The 140 RDF worked for me when the throat was almost gone in my Tikka 260 barrel. I was using IMR4451 as H4350 was hard to find. I was jumping them .1" or more. I was only getting 2640 fps suppressed out of a 20", but I was making 1st round hits past 1200 yards. It would shoot under .5", but I would have some groups that looked like a 3 shot and a 2 shot group.
- Thread starter clcustom1911
- Start date
Great, thank you.
Man, this is really disappointing to read.
I want to start reloading soon and I think these bullets would be such an attractive option for the price and bc if you could get them up to about 3000fps at .615 G1 bc if the factory bc holds up in reality.
It’s really attractive to me because it seems like the recoil difference between a 130 grain rdf with a g1 bc of .615 going 3000 FPS out of a 6.5 Creedmoor wouldn’t be that much more than a 115 dtac with a g1 bc of .620 going 3100 FPS out of a 6mm Creedmoor and the extra barrel life and flexibility of heavier 6.5 bullets for hunting would be really nice.
I’d definitely love to hear any reports of the details of how you did it if anyone has been able to push these in the 2900-3000 FPS range with .5 moa or better precision.
I want to start reloading soon and I think these bullets would be such an attractive option for the price and bc if you could get them up to about 3000fps at .615 G1 bc if the factory bc holds up in reality.
It’s really attractive to me because it seems like the recoil difference between a 130 grain rdf with a g1 bc of .615 going 3000 FPS out of a 6.5 Creedmoor wouldn’t be that much more than a 115 dtac with a g1 bc of .620 going 3100 FPS out of a 6mm Creedmoor and the extra barrel life and flexibility of heavier 6.5 bullets for hunting would be really nice.
I’d definitely love to hear any reports of the details of how you did it if anyone has been able to push these in the 2900-3000 FPS range with .5 moa or better precision.
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I don’t shoot a creed but I have gotten them over 3000 but that was hot with slight ejector swipe no hard bolt lift. I was shooting like 6.6 mils at 1345 and had 4 out of 5 hits the last one I did not catch a shift in the wind. With a 24 or 26” barrel you could probably get them to 3000
Was that with a 260?
I’m thinking about just calling a gunsmith that is willing to talk about it and hopefully have them spin me up a barrel after asking what to do as far as reamer choice /powder choice /loading practices to give the best chance of getting as close to or over 3000 FPS with = to or < .5 moa precision.
I’m thinking about just calling a gunsmith that is willing to talk about it and hopefully have them spin me up a barrel after asking what to do as far as reamer choice /powder choice /loading practices to give the best chance of getting as close to or over 3000 FPS with = to or < .5 moa precision.
In my JP 6.5 Creedmoor 22" 1:8 twist semi auto I tried the following with the 130 RDFs:
40.8-42.4 RL16
40.8-42.4 H4350
34.0-35.0 AR Comp
37.6-38.6 Varget
All loaded at 2.825, 210M primer. I'd have to measure the throat with the 130 RDF's again as I forgot to record the jump for the 130 RDF's in my spreadsheet but I think it about 0.050" jump. Can't really chase the lands in an AR10 magazine, only seat deeper to increase jump, LOL
All the groups were terrible. The worst load with the 130 ELD-M was far, far better than the best 130 RDF group. While I tried 130 ELDM's and had excellent accuracy and a good node I ended up sticking with the 123 Scenar in that gun as they were the easier on the brass.
In my 6.5 Creedmoor bolt gun with a 28" 8 twist barrel with the 130 RDF I tried the following:
42-43.2 RL16
42.2-43.4 H4350
All with 210M primers. I also tried multiple steps from 0.005" jump to 0.100" jump. The best RDF group I ever saw at 300Y while doing testing was much worse than the worst 140 ELD-M load I tested. The 130 RDF groups were so bad I really couldn't determine a powder node to aim for, they were all over the damn place. At one point I started to question if I had an optic issue or a loose scope mount/rings; shot a few 140 ELDM in the middle of my RDF OCW test and confirmed the rifle was OK, the 130 RDF groups were just that bad.
The 140 RDF's in my 6.5 Creedmoor bolt gun weren't horrible... they were about the equivalent of my "middle of the road" 140 ELD-M load. Some were decent (1/2 MOA for 3 shots @ 300Y during OCW testing.) However, the 140 RDF's liked to do the "2 groups" thing that others mentioned earlier where you would shoot 10 rounds at a target and have two distinct groups. Both pretty good if taken on their own, but that "2 group" behavior isn't acceptable for a single bullet and load.
