Rifle Scopes noob- zeroing a scope

[jackh]

i feel like an idiot. just read the owners manual of my new rem700 and the part about zeroing a scope seems bass akwards to me. it says if the bullet hits hi, adjust down. bullet hits right, adjust left etc. seems to me this would only double the margin of error after each adjustment...

when i think about it: adjust the cross hairs to the bullet hole on the target, where ever it might be. then when you bring the cross hairs back to the center you have corrected the misalignment. is this not right? sorry its such a noob question this is my first scoped and new gun

 

[kurt]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

you are shooting for the center of the target right. so if you hit 4 inches to the left you would have to adjust 4 inches to the right to change poi to center of target. same if you shoot high you adjust down. so follow the directions they are correct.

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

Use the "Force" Jack and all will be understood. LOL!

Just kidding bub, Kurt explained it perfectly. You will have plenty of other shit to wrap your mind around with this stuff.

Good luck,

-Pat

 

[jackh]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

damnit its so frustrating. deep down i know the instructions are right or they wouldn't be printed, it just makes no sense!

alright whatever thanks guys

 

[SnkBit]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

I think the instructions seem backwards to you because you are expecting to adjust the point of aim of the scope to meet the bullet hole when in actuality you need to look at it as adjusting the bullets point of impact to match the crosshairs.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

if you think thats bad, i am getting a base with 20 moa. i thought the tall part of the base would go to the front of the rifle. but its the opposite, the base with 20 moa of elevation actually points the scope down, not up. think about that for a while. it took me a bit to get that one right in my mind

 

[jackh]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you think thats bad, i am getting a base with 20 moa. i thought the tall part of the base would go to the front of the rifle. but its the opposite, the base with 20 moa of elevation actually points the scope down, not up. think about that for a while. it took me a bit to get that one right in my mind </div></div>

ya i got a 20 moa base too and i still dont understand why it angles down instead of up...

 

[vman]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

Jack follow this procedure and you will be ok

1) Boresight the gun. Put a Visible target out to about 50m or 100m if you can. Secure the rifle in a gun vise if you have one or just sand bag or use whatever means to enable you to keep the bore of the rifle in line with the target. You then need to look through your mounted scope. If you can see the target in your scope as well as through the bore you are on the right track. You will need to centre the target so its sitting in the middle of the bore hole. You then need to zero the reticle onto the centre of the target by adjusting the elevation and windage knobs until it suits you. This is only a ROUGH process that will allow you to at least hit paper with your first few bullets at the range.

2) Set up a target. I like to do this at 50m first because i dont have a boresighting tool, so my boresights are just by eye as explained above and usually abit rough. Being as precise with your shooting as possible put a 5 shot group into the 50m target. Check you group and then accomodate via changes to the elevation/windage turrets. You want to bring your group to the CENTRE of the target.

3) If you shoot a group for example that is 3" right of centre and 3" low of centre you need to accomodate. This is easy at the 100m range because you scopes turrets are set to MOA or MilRad at 100m. For example 1moa @ 100 = roughly 1", or 1 MilRad = 10cm at 100m. Depending on your turret type you will need to adjust accordingly. So for example to bring a reticle up to hit a spot that is 3" low with 1/4 MOA turrets you will need to click up 3 MOA and to do this you will need 12 clicks ( remember we have 4 x 1/4MOA clicks to 1 MOA @ 100)

4) If you are shooting at 50 rather than 100 you will need to double you value. The reason for this is because if you are shooting 1" to the right at 50m, this will equate to 2" to the right at 100m and as the distance gets further so does the drift away from centre.

Sounds confusing but once you have done it, its very easy

Scopes are not made to cause confusion. They are made to work in the most logical way you possible to avoid confusion.

So if your shooting too low and to the right, your scope needs to adjust HIGHER and to the LEFT. Its just like driving a car. If your header towards the right side of the road but your realy need to be on the left side, you turn the car left yea?

Same principles for your scope

 

[DeviousSB]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

Jack, dont be discouraged, this is one of those sports where intellect is just as important as ability. It takes some time to learn and really digest all the nuances.

Try this for understanding a 20MOA base orientation. Take your two hands in the air open them so they are flat and put one directly above the other. Your hand on top represents your scope, your hand on the bottom represents your rifle. They should be parallel to each other just like a typical flat mount scope on a rifle.

