F T/R Competition OK got some matches coming up...

[Capt Beach]

I have promised myself I will get back into competitive shooting...Camp Butner is just a couple hours away in NC and is a regional hub for F-Class...I plan on shooting a couple of matched this spring and early summer.

What would you F-Classers advise me to do to get ready...

Rifle is a 110FP in 24" .308 20X SWFA scope on 20MOA EGW, CDI DBM (I know single shot) with a Harris Bipod I plan on shooting FTR.

I have a 60x spotting scope with stand, a range bag, a shooting mat is inbound. I shot with a shooting jacket in the Corps but I dont see many people shooting F Class with this so is this necessary?

What drills or practice regimen can I do to get ready short of range time...my local 300yd range is 45 minutes away.

I have been shooting FGMM 175gr as its as accurate in my gun as any handloads I've been able to come up with so far at .3 to .5MOA fairly consistently. I cant argue with that. So I plan on using FGMM at the matches...a little pricey but hey its accurate...

One thing I do plan on doing is getting a few snap caps and getting into the back yard and doing what we called in the Marines "Snapping In" getting prone and dry firing dozens and dozens of times over and over getting the firing sequence down as muscle memory and really getting my head into the mechanics of it...

Any other tips, advice you can give me is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Capt Beach

 

[bterry]

Best advice is to get out and shoot...we have a match at Butner this weekend. Your gear is fine and will evolve over time. Talk to and watch the other shooters, great bunch of guys and gals who are happy to pass on information. I started a year ago with a Rem 700 5R, NF scope and harris bipod, now I have a comp rig. Refresh your memory on reading wind and mirage, the 1000 yard line at Butner is unforgiving.

 

[ryanjay11]

I haven't found the need for a shooting jacket, but there have been a couple of old highpower shooter that use them. Does your spotting scope dial down from 60 to say 25 or so? They are handy for watching the mirage, but also for seeing a switch by looking at competitors targets. You might get lucky and catch a switch that others didn't when you start hearing curse words and see that everyone is 8 or 9 ring right/left. You might pick up one of these to replace your magazine: Original Bob Sled Loading Block Accuracy International Chassis System

One of the IOTA devices for your scope would allow you to practice with snap caps indoors at about 10 ft.

As mentioned above, the best way to learn is to just do it. Everyone has their own preferences on equipment and seeing what is on the line will help guide you. If you have any questions, just ask at the match or here. Most shooters are willing to give the shirt off their back to a new shooter to help out. Watching the attendance rise is as exciting as beating a personal best in my opinion.

Good luck.

 

[AZ.noob]

Capt Beach,

Not to hijack this thread, but thanks for posting your questions and thanks to those who've responded. I'm soon going to compete in my first F/TR match (600 yds), and I'll be watching this thread closely.

Regarding equipment, can y'all give me some suggestions?
I do not have a spotting scope... I've been saving money to buy a good one, but I'm not quite there yet. Do I need to break out the magic plastic (credit card), or can I get by without one to start?
I also do not yet have a wind meter, but will be taking a wind reading course before competing. Is having a meter absolutely necessary or just convenient?

I keep reading that the best way to learn is to 'just get out there and do it', but I don't want to show up without the necessary gear.

 

[Denys]

My wind meter is my most important device after my backup pen for keeping score. I have one in my bag somewhere, I saw it there a few months ago.

So, which wind reading course will you be taking?

As for the spotting scope, some places allow the scorer to lie down and use their riflescope to score the shooter. If you have binoculars or anything with about 6-8X magnification that would be great. I carry a Tasco monocular 8X32 for scoring duties at shorter ranges. For LR, I just pull up my Kowa from the prone position.

 

[ryanjay11]

For the spotting scope, I think the best bang for your buck is a used Kowa 821m or 82sv. With the 27x long eye relief eyepiece, and a good spotting scope stand, you can look through it and your riflescope at the same time. This prevents you from losing points as the condition changes when you transition back to your riflescope. When you score, you can just raise it to seated height.

This isn't necessary to get started, but it will improve your scores. I shot my first couple of years without the spotting scope and did alright. Once I started learning to read mirage, my scores jumped.

If you are just wanting one to score, you can easily use a pair of binoculars as Denys mentioned previously.

 

[AZ.noob]

So, which wind reading course will you be taking?

Berger is sponsoring the Southwest Long Range Nationals here in Phoenix at my local range, and they're putting on a class on the Tuesday prior to competition. The class is taught by pro shooters & ballisticians, for a whopping $15... now THAT is what I call money and time well spent

 

[pjparker]

Two things come to mind in addition to the above posts.

If you have a decent recoil pad on your rifle, you probably will not need a shooting coat. Very few shooters in either F/O or F/TR seem to use them unless it is in self defense from a hard butt plate.

If your SWFA 20x is the older fixed-power version, you will find that the reticle is so thick that you cannot bisect the X ring. It will work, but it won't allow you to be quite as precise.

Paul

 

[USFTR]

Do you have a velocity of that round out of your rifle? If so, are you still supersonic at 1000? Also, do you have enough elevation to make 1000 yards? These are things new long range shooters sometimes forget to check and end up frustrated on the line.