The 6mm 105 RDF's in my 6 Dasher shoot pretty damn good though, about 1/3-1/2 MOA at 300Y on paper, but have an occasional flyer. They're not as good as Berger 105 Hybrids which run about 1/4-1/3 MOA and don't throw fliers. I've been finishing up the box of 500 105 RDF's I have on steel at 700Y and in and saving the Bergers for longer range stuff.
As I mentioned earlier, I wasted a lot of time and components on the .224 70 RDFs and 6.5 130 RDF's trying to get them to shoot. I really wanted the RDF's to work better because the price is right and it's always nice to have another option on the market for high BC bullets.
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The weight variation is what I can't stand about this bullet, and the design looks good, but bugger me they don't group anywhere near as well as bergers and Lapua in 6mm form. I batch weighed a 500 count box and ended up with 7 piles with the heaviest batch coming in at 105.20gr and the lightest at 104.50gr - unacceptable for a so-called match grade bullet and that right there is going to result in flyers if you're not sorting them by weight as a bare minimum. I can't see myself buying anymore of these things despite the attractive pricing. Nosler need to go back and improve their QC and tolerances on these things.
I *should* be able to get 2900+ with Alliant Reloder 17. It's known for higher velocities without exceedingly high pressures. I'll post my results. If this stupid rain stops I'll be shooting all day tomorrow.
Thank you for that detailed response. That's indeed a lot of work and time dedicated on those bullets for no appreciable return.
Got my black foam board with .75" orange spots all done up for my load development testing tomorrow. I got another board made up for Reloder 17 as well.
I'm gonna bring my Caldwell Bluetooth chronograph to see if I can do MV at the same time as group sizes, but it's hit and miss (pun intended) on catching 100% of readings. I figure as long as I can get groupings going, I can then test 2 or 3 10-shot strings in the future to get a solid average MV on the good groups then start walking them out to 500+ for BC validation and whatnot.
And the one for "the great unknown" Nosler 130 RDF's ???
I'm gonna bring my Caldwell Bluetooth chronograph to see if I can do MV at the same time as group sizes, but it's hit and miss (pun intended) on catching 100% of readings. I figure as long as I can get groupings going, I can then test 2 or 3 10-shot strings in the future to get a solid average MV on the good groups then start walking them out to 500+ for BC validation and whatnot.
And the one for "the great unknown" Nosler 130 RDF's ???
My son ended up at 44 grains of H4350, Prime brass, CCI200 primers, and the 130 Norma to duplicate the factory Prime load in his RPR 6.5 Creedmoor. 2835 fps if I remember right.
That's excellent info, thank you. That's an above book max load according to my Sierra and other manuals. I personally don't like doing max loads if I can avoid them.
Max book loads are not Max loads for your rifle just work up slow checking for pressure signs, your rifle will tell you when it is to hot
He had no pressure signs even in 100 plus degree temperatures. The Ruger chamber was loose compared to my Tikka chamber. His fired brass would not come close to going into my barrel.
I know. It's just personal preference.
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OK, so...... Shot 'em. Got a couple of good groups that I need to measure out. I'll post pics tomorrow or Friday. Some groups were definitely sub-MOA, but the SD's weren't tickling my fanny. Would have 2 or 3 close to touching then the RDF Event (Random Damn Flier) effect besmirched my own confidence in my shooting abilities, or made me think I forgot to call a flier because I twitched or some shit.
Here is the basic velocity and SD info from my chrono:
No "danger" pressure signs other than some primer catering (not flattening). More info to follow in the coming 48 hours.
To show I can kinda shoot whilst sitting at an uncomfortable and wooden bench using my bipod and tactical, rice filled, black sock rear bag.... ????
here are my H4350 loads pushing Norma 130g Golden Target projectiles. Those are 3/4" orange spots. I think I have some fliers I called, but I don't have my notes in front of me. My largest group was .770". Not too shabby. The Reloder 17 didn't much like tha Norma 130g, but it liked the Hornady 147 ELDm... more testing on that'n to come.
