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Not Chambering

Chiller

Chiller

Moderator
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Dec 18, 2008
    6,122
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    Sole resident of Mt. Crumpit.
    #1
    I seem to have my opportunities:

    I am having a reloading issue that is not letting the round chamber

    Brass: Remington .260 Twice Fired

    Bullet: Hornady .260 Amax

    I have cleaned the brass and begin the resizing process. My first step is to bump the shoulder back. I have taken a fired and cleaned .40SW piece of brass as a comparator and measured a FL sized piece of brass to be .003-.005 longer that a virgin piece of Remington .260 brass.

    The next step is through the neck die for .002 neck tension and then finally seat the bullet to an OL 2.865”.

    Prior to introducing the FL die I have fired the bullet (Factory load), and reloaded once before using the same neck tension/bullet/OAL and everything chambered and went nicely. Now I cannot get the lugs to engage. Where am I messing up?
     
    #2
    Re: Not Chambering

    Bumping the shoulders back too far may cause the case body to expand slightly, thus making it over sized.....had that happen to my .220 swift AI. Try backing off your body die a bit and see what happens.
     
    #4
    Re: Not Chambering

    The sholder is in the wrong position 99% (base to sholder is too long). or the neck is too long 1%.

    One can be measured with calipers (neck) the other with a case micrometer (RCBS) or StoneyPoint tool (ne.e Hornady).

    But since you have a case that is too long, and this is clearly a die setup issue:

    Turn the die in by 1/8 turn (approx 0.002) and atempt to resize the case. If it remains too long, repeat until the case is not too long or you cannot raise the ram far enough.

    After each sizing trip, put the unprimed unpowdered unbulleted case into the chamber and close the bolt. Until you can close the bolt without force on the sized case, there is NO reason to do anything other than continue to adjust the sizing die inward.

    In the case you can't raise ram high enough, you will need to take a few thou off the face of the case holder insert into the ram.
     
    #6
    Re: Not Chambering

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


    After each sizing trip, put the unprimed unpowdered unbulleted case into the chamber and close the bolt. Until you can close the bolt without force on the sized case, there is NO reason to do anything other than continue to adjust the sizing die inward.


    </div></div>

    When you say no force just enought to engage the lugs?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    In the case you can't raise ram high enough, you will need to take a few thou off the face of the case holder insert into the ram.

    </div></div>

    How do you do this?
     
    #8
    Re: Not Chambering

    This is exactly what is happening to me. I have the die all the way down on the shell holder with considerable over-camming on the press. Shell (sized but unloaded) chambers, but barely. It is definitely hitting the chamber pretty hard at the shoulder.

    I need to have either the die or the shell holder machined. My question is why have the shell holder faced instead of the die. Is it just the difference in cost between the die and the shell holder?
     
    #9
    Re: Not Chambering

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GreatGonzo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I need to have either the die or the shell holder machined. My question is why have the shell holder faced instead of the die. Is it just the difference in cost between the die and the shell holder?</div></div>

    Always modify the cheapest piece to replace.
     
    #10
    Re: Not Chambering

    Or buy the competition shell holders from Redding.

    Personally I removed some metal from the shell holder on two of mine. It makes everything a little easier to setup. I ended up removing .010" on one, because .005" wouldn't do the job. Be sure to mark that particular shell holder or keep it in the die box for use with THAT set of dies exclusively. You can mark on the flat top surface that it has been altered with an electric engraving pen. Then marking it with a colored (red, green or blue) permanent marker really makes it stand out.
     
    #11
    Re: Not Chambering

    Can people walk me though what is defined as a “donut” I will snap some photos tonight and post them up. There is a minor change in outer diameter where I can see the neck sizing die has come down and prior to the shoulder junction.

    I have run a the flat edge of the depth gage on my vernier down the neck of the brass and there does not appear to be any distortion. Your help as always is appreciated.
     
    #12
    Re: Not Chambering

    The "donut" is on the inside of the case neck / shoulder junction. It is easily removed with a reamer of the appropriate size. You can buy 2 or 3 for different calibers from MSC supply for what 1 LE Wilson will cost you.
     
    #15
    Re: Not Chambering

    It is common for dies and shell holders to not play well together. Getting a full size, especially with a custom chamber can be a challenge with basic dies.

    The shell holders are not as hard as dies, so they are more machinable. You just have to be careful not to take too much off, as it is a safty feature for some reloaders. Bump the shoulder back too far, and you may end up with an unsafe headspace condition.
     
    #17
    Re: Not Chambering

    "Turn the die in by 1/8 turn (approx 0.002)"

    Not quite, in fact not by a factor of about 4.5 times. A 1/35th turn of the die is about .002" of change. A die moves 71.4 thou per full turn, meaning 1/8th turn equals 8.9 thou change, call it 9 thou. Since the full range of headspace for most bottle neck cartridges is around 6-7 thou, a 1/8th turn exceeds the total allowable headspace range in one step.

