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Night Vision NV Newbie

GUNNER75

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Jun 29, 2005
    1,266
    235
    48
    SW KS
    Ok fellas, be easy on me. Call me lazy for not reading the other stuff, but good god it is above me.

    I would mostly use it on hogs in TX and or just engaging steel at my home range.

    I run Leupolds, 4.5-14, 6.5-20, and 8.5-25. Can you give me a setup that mounts up and additions I need?

    I can deal with eye relief issues.
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    PVS14 with a Day scope adapter. make sure your scope has Px adjustment to get the image sharp. Also some kind of illumination is best. Laser is best but a powerful LED IR torch can be used although the ones sold in the US are not very good.

    We use IR laser with a diffusing 100mw beam that works out to 400-500 yards with ease
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    I'm pretty new to NV as well and still climbing a steep learning curve. I recently bought a PVS-14 NV monocular because it can be used in several different ways and has a Gen 3 image intensifier tube. I recommend you get an "autogated, Gen 3" night vision device with "manual gain control" for better NV performance.

    A PVS-14 can be used on a rifle behind a red dot, such as the Aimpoint T1, or a low-power scope, such as the SpecterDR. In addition, there are screw-on 3x and 5x magnifiers for the PVS-14, and I found a used 3x magnifier on eBay. The PVS-14 doesn't have a reticle<span style="text-decoration: line-through">, so any optic in front of it would need to have NV-compatible reticle illumination - I don't think your Leupolds are NV compatible</span>. <span style="text-decoration: line-through">Some NF scopes are NV compatible, for example.</span>If you want to use the PVS-14 with one of the Leupold scopes you mentioned, you might have to raise the scope so that it aligns with the PVS optical centerline, and the useful magnification would likely be 6x or less. The LaRue PVS-14 mount puts the optical centerline at 1.7", for example, so the choice of a PVS mount should consider the height of the scope.

    If you want higher magnification, you might have to go with a D-760 NV 6x scope, or a PVS-24 in front of your Leupolds - good to 6x or 8x I think. Stick with Gen 3 NV equipment if possible as it will have better resolution ("line pairs per millimeter"), contrast, and signal to noise. No matter how much you pay for your NV sight, it's wasted if it provides a poor image. Some dealers offer a hand-selected image intensifier tube (IIT) for maximum NV performance.

    Then there is the additional question of illumination. If you hunt in bright moonlight you will probably be OKay hog hunting with a good PVS-14 and a NV-compatible red dot optic; if not, then you might need some IR illumination. The illuminator brightness you need depends on how far you want to throw IR photons. Many IR flashlights are good to 50-100 yards or so, and beyond this distance you will probably need a laser IR source like a PEQ-2A. In addition, there are IR and visible light aiming lasers that put a bright spot on the POI<span style="text-decoration: line-through">, so you will avoid the need for a NV-compatible scope reticle for sighting</span>.

    Every aspect of NV seems to a deep pit of technology, additional cost, and many choices. Moreover, government regulations prohibit initial sales of some useful equipment to civilians (LE and mil only).

    As you've probably imagined while reading this post, NV can be a money pit, and it is. You can check out prices of new and used gear on various auction websites and online dealers like TNVC. Be prepared to pay out at least a few thousand dollars for a good working system. A PVS-14 monocular will usually run $2500-3500, depending mainly on the IIT (new or used, "Omni classification", hand selecion,...). Since you don't want to spend hours reading technical websites, I won't post any links, but there are NV-related websites that dive deeply into the subject. If you're deciding between different PVS-14s, the figure of merit is "lines per millimeter" x "signal to noise ratio" -- the higher the better (and often the higher the price).

    I welcome any corrections to what I've written so I can learn a little more about NV.

    PS I noticed that you said NV was "above you", so I suggest that you get together with someone in your area who uses NV equipment. I think hands-on experience will get you some answers to what will work for you without having to read a lot and guess the solution.
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm pretty new to NV as well and still climbing a steep learning curve. I recently bought a PVS-14 NV monocular because it can be used in several different ways and has a Gen 3 image intensifier tube. I recommend you get an "autogated, Gen 3" night vision device with "manual gain control" for better NV performance.