Here is the basic velocity and SD info from my chrono:
No "danger" pressure signs other than some primer catering (not flattening). More info to follow in the coming 48 hours.
To show I can kinda shoot whilst sitting at an uncomfortable and wooden bench using my bipod and tactical, rice filled, black sock rear bag.... ????
here are my H4350 loads pushing Norma 130g Golden Target projectiles. Those are 3/4" orange spots. I think I have some fliers I called, but I don't have my notes in front of me. My largest group was .770". Not too shabby. The Reloder 17 didn't much like tha Norma 130g, but it liked the Hornady 147 ELDm... more testing on that'n to come.
Id recommended you do a later test working up in .3 grain increments. My sd is rarely higher than 10 when I find my node and then I tune my seating depth
Precisely. I plan on going in between the already tested charges by switching my scale to milligram mode. Gotta keep it spicy!
OK, so....... I didn't weigh-sort these bullets before this load development shenanigan. I sorted the rest of what I had and the majority was 130 and 130.1gr. Had as low as 129.71 and as high as 130.38.
Brass: Prime (Norma)
Primer: Rem 9 1/2
OAL: 2.775" (Nosler recommended)
Rifle: RPR
Barrel: Proof Stainless M24, 24" prefit.
Brake: APA Little Bastard
Position: Sitting at bench, bipod and rear bag.
The groups are.... Meh... nothing blowing my skirt up.
Brass: Prime (Norma)
Primer: Rem 9 1/2
OAL: 2.775" (Nosler recommended)
Rifle: RPR
Barrel: Proof Stainless M24, 24" prefit.
Brake: APA Little Bastard
Position: Sitting at bench, bipod and rear bag.
The groups are.... Meh... nothing blowing my skirt up.
I'm switching to Federal 210M Primers, and a doing a load up with BL(C)2, a bit faster than H4350 and RL17. I'm also gonna try Varget like @308Gunner suggested.
My Norma Golden Target 130's did just fine and dandy with H4350
My Norma Golden Target 130's did just fine and dandy with H4350
On a side note....
Today, after finally measuring my base-to-ogive/lands engagement....
I found out I was jumping the RDF's about .055"!!! (Oops)
So, now I have them weight-sorted, with a faster power per @308Gunner recommendation, and set to jump .030" and we'll go from there.
Today, after finally measuring my base-to-ogive/lands engagement....
I found out I was jumping the RDF's about .055"!!! (Oops)
So, now I have them weight-sorted, with a faster power per @308Gunner recommendation, and set to jump .030" and we'll go from there.
Just an FYI, but some chambers like a loooooooonnnnnngggggg jump with RDF's. Think SAAMI mag length.
I wish you all the luck in the world. I’ve been reloading for rifle over 30 years and the 130 RDF has been the most frustrating/disappointing bullet to load so far.
I'm thinking of potentially using my standard LR/SR PMags instead of my AICS pattern mags.
You know what? I'm doing it.
TO THE SEATING DIE WE GO!!
.....OK, now they're seated to fit within my LR/SR PMags which gives them .060" jump. I don't know when I'm going to shoot them, but they're there, and they're shiny.... Which is half the battle.
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BLC(2), seated .060" off the lands FOR THE WIN!!!
Weight sorted the bullets because they were all over the place. Changed to a faster powder, BLC(2). Did a head to head comparison with Remington 9 1/2 primers against Federal 210M
On the spots, Rem 9 1/2 on left column, Fed 210M on right column
Cool beans.
Weight sorted the bullets because they were all over the place. Changed to a faster powder, BLC(2). Did a head to head comparison with Remington 9 1/2 primers against Federal 210M
On the spots, Rem 9 1/2 on left column, Fed 210M on right column
Cool beans.
Thanks man. It's was your suggestion of using a faster powder that got me here. I really appreciate it.
I had zero pressure signs at all, so I'm probably gonna try 41.3 and 41.4 just to see what happens. But this will be my "inside of 1000" loading.
My 147 ELDm is gonna be my longer range round. I tested RL16, RL17, and RL23 yesterday as well. Great data on all of them.... Almost too much data.
Got a buddy that just finished a load with the 140s and it's around 1/4" for him and the 105s in my dasher are .35"
Thats a +/-0.14% variation in weight, not worth sorting for that. So weight difference cannot be the cause of the fliers, must be something else (non-concentric lead core?)
