I'd like to know how well the PVS-4 works for hunting (rifle mounted) and observing (tripod mounted). I have PVS-14 and could use another NVD, but don't want to pay $3k+ if I can make do with a PVS-4.
Night Vision Opinions of PVS-4 Gen 2 for hunting and observing?
- Thread starter One-Eyed Jack
- Start date
Re: Opinions of PVS-4 Gen 2 for hunting and observing?
The PVS-4 works very well for hunting and reasonably well for surveillance. The big lens and a well thought out tube design went together to produce a classic that has lasted for decades.
It's greatest weakness is the relatively low S/N ratio which leads to a lot of noise at lower light levels, meaning that it's most effectively used with extra IR light. Since it has no mounts for an active system, you'll need to find a way to do this.
Otherwise, it's perfect for most people... If you don't mind the extra weight up top.
For surveillance, it's OK, but the limited FOV can be detrimental. On the other hand, it has a wider FOV than an 18mm tube for the same magnification ( it uses a 25mm tube ).
Between a PVS-4 and a PVS-14, you'll probably be right. Just add a little IR for the darker nights and I think you're good to go.
Regards
David.
The PVS-4 works very well for hunting and reasonably well for surveillance. The big lens and a well thought out tube design went together to produce a classic that has lasted for decades.
It's greatest weakness is the relatively low S/N ratio which leads to a lot of noise at lower light levels, meaning that it's most effectively used with extra IR light. Since it has no mounts for an active system, you'll need to find a way to do this.
Otherwise, it's perfect for most people... If you don't mind the extra weight up top.
For surveillance, it's OK, but the limited FOV can be detrimental. On the other hand, it has a wider FOV than an 18mm tube for the same magnification ( it uses a 25mm tube ).
Between a PVS-4 and a PVS-14, you'll probably be right. Just add a little IR for the darker nights and I think you're good to go.
Regards
David.
Re: Opinions of PVS-4 Gen 2 for hunting and observing?
Thanks David. The PVS-4's FOV is 14 degrees at 3.6X, that's about the same as a PVS-14 with a 3X magnifier. I appreciate your comments about the S/N and the need for illumination to keep the signal out of the muck. I want to dedicate the PVS-14 to helmet mounting and use with my rifle, and use the PVS-4 on a tripod for surveillance.
Thanks David. The PVS-4's FOV is 14 degrees at 3.6X, that's about the same as a PVS-14 with a 3X magnifier. I appreciate your comments about the S/N and the need for illumination to keep the signal out of the muck. I want to dedicate the PVS-14 to helmet mounting and use with my rifle, and use the PVS-4 on a tripod for surveillance.
Re: Opinions of PVS-4 Gen 2 for hunting and observing?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks David. The PVS-4's FOV is 14 degrees at 3.6X, that's about the same as a PVS-14 with a 3X magnifier. I appreciate your comments about the S/N and the need for illumination to keep the signal out of the muck. I want to dedicate the PVS-14 to helmet mounting and use with my rifle, and use the PVS-4 on a tripod for surveillance. </div></div>
If it's *just* surveillance you want, then a 3-stage cascade tube in a home-made housing will only cost a few hundred and will outperform the PVS-4 in terms of gain, resolution and S/N...
If you don't mind the edge distortion, they are hard to beat for a cheap surveillance scope.
I'd take a PVS-4 any day over a home-made cascade, but mainly because it can be mounted and is a very effective night vision sight. If it was just for surveillance, I'd probably stick with the cascade, which is far more capable.
David.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks David. The PVS-4's FOV is 14 degrees at 3.6X, that's about the same as a PVS-14 with a 3X magnifier. I appreciate your comments about the S/N and the need for illumination to keep the signal out of the muck. I want to dedicate the PVS-14 to helmet mounting and use with my rifle, and use the PVS-4 on a tripod for surveillance. </div></div>
If it's *just* surveillance you want, then a 3-stage cascade tube in a home-made housing will only cost a few hundred and will outperform the PVS-4 in terms of gain, resolution and S/N...
