired NIB Ruger 10/22T just because they are a blast to shoot and I've never personally owned one so I thought I'd see if I could build it into a precision semi-auto. The great thing about .22LR ballistics is that all of the inherent weaknesses of the .22LR cartridge at 200 to 300 yards are exactly the same issues you must learn to manage to shoot .308 Win successfully at 1,000 yards. The little .22LR projectiles get blown around quite a bit and they are dropping faster AIG stock. But never mind if you are made of money and can afford to burn through $150-$200 of .308 ammo every session at the range.

How about another track, consider loading your own ammo. The initial investment is sort of steep but once you have the required equipment and measurement tools you will never want to buy commercial ammo again. There must be someone at the local shooting range with similar need for high quality .308 Win ammo whom you can get to split the cost of the equipment with to get you both loading your own ammo. Reloaded ammo is so much less expensive and so much more precise that it can open up a whole new world to you in the shooting sport. Just a thought!

Hope this helps!

 

ewoaf

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Re: noob here with some questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vortech03_GT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Vortech03 GT,

As in New Edge SN95?

As the other posts suggest a decent scoped .22 bolt action and sending a lot of ammo down range can be an excellent training method. The reason is that shooting a .22 bolt gun allows you to become proficient with a bolt gun and scoped sights at a very low price including the cost of a .22 cal. bolt gun. Just be sure to select similar scope features for your .22 trainer as for your high-powered rifle. For example buy scopes with milrad adjusters and a milrad based reticle with a first focal plane reticle. Or if you must an MOA/MOA based adjuster and reticle though they are very hard to find this way. The idea is to do in practice what you do in the game.

At $30 a 20 round box for good match quality .308Win you can afford to shoot a brick (500 rounds)of very good .22 ammo for less than the cost of a couple of boxes of .308 match ammo. You can learn a lot shooting small bore that will carry directly over to high-power rifle. Small bore bolt guns are also a heck of a lot of fun if you get the right one and equip it with the right optics!

Hope this helps!
</div></div>
yup, I have a 2003 GT with an s-trim and all the goodies. Its a fun car to drive around
wink.gif


Thanks for the tips, but I am not going to get a .22; I will do my best with what ammo I can afford for the .308 and take it from there. If I find that I am THAT bad of a shot and need to practice a LOT more, then I will think about investing in a .22 </div></div>

so there you are saying you're wanting to spend your money right the first time and do things right, but if your not sure you can shoot, you'll reconsider going for a .22 trainer after you've bought a .308?......it's your cash man..whatever
There are people on this site that you are soliciting advice from that have paid their dues in spades with brick after brick of .22LR.
What's the point of even owning a sub minute highpower if you cant get 2 minutes out of it? You'd do a lot better for yourself to start by learning how to handle a rifle by being able to see how much your heart beat can and will affect you...same goes for breathing and trigger control. You'd be a lot better off by the time you have a lot of GOOD practice on a smallbore, to know what you want, when you move up to a highpower with confidence.


 

LoneWolfUSMC

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Re: noob here with some questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vortech03_GT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the tips, but I am not going to get a .22</div></div>

Brother, take the following for what it's worth. You drive a big bad Mustang. You probably like to go BIG in most things you do.

We are not telling you do get a .22 because we don't think you are man enough for a .308. We are telling to to get a .22 because you WILL learn things from it that you can't from a big bore. You will burn THOUSANDS of dollars of ammo to learn the lessons that a couple hundred bucks of .22 will teach you.

In the end it's about asking yourself what you are after. Do you just want the gear that makes people "Oooh and Aaah"? Or do you want the skills that will make people walk away and shake their heads?
 

Gilly

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Re: noob here with some questions...

If you dont want to take these experienced shooters (I am sure way more than myself) advice on getting a .22 because it is not enough rifle for your current desire than look into a .204 ruger or something similar. Get a rifle with minimal recoil so you can learn to watch the bullet impact through the scope. If you just go with a large caliber rifle you will devolop a flinch and that is not a habit you want to get into. I have a stock rem 700 sps varmint in .204 and love shooting that thing. look at the ballistics of that rifle over 4000 fps and its a tack driver even with factory ammo. Its not as cheap to shoot as a .22 but it will be a real fun gun to get practice behind. Its even a gun you can shoot out to 500-600 yards with if thats what you want I have done it many times. But thats just my opinion. I shoot way more rounds through that .204 than I do my .270 weatherby or 30-06 or 300WM (near future ordered NXS today) I am still getting setup.
 

dagwood

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Re: noob here with some questions...

Vortech03_GT,
You have come upon a site of very informed shooters that have practiced what they are telling you. Most of the people are active or former military,or Law Enforcement. They know what they are talking about, do yourself a favor and listen to these people. You will learn alot. You may want to even sign up for the training that is offered here on the site. I'm still pretty new to this, I don't claim to know alot, but these people do. I take any advice I can get, and I've become a better shooter.
 

Vortech03_GT

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Re: noob here with some questions...

guys, I get it; really. maybe I should have started off with a .22 but I didnt and what is done is done. I am not in the position to start another build with a 10-22 or the like.

I have shot many rifles, I practice A LOT with my handguns so I understand all the little things that go into a good shot. true its a different discipline but the concepts are similar.

I appreciate all the comments guys and I don't want anyone to think that I am blowing off their advice, I just cant ( at this point in time) add another rifle to my collection.