    A PVS-14 can be used on a rifle behind a red dot, such as the Aimpoint T1, or a low-power scope, such as the SpecterDR. In addition, there are screw-on 3x and 5x magnifiers for the PVS-14, and I found a used 3x magnifier on eBay. The PVS-14 doesn't have a reticle, so any optic in front of it would need to have NV-compatible reticle illumination - I don't think your Leupolds are NV compatible. Some NF scopes are NV compatible, for example.

    If you want to use the PVS-14 with one of the Leupold scopes you mentioned, you might have to raise the scope so that it aligns with the PVS optical centerline, and the useful magnification would likely be 6x or less. The LaRue PVS-14 mount puts the optical centerline at 1.7", for example, so the choice of a PVS mount should consider the height of the scope.

    If you want higher magnification, you might have to go with a D-760 NV 6x scope, or a PVS-24 in front of your Leupolds - good to 6x or 8x I think. Stick with Gen 3 NV equipment if possible as it will have better resolution ("line pairs per millimeter"), contrast, and signal to noise. No matter how much you pay for your NV sight, it's wasted if it provides a poor image. Some dealers offer a hand-selected image intensifier tube (IIT) for maximum NV performance.

    Then there is the additional question of illumination. If you hunt in bright moonlight you will probably be OKay hog hunting with a good PVS-14 and a NV-compatible red dot optic; if not, then you might need some IR illumination. The illuminator brightness you need depends on how far you want to throw IR photons. Many IR flashlights are good to 50-100 yards or so, and beyond this distance you will probably need a laser IR source like a PEQ-2A. In addition, there are IR and visible light aiming lasers that put a bright spot on the POI, so you will avoid the need for a NV-compatible scope reticle for sighting.

    Every aspect of NV seems to a deep pit of technology, additional cost, and many choices. Moreover, government regulations prohibit initial sales of some useful equipment to civilians (LE and mil only).

    As you've probably imagined while reading this post, NV can be a money pit, and it is. You can check out prices of new and used gear on various auction websites and online dealers like TNVC. Be prepared to pay out at least a few thousand dollars for a good working system. A PVS-14 monocular will usually run $2500-3500, depending mainly on the IIT (new or used, "Omni classification", hand selecion,...). Since you don't want to spend hours reading technical websites, I won't post any links, but there are NV-related websites that dive deeply into the subject. If you're deciding between different PVS-14s, the figure of merit is "lines per millimeter" x "signal to noise ratio" -- the higher the better (and often the higher the price).

    I welcome any corrections to what I've written so I can learn a little more about NV.

    PS I noticed that you said NV was "above you", so I suggest that you get together with someone in your area who uses NV equipment. I think hands-on experience will get you some answers to what will work for you without having to read a lot and guess the solution. </div></div>

    a day optic with non illuminated reticle works fine with a pvs-14. you do not need an illuminated reticle. actually if you have a good scope with good glass i prefer not to have an illum reticle due to the fact they generally bloom a little too much for me.

    i would take the advice of getting the universal adapter from someone like tnvc and this will give you the ability to couple your pvs-14 with almost any scope, binos or spotter etc. it actually works quite well and the versatility of the system is very hard to beat if you are looking for a do it all system.

    hope this helps. feel free to ask questions as i have had a 14 behind alot of shit and tried various things.

    dg
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    DGUNN - I've seen the adaptor you mentioned. What does the sight picture look like when the PVS-14 is behind a 60mm spotting scope with a minimum magnification of 20x (3mm exit pupil)? For example, is the FOV full or a smallish dot of an image?
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    its actually far bigger than you would think. it seems really close as far as having the full field of view. there will be a certain magnification range it seems on almost any variable power optic where the image seems to bloom internally somehow kinda like the multiple lenses in the scope are too close or something but if you keep it in the sweet spot of the mag range you are golden.
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    I just found this picture of the universal mount with a Leupold scope mounted on a Mk12 SPR rifle - this looks pretty compact, I like it and it answers the OP's question about his Leupolds. Thanks for the comment about the sight picture.