If you don't mind the edge distortion, they are hard to beat for a cheap surveillance scope.
I'd take a PVS-4 any day over a home-made cascade, but mainly because it can be mounted and is a very effective night vision sight. If it was just for surveillance, I'd probably stick with the cascade, which is far more capable.
David.
Re: Opinions of PVS-4 Gen 2 for hunting and observing?
It's surveillance outside in the desert, looking for coyotes and critters. It's a dustly environment and the surveillance scope would probably be low tripod mounted while I sit in relative comfort. Once I acquire them with the PVS-4, then my helmet-mounted PVS-14 and rifle with PEQ-2A would come into play.
What is a "three-stage, cascade tube"? Not the physics, but how does it relate to 2nd and 3rd gen tubes? The latter are very pricy, while the former are few hundred dollars.
It's surveillance outside in the desert, looking for coyotes and critters. It's a dustly environment and the surveillance scope would probably be low tripod mounted while I sit in relative comfort. Once I acquire them with the PVS-4, then my helmet-mounted PVS-14 and rifle with PEQ-2A would come into play.
What is a "three-stage, cascade tube"? Not the physics, but how does it relate to 2nd and 3rd gen tubes? The latter are very pricy, while the former are few hundred dollars.
Re: Opinions of PVS-4 Gen 2 for hunting and observing?
In terms of image quality? Cascades ( good ones anyway ) have minimum gain of around 100,000.... Compare that to around 60,000 of your typical Gen3.
Plus no MCP generated noise.
Resolution is 45 lp/mm on a 25mm tube.
Overall, they compare quite well to a Gen3... At least they would if your Gen3 weighed several kilograms and had awful distortion.
Get a good lens and they perform exceptionally well and on a tripod are hard to beat. If you get something like a Twiggy ( UK Surveillance Scope with a Cascade ) you will be able to see more than you will be able to shoot! At least with just a PVS-14.
Even a clapped-out cascade usually has around 50,000 gain, but get a good one and they are pretty amazing.
People really underestimate them.
BUT...
They are big and heavy and you have to make them yourself. There's not much point having one for anything other than surveillance and not all cascades are created equally. You really need something like a P8079HP to get the full performance to make them useful.
They can't beat a modern Gen3 surveillance scope either. Get something like an AN/PVS-20A and you'll outperform a cascade.
Surveillance scopes aren't very practical. They are big and heavy and need to be set up somewhere stable... But the military still use them, especially on boats and vehicles and the like.
hmm, thinking about that, you know, I know someone with a night-vision periscope you might be able to get hold of at a good price. You could build it into the roof of your hunting car, then sit back and wait, watching all the time with a high-quality NV setup. If you're interested, let me know and I'll pass your details on to them ( though they do visit this site, so will probably see my comments... so you could as much just respond and wait for them to see it ) Or make a tripod to go over a comfortable chair or sit at the edge of your hide. Theirs was a Second Gen if I recall correctly. Quite a good one too.
Regards
David
In terms of image quality? Cascades ( good ones anyway ) have minimum gain of around 100,000.... Compare that to around 60,000 of your typical Gen3.
Plus no MCP generated noise.
Resolution is 45 lp/mm on a 25mm tube.
Overall, they compare quite well to a Gen3... At least they would if your Gen3 weighed several kilograms and had awful distortion.
Get a good lens and they perform exceptionally well and on a tripod are hard to beat. If you get something like a Twiggy ( UK Surveillance Scope with a Cascade ) you will be able to see more than you will be able to shoot! At least with just a PVS-14.
Even a clapped-out cascade usually has around 50,000 gain, but get a good one and they are pretty amazing.
People really underestimate them.
BUT...
They are big and heavy and you have to make them yourself. There's not much point having one for anything other than surveillance and not all cascades are created equally. You really need something like a P8079HP to get the full performance to make them useful.
They can't beat a modern Gen3 surveillance scope either. Get something like an AN/PVS-20A and you'll outperform a cascade.