 

[XTR]

You may have missed the [sarcasm] tag in Denys post. Just thought I'd point it out. Don't waste your funds on a wind meter at this point.

Do you have a velocity of that round out of your rifle? If so, are you still supersonic at 1000? Also, do you have enough elevation to make 1000 yards? These are things new long range shooters sometimes forget to check and end up frustrated on the line.

That FGGM is optimistically in the 2650 to 2700 range from your rifle, probably closer to 2600, but what ever it happens to be you are going to need somewhere in the vicinity of 36 to 40 MOA of come up from your 100 yard zero. If you don't have that much left on the dial then you're not going to be able to get on the targets from the 1000 yard line. I realized that a week before my first ever match and had to get a 30MOA rail delivered 2nd day.

 

[damoncali]

I have promised myself I will get back into competitive shooting...Camp Butner is just a couple hours away in NC and is a regional hub for F-Class...I plan on shooting a couple of matched this spring and early summer.

What would you F-Classers advise me to do to get ready...

Rifle is a 110FP in 24" .308 20X SWFA scope on 20MOA EGW, CDI DBM (I know single shot) with a Harris Bipod I plan on shooting FTR.

I have a 60x spotting scope with stand, a range bag, a shooting mat is inbound. I shot with a shooting jacket in the Corps but I dont see many people shooting F Class with this so is this necessary?

What drills or practice regimen can I do to get ready short of range time...my local 300yd range is 45 minutes away.

I have been shooting FGMM 175gr as its as accurate in my gun as any handloads I've been able to come up with so far at .3 to .5MOA fairly consistently. I cant argue with that. So I plan on using FGMM at the matches...a little pricey but hey its accurate...

One thing I do plan on doing is getting a few snap caps and getting into the back yard and doing what we called in the Marines "Snapping In" getting prone and dry firing dozens and dozens of times over and over getting the firing sequence down as muscle memory and really getting my head into the mechanics of it...

Any other tips, advice you can give me is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Capt Beach

I think you'll find you would like a little more magnification. Even at midrange (600), it's nice to be able to confidently favor one side of the x ring. 40x seems about ideal to me. I don't use a spotting scope while shooting because it slows me down and I'm not all that great at reading mirage anyhow. Your milage may vary on that.

A shooting jacket is totally unnecessary in my view.

A legitimate .5 MOA rifle is plenty good.

The main thing that took me by surprise with F class was shifting to a straight back prone position (vs a crooked one when sling shooting.) Getting everything lined up and square is a huge help in keeping the scope on the target so you can shoot as fast as the guy in the pits allows with minimal positional adjustment. Other than that, I would say F class is a relatively easy, enjoyable discipline. Just show up and shoot. Not much to it.

 

[damoncali]

Capt Beach,

Not to hijack this thread, but thanks for posting your questions and thanks to those who've responded. I'm soon going to compete in my first F/TR match (600 yds), and I'll be watching this thread closely.

Regarding equipment, can y'all give me some suggestions?
I do not have a spotting scope... I've been saving money to buy a good one, but I'm not quite there yet. Do I need to break out the magic plastic (credit card), or can I get by without one to start?
I also do not yet have a wind meter, but will be taking a wind reading course before competing. Is having a meter absolutely necessary or just convenient?

I keep reading that the best way to learn is to 'just get out there and do it', but I don't want to show up without the necessary gear.

You can get by without a scope - you need it for scoring, but someone will have one if your matches are anything like ours. I leave mine in the car sometimes because someone else sets one up first. I like the Kowas- a good balance between quality and price. The main thing is to get an angled eye piece with a long eye relief. That will allow you to use it in the prone position for F class and other high power classes.

A wind meter is a good way to calibrate the eye. You can get a decent one for $50 - there are models that look basically just like a kestrel, but only have the wind and temperature readings. It won't be useful when you're shooting, but if you wander around a bit before the match and take some readings, it can be helpful. Definitely not required, though.

The necessary gear is:

a rifle
rest or bipod (open vs TR)
rear bag
ammunition including spotters, and a few extras in case something goes wrong.
an open bolt indicator
eyes/ears
A good zero at the range you'll be shooting at (or at the very least a good zero at 100, and a carefully calculated one at 600).

That is it.

A shooting mat is nice to have, depending on where you shoot. You will eventually want a scope. The rest of it, you'll figure out as you go.

 

[Tempest 455]

Most important............

Lunch, snacks and plenty of water.

I could never sit there all day long without those.

 

[AZ.noob]

Thanks again guys, I so appreciate your help. To answer some questions, my pet load (190 grain) IS still supersonic at 1K (per JBM), and I do in fact have the elevation travel to dial it. My first rodeo will only be 600yds, so I am just hoping to put them all on paper LOL

 

[Denys]

Capt Beach.

You are lucky to go shooting at Camp Butner. There are many great F-class shooters there and you should learn a great deal from them. The 2012 F-class F-TR national winner shoots there, if my aging memory is not playing games on me; look for Jim Crofts. He came in 5th at both the FCNC and the FCWC this past year.

