Opinions on Course of fire?

[TEAMSENDIT]

Well i put together a practice match for a few buddies of mine and i would like get opinions on course of fire. things that could be added or subtracted. All steel plates are 12x12 and pdog is life size, balloons will be 4-6" diameter.

is this to easy or hard?

Stage 1

Description- Shooter will engage hanging tennis balls at 200yds taking one shot at each one starting from the left. Shooter will then engage paper hostage target at 100yds firing 3 shots strong side followed by 3 shots weak side. Lastly shooter will engage 1000yard targets taking 2 shots at each of the 4 targets for total of 8 rounds. All hits will be scored 1 point, hitting hostage will deduct 2 points for each hit. Stage will have total round count of 16rds fired with a maximum time limit of 3min 30sec.

Stage 2

Position/Barricade

Shooter will start from designated position shooting at bank of 4 targets. Shooter will start prone fire 2 shots each from prone, sitting, kneeling & standing. Shooter will then move forward to barricade. Shooting 2 rounds from each position. Targets will all be engaged from left to right 2 per target. Total round count for stage is 16rds, all hits 1 point, total time 4minutes.

Stage 3

Shooter will start prone and will engage 500 yard hanging balloons every shooter will engage the uppermost left balloon. Your only allowed 1 hit, every shooter must fire minimum 2 shots and has up to 4 available. Hitting the wrong balloon will result it deducting 2 points off score. Shooter will then steel plate at 650yard prone 2 shots. Following that shooter will engage 500yard steel prairie dog shooting 5rounds prone, followed by 5 shots through barricade at prairie dog. Total possible of 16rds fired each hit will be scored 2 points at this stage.

Stage 4

Shooter will start from back of truck firing 4rds with tailgate up at 500yard plate. Shooter will drop tailgate and fire 4 shots at 500yard prairie dog. Shooter will then move to rooftop barricade firing 2 shots at 650 yard plate, then 2 shots 500yard plates, 2 shots at steel prairie dog. 14 rounds total fired with hits being 1 point each. Time limit 4minutes

If there is time remaining shooter has option of shooting up to 6rds standing at 650yard plate all hits counting for 1 point.

Total possible round count for match is max 68.

 

[Tribe]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

Looks fun man... any time limit on stage 3? Why do we loose 30 seconds on the 1000yd stage?!?

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks fun man... any time limit on stage 3? Why do we loose 30 seconds on the 1000yd stage?!?

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sorry stage 3 4min also. you lose 30 sec on 1000yard stage because you don't have to move from prone. you gonna show us how its done?

 

[Okie Gordon]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

Shoot thru everything a time or two to verify practical aspects and you will answer your own questions.
What works well with a 338 Lapua could very well be a lost cause with a 22-250 shooting high BC bullets or a .223 AR rifle.

Depending on the time of day and weather conditions some of it might be sending rounds down range without getting feedback or getting accurate scoring information.
For instance, 1000 yards at a 12 x 12 steel plate is good as long as the mirage isn't too bad and you have a real good backstop to determine hits & misses. High grass to absorb misses and strong winds would probably make that one real iffy. You also need at least two sets of eyes with real good spotting scopes on the target cause at 1000 yards you get very little feedback from the lighter calibers. After several shooters the paint on the target is not clean any more so it becomes a real problem spotting hits if they happen to be in the same location as other hits.

On the closer stuff you would probably be better served with paper shoot-n-see targets rather than steel so an accurate hit count can be verified after the smoke has cleared.

On stage 1 have several extra hanging tennis balls. Murphy's law says that at least a couple of strings will get shot.

You might try shooting thru stage 2 a couple of times.
It sounds like a lot of movement and changing positions for 4 minutes unless everything happens within a couple of square yards. 6" targets at 100 yards are a whole different deal than 6" targets at 300 yards.

Stage 3 balloons tend to be real tough to see at 500 yards if the mirage comes up unless they are real dark colored. "Hanging" balloons to me says they are hanging from a string. Hopefully you mean stapled to a plywood backboard that is painted to contrast with the balloon color.

Overall, based on what you describe expect to have about 80-90% misses from an average shooter. You might want to rethink the distances and size so the hit ratio for new shooters is around 25% and a real good shooter will get around 75% with the average shooter getting around 50%.
People are much happier to shoot in a match that they feel gives them a reasonable chance to get a hit on at least part of the targets.
I would do the practice scenerio you mentioned but only if I was only doing it for a small group of the best shooters in the country.

 

[Tribe]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

I'll show you all day.... just keep eyes off the target

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

we have sand backstops behind all targets so spotting misses is easy. we have fairly good shooters attending, all fairly well practiced. we ran a similar one few months ago and had around 50%hits on 12" targets at 1000yds.

last time we shot clay pigeons at 500ys and had reasonable success. stage 2 will be between 300-450yards.

max caliber will be 300wm and most shooters are using 6mm, 6.5mm or 7mm's in fact none of my buddies use a 308, alot of 243 and 7wsm's

 

[Tribe]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

No paper allowed!

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No paper allowed!

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sorry i dont' have a steel hostage target yet! i also want a coyote popper. if only i had the funds i guess.

 

[Tribe]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

Post on SHWW.... steel will follow.

 

[Okie Gordon]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

Sounds like you have a good challenging course of fire.

Since you have good shooters you might consider putting in a stage that mimics speed / manipulation drills for both strong and weak side.

We do this but you might come up with a better concept.