I think I will be ordering up the bi-pod, Karsten cheek rest, and Seekins 20moa mount plate this week. once the funds are there for a descent scope I will order that along with the rings (also will be Seekins).

thanks again guys, I look forward to being a part of this board; its very informative and obviously filled with some very experienced shooters.
 

gugubica

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Re: noob here with some questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vortech03_GT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">guys, I get it; really. maybe I should have started off with a .22 but I didnt and what is done is done. I am not in the position to start another build with a 10-22 or the like.</div></div>

GT, noone is saying that you should have started with a .22 before moving up to a .308. In the grand scheme of things, a .308 is a pretty tame rifle.

The point that everyone is trying to get across is that a .22 should be considered a part of a good .308, an accessory if you will. The two work together, not against each other.

I understand that you want to put you enegy (and funds) into kitting up the .308. That's cool, do that, but also consider a future .22 as a part of the process to having a kick ass tactical rifle (.308)!
 

Vortech03_GT

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Re: noob here with some questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vortech03_GT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">guys, I get it; really. maybe I should have started off with a .22 but I didnt and what is done is done. I am not in the position to start another build with a 10-22 or the like.</div></div>

GT, noone is saying that you should have started with a .22 before moving up to a .308. In the grand scheme of things, a .308 is a pretty tame rifle.

The point that everyone is trying to get across is that a .22 should be considered a part of a good .308, an accessory if you will. The two work together, not against each other.

I understand that you want to put you enegy (and funds) into kitting up the .308. That's cool, do that, but also consider a future .22 as a part of the process to having a kick ass tactical rifle (.308)! </div></div>
hopefully down the road a bit I can do just that. I totally understand the value of the cheap-to-shoot .22 and the benefits I can gain from it in the long run without spending tons of $ on .308 to get proficient with the 700 I just purchased.

Thanks again for all the responses guys...
 

He Shoot Me

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Re: noob here with some questions...

Ratbert,

That little search link in your signature is gold. Thank you very much for pointing that out. Now I'm never going to get any work done. ;-)

-Pat
 

He Shoot Me

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Re: noob here with some questions...

Ruger 10/22 and a Nikkon buckmaster scope, inexpensive, can be modified in the future, and will last you a lifetime.

I have heard a lot of good things about those Savages, but I've never had the chance to shoot one.

-Pat
 

Ratbert

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Re: noob here with some questions...

Savage MkII is a great value. If you're not planning on dumping more money into it for a stock upgrade, make sure you get the model with the laminate thumbhole. The plastic ones they ship with are total crap.

The CZ's are popular here too. Never owned one, but Boyette's certainly was fun to shoot.

I like the Falcon Menace 4-14 FFP for a 22 trainer. It has all the goodies a topend scope would come with (FFP, enchanced mildot, or MLR reticles, milrad based turrets), but also focuses down to 10m (a lot of the bigger scopes stop @ 50m) and only costs like $380. Check the group buy section, RWS is getting some more in. This also makes a great starter scope for a 308, btw.

 

LoneWolfUSMC

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Re: noob here with some questions...

I have 250 rounds through my Savage MkII BTVS right now. It's a GREAT trainer. Accurate enough with Wolf MT and CCI Green Tag, and cheap enough that you aren't emptying your wallet.

I put a CenterPoint scope on it that I picked up at WalMart until I decide if I want to put another Falcon on this one. More than likely it will get the Mil/MOA 4-14x44FFP that is currently on my .308.

The CenterPoint is not the clearest or the beefiest, but it's cheap and it seems to work. When our KD range opens back up I will do a box test on it to check the tracking. For less than $70 it seems decent enough. I don't like the rings though. I will be replacing those soon.

 

Ratbert

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Re: noob here with some questions...


Or, of course, if you don't want a savage you could always get one of these (but not the bottom one... that one is mine!)


IMG_4966.jpg
 

Ratbert

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Re: noob here with some questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You suck. I do good enough to afford to feed my 700.</div></div>

Clearly, since your MkII only has 250 rds through it...
laugh.gif


 

LoneWolfUSMC

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Re: noob here with some questions...

Yea, but they closed my regular range for berm repair for most of the time I have owned it.

Trust me. I am going to see if I can burn the barrel out of a .22 I also need to find a cheaper source for CCI Green Tag. The local place wants $17 per 100.
 

Ratbert

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Re: noob here with some questions...

Try Federal 711B. It's only like $3.50/50. My MkII loves it.
 

He Shoot Me

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Re: noob here with some questions...

Dear Ratbert,

I HATE YOU!

Sincerely,

Mr. Green With Envy

P.S.

I had to remove my pants while looking at that pic...BAAHAAHAAHAA!
 

Vortech03_GT

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Re: noob here with some questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: He Shoot Me</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Ratbert,

I HATE YOU!

Sincerely,

Mr. Green With Envy

P.S.

I had to remove my pants while looking at that pic...BAAHAAHAAHAA! </div></div>
ditto...


what kind of stocks are on all of those rifles?
 

Ratbert

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Re: noob here with some questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: He Shoot Me</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Ratbert,

I HATE YOU!

Sincerely,

Mr. Green With Envy

P.S.

I had to remove my pants while looking at that pic...BAAHAAHAAHAA!</div></div>

Bah, I never wear pants while surfing the internet. And I have a leather chair. Now try to get THAT picture out of your mind...
 

Megacab

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Re: noob here with some questions...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: He Shoot Me</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Ratbert,

I HATE YOU!

Sincerely,

Mr. Green With Envy

P.S.

I had to remove my pants while looking at that pic...BAAHAAHAAHAA!</div></div>

Bah, I never wear pants while surfing the internet. And I have a leather chair. Now try to get THAT picture out of your mind... </div></div>

Gives a whole new meaning to "sticking to the chair"
wink.gif