If you plan to shoot at 1000 yards, you will find that your equipment is not going to make that easy for you; but before going all crazy on upgrading, shoot some matches and talk with the local group there. You can also ask questions here, of course.

If you do get the bug to compete at 1000 yards, you WILL need to get back into handloading and if you can't load better than the FGMM, you may need to improve your handloding skills and equipment.

Let us know how things work out.

 

[Capt Beach]

The SWFA 20X should have 120 MOA built in...and I am running an EGW 20MOA Rail Mount

I will shoot 600 to start with and may dabble at 1000 but I KNOW my current set up while capable of hitting the target at 1000 is not up to competing at 1000...

This is just to test the waters again...

My FGMM shoots .3-.4 while I might be able to load better bullets with better BC .3-.4 is pretty decent accuracy for a gun I built, my hand loads will shoot about .5 to .75...a better scope is on the horizon...I know I am under scoped...

Thanks for the input...

See some of ya'll there...

 

[Denys]

My comment about the FGMM applies to 1000 yard competition and may also have some effect at 600 yards.

What I have seen on paper from people shooting that ammo is that it has a problem holding vertical at extended ranges. At 300 yards it would not be much of an issue.

This may be due to variations in powder load as well as the use of unprepared 175SMK bullets or a combination of both. This is where proper handloads will come in handy, IF you want to be competitive at longer ranges. Just something to consider in the future.

 

[Capt Beach]

My comment about the FGMM applies to 1000 yard competition and may also have some effect at 600 yards.

What I have seen on paper from people shooting that ammo is that it has a problem holding vertical at extended ranges. At 300 yards it would not be much of an issue.

This may be due to variations in powder load as well as the use of unprepared 175SMK bullets or a combination of both. This is where proper handloads will come in handy, IF you want to be competitive at longer ranges. Just something to consider in the future.

OK...I see what your talking about...got any pet loads for 308? Bullets? I've got several hundred rounds of never fired Lapua brass, pounds of IMR 4350 and primers...so...its def 600 and maybe out to a 1000 what would you shoot?

Thanks...

 

[Denys]

I would start with the FGMM, especially if you're shooting at 300 to 600 yards. I suspect you have the shooting experience to see if something is happening at 600 that you cannot blame on your marksmanship. Especially when you are comparing to other shooters firing beside you.

I'm happy to answer your last question above, but again don't let that stop you from going out to shoot in competition right now.

I use Lapua brass, Russian primers, Varget and 180 JLK LBT. Lots of people have great results with the Berger bullets like the 185 Juggernaut or the 155gr. Berger has hybrid bullets that should work very well in various weights and many people have been experimenting with heavier bullets, in the 200+ gr range, trading velocity for BC points. I believe your rifle has a 1:10 twist, so you should be able to shoot any of those bullets.

Just so you know F-Class competition, especially at the higher end, is the sum of 3 things; superb marksmanship, excellent equipment and superlative ammo. The weakest link is always marksmanship, but you never want to leave points on the reloading bench or lose points due to sub-par equipment.

Go to a match and see what people use; this is nothing new for you, just a different variation of what you have seen and done before.

 

[SWRichmond]

Capt,

Butner is a great place to shoot, and to learn. Matches are well-run, organized, formal enough without being oppressive. You need:

1. A relaxed demeanor.
2. Rifle and ammo capable of half a MOA or so (better is better) with consistent velocity; bipod, some kind of rear bag is very desirable but not required. I shot my first year without one. Watch and learn.
3. Shooting mat. Spotting scope needed for scoring; there might be one available but I wouldn't count on it.
4. Food and water. Summer: more water; insect repellent, the fricking fire ants are aggressive. Matches are all-day affairs. If you come without food and water you will run on excitement the first few times and then realize how bad you feel afterwards; hat; sunscreen.
5. Willingness to ask questions when necessary.
6. I started with a SWFA super sniper 16X scope. It worked well enough to convince me I loved the sport and wanted to spend more money on it. I now shoot a Sightron SIII 8-32 MOA2 reticle on about 28X. The 1/8MOA dot fits nicely inside the X ring, or anywhere else I want to put it. Bring a mirage band; you can make one out of almost anything, take a look around at what you see people using.
7. Ballistic data for your load and some confidence that 1 MOA on the scope is actually 1 MOA. You can check this at your home range easily with a target and a ruler. It's worth doing, you might be surprised. If you need help getting on paper say so, preferably early on.
8. Empty Chamber Indicator.
9. Hearing protection.
10. Knowledge of the F-Class rules.
11. Watch people and how they use time. Pay attention to range commands, and when the RO calls your relay to the line, MOVE YOUR STUFF TO THE LINE. Don't wait. Practice moving your stuff to the line (mat, bag with ammo, scope, rifle with ECI, rear bag, etc.); this occurs in a short period of time. You can remove your ECI during the called "preparation period" and dry fire. Do so. Don't forget to adjust your parallax and dial in elevation for the distance. Do you want to dial on some wind?

Don't forget to have fun!

 

[Tempest 455]

Also, fast pit service and mark scores correctly. They will usually pair you with someone that's done it before.