Place 4 mats on the berm about 20 ft. apart for a total spread of 60 ft.

The idea is to see how many hits you can get in a specific time frame on one target. We usually utilize 60 to 180 seconds and a 6" round plate at 400 yards.
One person behind a spotting scope to call out hits / misses and call out the bullet impact location to the shooter to give feedback as the drill progresses. Another person acts as the RO and verifies that the shooter removes the magasine and has bolt back when moving from mat to mat.

Shooter starts at the left side about 10 ft. from the first mat standing with rifle and a loaded magazine in hand with dope already cranked into the scope.
At the buzzer he plops down on the #1 mat and takes a rapid but (hopefully) accurate shot at a target, runs the bolt back, strips the magazine, gets up and goes to mat #2 and repeats the drill. Repeat the drill then move to mat #3, repeat and move to mat #4, repeat and move back to #3, etc., etc.
Back and forth #1, #2, #3, #4, #3, #2, #1, #2, #3 until time is up.

Spotter needs to keep track of hits and misses while RO keeps time and watches shooter for safety issues as well as watching for quality of position when the shot is taken.

Expect about 8 seconds between shots for a fast shooter and about 10 seconds for a more deliberate shooter like me. If you get in too big a hurry you will miss and if you waste too much time you will get too few hits. Less than 75% hit ratio is unacceptable and 100% hits is preferred cause you can't miss quick enough to make up the time.

During the AAR emphasize smooth operation in loading the magazine and bolt manipulation and bust the shooter on bad ir inconsistent body position. Notice the different method the shooter utilizes while moving the rifle from left to right than is utilized when changing positions from right to left. If one is definitely slower than the other redo the drill but only utilize the slower movement direction. Watch to make sure the shooter lines up the rifle pretty much straight towards the target when setting it on the ground and not pointing off to the left or right as this will significantly slow down the time to acquire the target when the shooter gets down behind the rifle.

About 90 seconds into the drill the shooter will be breathing hard. Watch for significantly more misses as the heart rate increases. If accuracy is good at the beginning but goes to crap when the shooter breathes hard redo the drill but make the shooter start 200 yards away from the shooting mats and run to mat #1 with the rifle sitting on the mat (for safety).

Two or three minutes per shooter to do the drill and another 2 minutes on the AAR lets you run a shooter every 4 or 5 minutes.
If you have more than about 6 shooters at a practice you should probably set up to run two shooting lines independently to keep things moving quickly.

Alternatives on the stage could be to run the entire thing weak side only or to run multiple yardage targets that are designated by the spotter as the shooter lays down on the mat in order to force the shooter to adjust the dope on his scope between mats but that should only happen after everybody is feeling comfortable with the basic drill. You can also increase the distance between mats and only have 2 or 3 mats if that works better. You can central location where the ammunition is stashed and force the shooter to run to get one round between mats. You can set it up as a team drill where both shooter and spotter must move and acquire targets with the spotter calling hits & misses.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

i like it sounds fun, i might add something similar. i am going to try and take alot of pics this time so i can see what you guys think of our positions and barracades.

 

[Tribe]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

That sounds like a kick-ass drill.

 

[Lucks]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If there is time remaining shooter has option of shooting up to 6rds standing at 650yard plate all hits counting for 1 point.
</div></div>
12" plate?
I'm sure they'll be heart broke if they don't get to shoot this rediculously easy bonus stage!

Sounds like a fun and challenging practice match, I'd love to shoot it!

 

[Tribe]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If there is time remaining shooter has option of shooting up to 6rds standing at 650yard plate all hits counting for....
</div></div>

I'm sure they'll be heart broke if they don't get to shoot this rediculously easy bonus stage!</div></div>

hey we might get a couple hits, maybe target is 2moa. its doable just really hard. sometimes its a mental challenge, focuses shooters to concentrate on what they are really good at. believe it or not it is really fun to give it a try and you feel great if you get even one hit (hey its a bonus not a gimme)

 

[Lucks]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

Diggler,
Sounds like a fun practice match.
I think the balloon movers will be fun. We had a practice match last year where we got 9" helium filled balloons and shot at them at 500 yards prone. It is amazing how hard even a 9" helium balloon is to hit on a windy day. Their movement is so random. It's a lot of fun.
Good luck with your match....

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

none of us are le/military so this is strictly because we enjoy it. real respect goes out to the guys that have live targets as a possiblity. whole new levels of pressure.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

Tribe, are you going?

 

[Tribe]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

I'd really like to, but highly unlikely for this one... I'm pretty tied-up, until November....

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

As a confirmed feeb, I can only offer conjecture.

Were I not that feeb, I'd like it.

Since I am that feeb, I strongly urge you to resist the sentiment about dumbing it down, or softening the physical impact as an 'accomodation'.

A course is a course, folks who have issues need to make their decision based on whether they think they can meet the criteria, or whether their own situation mitigates against their participation, but whatever, the playing field stays level.

For my part, I recognize that such courses are beyond my capabilities, and I have the good sense and good grace not to impose my presence where it tends to be a square peg in a round hole. All this touchy/feelie 'diversity and tolerance' crud is a PC invitation to cheapen our world, eliminate challenge, and force the mainstream to cater to the least denominator. I resent it when folks try to take me out of the mainstream and put me on the little bus. You should reject any part of that equation.

If you can't find a good reason to do so, then do it for me.

Greg

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Opinions on Course of fire?

this course would be doable even for someone later in years, its way more mental than physical. we only cover about 2.5miles on foot the whole match.