Surveillance scopes aren't very practical. They are big and heavy and need to be set up somewhere stable... But the military still use them, especially on boats and vehicles and the like.
hmm, thinking about that, you know, I know someone with a night-vision periscope you might be able to get hold of at a good price. You could build it into the roof of your hunting car, then sit back and wait, watching all the time with a high-quality NV setup. If you're interested, let me know and I'll pass your details on to them ( though they do visit this site, so will probably see my comments... so you could as much just respond and wait for them to see it ) Or make a tripod to go over a comfortable chair or sit at the edge of your hide. Theirs was a Second Gen if I recall correctly. Quite a good one too.
Regards
David
Re: Opinions of PVS-4 Gen 2 for hunting and observing?
Sounds like the NV version of a regenerative receiver! Surveillance is a mode of operation: loitering and observing to acquire and identify a target of some sort. I suppose the loitering part translates into one location and heavy equipment. But once the target has been identified, it's time for whatever action comes next. In hunting, it's often move out and kill. Moreover, you have to drag your equipment to where the game is, often in an ATV in my case, so that means compact and portable.
Still, I'd love to try my hand at a handmade NV device of some sort, I've built a telescope before and work in electronics (I build custom guitar amps).
Sounds like the NV version of a regenerative receiver! Surveillance is a mode of operation: loitering and observing to acquire and identify a target of some sort. I suppose the loitering part translates into one location and heavy equipment. But once the target has been identified, it's time for whatever action comes next. In hunting, it's often move out and kill. Moreover, you have to drag your equipment to where the game is, often in an ATV in my case, so that means compact and portable.
Still, I'd love to try my hand at a handmade NV device of some sort, I've built a telescope before and work in electronics (I build custom guitar amps).
Re: Opinions of PVS-4 Gen 2 for hunting and observing?
Have a look at this thread then...
http://aunv.blackice.com.au/cgi-bin/nightvision/forum?index=projects&story=cascade
And feel free to ask any questions.
Anyone else on the forum who would like to do likewise is welcome to come along for the fun.
I've taught a lot of people to make their own NV and don't mind doing so.
Mostly, it just convinces people they need to buy something decent next time - like an AN/PVS-14...
But that's the benefit of saving money the first time.
Regards
David
Have a look at this thread then...
http://aunv.blackice.com.au/cgi-bin/nightvision/forum?index=projects&story=cascade
And feel free to ask any questions.
Anyone else on the forum who would like to do likewise is welcome to come along for the fun.
Mostly, it just convinces people they need to buy something decent next time - like an AN/PVS-14...
Regards
David
Re: Opinions of PVS-4 Gen 2 for hunting and observing?
Anyone who would like to build the DIY NV system will need to find the P8079HP IIT device that it's based on. Where can people in the US find the UK-made intensifier tube assembly? Seems they are available in England and Australia.
Anyone who would like to build the DIY NV system will need to find the P8079HP IIT device that it's based on. Where can people in the US find the UK-made intensifier tube assembly? Seems they are available in England and Australia.
Re: Opinions of PVS-4 Gen 2 for hunting and observing?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone who would like to build the DIY NV system will need to find the P8079HP IIT device that it's based on. Where can people in the US find the UK-made intensifier tube assembly? Seems they are available in England and Australia. </div></div>
Most Americans order them from the UK as do most Australians. Usually from Anchor Supplies or StarlightNV.
Both are good sources. Anchor is usually cheaper, though charges a lot for shipping.
http://www.anchorsupplies.com/night_vision.htm
Regards
David
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone who would like to build the DIY NV system will need to find the P8079HP IIT device that it's based on. Where can people in the US find the UK-made intensifier tube assembly? Seems they are available in England and Australia. </div></div>
Most Americans order them from the UK as do most Australians. Usually from Anchor Supplies or StarlightNV.
Both are good sources. Anchor is usually cheaper, though charges a lot for shipping.
http://www.anchorsupplies.com/night_vision.htm
Regards
David
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