    If the problem is that the die is too long for the chamber (and it is), don't foul up a good shell holder, just grind a tad off the bottom of the die. To be precise about it you could measure how long the die body now is and carefully grind off a couple thou, then try it for a fit; repeat until successful. Suspect you gonna need to remove maybe 5 thou to get comfortable, less than that should allow you to close the bolt even if it were tight.
     
    #18
    Re: Not Chambering

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GreatGonzo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I need to have either the die or the shell holder machined. My question is why have the shell holder faced instead of the die. Is it just the difference in cost between the die and the shell holder? </div></div>


    Because you always work the cheaper easier to replace part... And it is simpler to do as well.
     
    #20
    Re: Not Chambering

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kinsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another possibility that has not been touched on here is that the bullet seating die is set too low, and is causing the shoulder area to expand when the bullet is seated.
    </div></div>

    Tis is an excellent point, and a valid observation of what may have been missed! </div></div>

    IF I am loading to 2.880 how could the bullet die be causing a problem?
     
    #21
    Re: Not Chambering

    The idea is that if you hit the crimping ring too hard you can drive necks back and bulge the shoulders. If that were true you would likely have noticed it.
     
    #22
    Re: Not Chambering

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kinsman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another possibility that has not been touched on here is that the bullet seating die is set too low, and is causing the shoulder area to expand when the bullet is seated.
    </div></div>

    Tis is an excellent point, and a valid observation of what may have been missed! </div></div>

    IF I am loading to 2.880 how could the bullet die be causing a problem?</div></div>

    What dies are you using?
     
    #25
    Re: Not Chambering

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Redding Comp Dies.</div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Redding Comp Dies.</div></div>

    Is the seater stem in the comp die still in good shape ?
     
    #26
    Re: Not Chambering

    i am sure some parts have been sourted out,

    Now just start to get the case to fit the chamber without any other item. you should get a guage a 40s&w case realy is not the best.

    What you need to do is measure a fired case from the chamber with a guage and if you use the case for this it will get you close. now place a case in your shell holder and full length size it. remeasure the sized case you want it to be .001 to .0005 thou shorter than the case was when it was fired this is important. you dont want to undersize the case as the cases grow slightly as the die starts to work then it pushes them back most dies will shorten the case to much. so now you have measured the case after sizing if you have bottomed the die on the shell holder and the case has become to short it might not fit intpot he chamber as the cases can swell at the base. check the length is correct. if you cant resize the case to just under the fired case length then and only then look at removing some metal from the shell holder. The redding com shell holders wont help you this time as they ad .002" thickness between them so they will make the case longer at the full length stroke not shorter they are not going to help you. it is also easier to remove materiel fromt he shell holder if you donthave many tools as the die will need to be re chamfered at the base to make sure you dont have a sharp edge.

    If your case has come to the correct length and wont go into the chamber you will need a small base die and i suspect this is what you might need. the small base sizing die is made for match chambers and as it is descrtibed the base is smaler and it is made for tighter match chambers.

    The small space at tha base of the neck that is larger is where the bushing is not reaching and it retains the larger diameter of the chamber this is not the issue.

    Just dont trim a die back as you will likley create excessive headspace.

    I know with most 284 redding dies we need to remove some materiel from the base as they will not resize a case back to 0 headspace where we like to chamber our rifles.

    Hope this helps you MUST measure the headspace off a fired case then a sized case also RCBS makes a great tool for this.
     
    #27
    Re: Not Chambering

    Virgin 260

    2j1tyrp.jpg


    Sized 260

    20fu4jl.jpg


    Empty Sized in Chamber

    241o8ao.jpg


    Chamber closed

    2w7qrv7.jpg


    Working Loaded

    27x3qsz.jpg
     
    #30
    Re: Not Chambering

    But does the bolt close without having to hammer it? Having a .034" jam is going to make it tight also. Ever thought about backing that off a bit? Making the "before" round the same length as the "after"?
     
    #34
    Re: Not Chambering

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chiller, do you understand the posts indicating that you could be moving the shoulder in the seating die?

    Measure a case after sizing just under the shoulder, and measure the cases which will not chamber in the same area. </div></div>

    This would be the bullet seating die?
     
    #36
    Re: Not Chambering

    The seating die is the set up that will get you confused. As the body of the die does not seem to matter where it is adjusted, as you adjust the seater to set the bullet the proper depth. If the body of the die is run down to far, the seater portion can bottom out and crush the shoulder making the od where the body meets the shoulder over size.

    Try coloring the case completely and run it into the chamber, see where the marker is rubbed off.
     
    #43
    Re: Not Chambering

    with the case you are using to set up our sizing die you have to measure a fired case not a new case as the new cases are always undersize. set your sizing die up to be 1 thou shorter than a fired case this is a must if you want your cases to last.
     
    #44
    Re: Not Chambering

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... so what did the problem end up being? </div></div>

    It appeared to be a cascade of a couple of items. I had not set the body die properly which resulted in a brass flow problem. Once I resolved that I had to send them through the Guriard again to bring it back into spec. I also backed my bullet down to 2.845 so I am not engaging the lands.

    Will confirm fire this week and report back.
     
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