    From the TNVC website:

    UniAdptr_PVS14_4.jpg
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    Fellas, thanks a million for the advice. Money is a large issue with this project as I am only allowed $4500 ish to complete it. Looks like I am pushing it. I better look into getting a bit of allowance to bump this up.

    I like the PVS14 route as it allows for so many options as running with red dot, day optic, spotting scope, etc.

    I failed to mention that the optic used the most will be a 3.5-10x40 Leupold TMR followed by the 4.5-14x50 TMR.

    As far as red dot sights, I run the CQT Leupold on occasion that is NV compatible. An Aimpoint would most likely fall into place once I get this up and going.

    Where is the go to place to purchase? I would like a one stop shop if at all possible.

    On a side note, we discussed running a dedicated NV optic with reticle today and swapping optics out. I am not opposed to this, but really like the idea of using the PVS14 on a Leupold MK4 spotter as well.

    Thanks again!
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    I think people on SH would recommend Victor at TNVC. You can save money by getting only the specific equipment you need, there are many kits with lots of accessories for head and helmet mounting that you may not want. Talk to Victor about your needs and budget, he may have an SH or LE/mil discount, I dunno.
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    Cool I'll check it out. The extras I don't need for sure.
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    Get a 2nd hand PVS14 around the 2002-2004 ERA - They are the best tubes going, High performance Pinnacle and recoil proof due to better halo figures.

    $2500 range some on the hide for sale right now. check before you buy.

    DONT use illuminated reticles. No need and a dumb idea. Who ever started to talk about lit reticles and night vision needs to be shot. This will damage and burn your tube a nice reticle in to it!

    Also those aimpoint / eotech are a shitty way to shoot with a PVS14.

    Also get a Weaver classic extreme rifle scope 2.5-10x56 this is a VERY good scope for use with a PVS14. Zero internal reflections and very nice clear image inside. Forget Leupold.

    Dont listen to all the scaremongering about used NV from dealers. I have NV with 10 year old tubes running better than fresh off the line 2009/2010 tubes.

    Just try it before you buy it.
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a 2nd hand PVS14 around the 2002-2004 ERA - They are the best tubes going, High performance Pinnacle and recoil proof due to better halo figures.

    $2500 range some on the hide for sale right now. check before you buy.

    DONT use illuminated reticles. No need and a dumb idea. Who ever started to talk about lit reticles and night vision needs to be shot. This will damage and burn your tube a nice reticle in to it!

    Also those aimpoint / eotech are a shitty way to shoot with a PVS14.

    Also get a Weaver classic extreme rifle scope 2.5-10x56 this is a VERY good scope for use with a PVS14. Zero internal reflections and very nice clear image inside. Forget Leupold.

    Dont listen to all the scaremongering about used NV from dealers. I have NV with 10 year old tubes running better than fresh off the line 2009/2010 tubes.

    Just try it before you buy it. </div></div>

    i agree with millspec for the most part. you have to shop around carefully but good used nods are out there. with the life span in the 10,000hr range i doubt you will burn one up.

    i have used my pvs-14 on many scopes and it really works great. just play around and find what works. the mark 4 3.5x10 will be your best scope to use in my opinion. mag in the 3.5 to 6-7 range will usually perform the best. an ir unit like a peq-2 will take you that much farther. with your budget being $4500 you should have no problem obtaining a great pvs-14, universal adapter, possibly a rhino helmet mount and possibly a used peq-2 or something. shop slow and methodically.

    dg
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DGUNN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a 2nd hand PVS14 around the 2002-2004 ERA - They are the best tubes going, High performance Pinnacle and recoil proof due to better halo figures.

    $2500 range some on the hide for sale right now. check before you buy.