Now, take your top hand and angle it downwards, so your top hands fingers point slightly towards the ground. This is how your scope is oriented with a 20MOA base. Now keep in mind that your scope is mounted to your rifle so when your scope moves your rifle must do the same thing (the angle between your hands should remain the same). Point your scope hand (top) at straight out at your theoretical target, your rifle hand should now be pointed slightly up in the air.

The upward angle of your rifle hand projects the theoretical bullet in a higher arc than a flat rifle. This leads to an increase in bullet distance even though you have not adjusted your scope elevation at all.

Hopefully that didnt confuse you even more.

 

[Lindy]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

The instructions seem backward because of this. In order to raise the point of impact, you must move the reticle downward in the tube. That <span style="font-weight: bold">is</span> the direction marked "UP" on the turrets, because the turrets are marked to move the point of impact.

When you move the reticle downward, you must then raise the muzzle of the rifle to put the point of aim back on the target - which raises the point of impact.

And it's the same with left and right. If you want to move the point of impact to the left, you move the reticle to the right. When you go to put the scope back on the target, you have moved the muzzle to the left.

The easiest thing to do is to remember that the turrets are marked in the direction you want the point of impact to move.

 

[Elxx]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jackh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ya i got a 20 moa base too and i still dont understand why it angles down instead of up... </div></div>

It's so you must raise your scope, thus raising the tip of the barrel. I'll draw a little picture if you need help visualizing.

 

[jackh]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The instructions seem backward because of this. In order to raise the point of impact, you must move the reticle downward in the tube. That <span style="font-weight: bold">is</span> the direction marked "UP" on the turrets, because the turrets are marked to move the point of impact.

When you move the reticle downward, you must then raise the muzzle of the rifle to put the point of aim back on the target - which raises the point of impact.

And it's the same with left and right. If you want to move the point of impact to the left, you move the reticle to the right. When you go to put the scope back on the target, you have moved the muzzle to the left.

<span style="color: #FF0000">The easiest thing to do is to remember that the turrets are marked in the direction you want the point of impact to mov</span>e.
</div></div>

wow now it makes sense, maybe i was just thinking about it bass akwards?

devious- yes now that makes more sense too, thanks guys

 

[vman]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

jackh just remember that scopes are not supposed to be complicated.

If you need to be shooting up to bring yourself on target, then turn the knobs in the UP direction.

If you need to go right, then click right and vice versa.

Once you have done the zero process once everything will become clear

 

[jackh]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The instructions seem backward because of this. In order to raise the point of impact, you must move the reticle downward in the tube. That <span style="font-weight: bold">is</span> the direction marked "UP" on the turrets, because <span style="color: #FF0000">the turrets are marked to move the point of impact.</span>
</div></div>

this makes it clear now. ok so when i am turning the turret towards "UP", i am actually moving the reticle down, thus bringing the gun up when i re-center on target?

 

[Lindy]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

Correct! You got it!

 

[OptedOut]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

JackH,
Find an 'ole timer in your area, take him out for a cup of coffee and have him explain or better, show you some things.

 

[mdmp5]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jackh</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you think thats bad, i am getting a base with 20 moa. i thought the tall part of the base would go to the front of the rifle. but its the opposite, the base with 20 moa of elevation actually points the scope down, not up. think about that for a while. it took me a bit to get that one right in my mind </div></div>

ya i got a 20 moa base too and i still dont understand why it angles down instead of up...</div></div>

Try to think of it like this. If a scope is pointing on a downward angle relative to the barrel, then all of the shots will hit high relative to the aiming point. In order to correct this, the scope is angled back up until the point of impact and line of sight matches. The downward angle of the base enables you to align the POI with the line of sight much further than if you were using a base that was perfectly parallel with the barrel.

 

[jackh]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

it is slowly making more and more sense. thankyou

 

[Quackaddict]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

The base tips down in front because the scope is actually doing the opposite of what you think it is. When you turn the scope turrets "up" you are actually moving the reticule down in the erector tube, thus moving the barrel up and increasing the angle at which it is fired.

FYI, I do the same thing you did with your base with signature inserts every time....

 

[skandlus]

Re: noob- zeroing a scope

I just went thru the same deal... I got pissed cause I thought the dude didnt know what he was doin and put th 20 moa base on backwards... well after a lengthy discussion, I was still pissed. I musta looked like a fool. Then driving home I got it and it made sense. You'll have the same epiphany once it hits you. Its all about compensating for what you dont have. Like the little dude in cigarette boat. good luck bro