    DONT use illuminated reticles. No need and a dumb idea. Who ever started to talk about lit reticles and night vision needs to be shot. This will damage and burn your tube a nice reticle in to it!

    Also those aimpoint / eotech are a shitty way to shoot with a PVS14.

    Also get a Weaver classic extreme rifle scope 2.5-10x56 this is a VERY good scope for use with a PVS14. Zero internal reflections and very nice clear image inside. Forget Leupold.

    Dont listen to all the scaremongering about used NV from dealers. I have NV with 10 year old tubes running better than fresh off the line 2009/2010 tubes.

    Just try it before you buy it. </div></div>

    i agree with millspec for the most part. you have to shop around carefully but good used nods are out there. with the life span in the 10,000hr range i doubt you will burn one up.

    i have used my pvs-14 on many scopes and it really works great. just play around and find what works. the mark 4 3.5x10 will be your best scope to use in my opinion. mag in the 3.5 to 6-7 range will usually perform the best. an ir unit like a peq-2 will take you that much farther. with your budget being $4500 you should have no problem obtaining a great pvs-14, universal adapter, possibly a rhino helmet mount and possibly a used peq-2 or something. shop slow and methodically.

    dg </div></div>

    Well there is alot more to scopes than just the magnification when using the PVS14. There has been way more work done here in the UK than the US on using monoculars behind day scopes.

    One of the big things is image quality and image distortion created by the internal optics of a day scope, also invisible reflections on the internal lenses. These are not there in the daytime but when you put the monocular on the back then you can see them.

    Its hard to find a scope that the PVS14 can have the reticle 100% focused and also the image in 100% focus. Normally there is a compromise between focuses and you can play to find the best image.

    We highly recommend scopes with side paralax adjustment this enables a crisper image than scopes without.

    Some scopes are better than others and its all about trial and error.
     
    Re: NV Newbie

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DGUNN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a 2nd hand PVS14 around the 2002-2004 ERA - They are the best tubes going, High performance Pinnacle and recoil proof due to better halo figures.

    $2500 range some on the hide for sale right now. check before you buy.

    DONT use illuminated reticles. No need and a dumb idea. Who ever started to talk about lit reticles and night vision needs to be shot. This will damage and burn your tube a nice reticle in to it!

    Also those aimpoint / eotech are a shitty way to shoot with a PVS14.

    Also get a Weaver classic extreme rifle scope 2.5-10x56 this is a VERY good scope for use with a PVS14. Zero internal reflections and very nice clear image inside. Forget Leupold.

    Dont listen to all the scaremongering about used NV from dealers. I have NV with 10 year old tubes running better than fresh off the line 2009/2010 tubes.

    Just try it before you buy it. </div></div>

    i agree with millspec for the most part. you have to shop around carefully but good used nods are out there. with the life span in the 10,000hr range i doubt you will burn one up.

    i have used my pvs-14 on many scopes and it really works great. just play around and find what works. the mark 4 3.5x10 will be your best scope to use in my opinion. mag in the 3.5 to 6-7 range will usually perform the best. an ir unit like a peq-2 will take you that much farther. with your budget being $4500 you should have no problem obtaining a great pvs-14, universal adapter, possibly a rhino helmet mount and possibly a used peq-2 or something. shop slow and methodically.

    dg </div></div>

    Well there is alot more to scopes than just the magnification when using the PVS14. There has been way more work done here in the UK than the US on using monoculars behind day scopes.

    One of the big things is image quality and image distortion created by the internal optics of a day scope, also invisible reflections on the internal lenses. These are not there in the daytime but when you put the monocular on the back then you can see them.

    Its hard to find a scope that the PVS14 can have the reticle 100% focused and also the image in 100% focus. Normally there is a compromise between focuses and you can play to find the best image.

    We highly recommend scopes with side paralax adjustment this enables a crisper image than scopes without.

    Some scopes are better than others and its all about trial and error. </div></div>

    i agree millspec, i was just letting him know what scope he has in his possesion will work the best. i still say its the 3.5x10. my.02