Optics and mounts discussion

alamo5000

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Jun 18, 2020
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I am definitely into long range shooting but as of right now I don't have a rifle capable of getting to 1,000 yards plus. It's been on my radar for a long time now and is on my short list of priorities. That said my personal best is 1,400 yards on target with a friend's rifle that I helped him build and work up loads for. I am very confident I could have gone farther but that particular day we ran out of real estate.

I am definitely interested in the 6 ARC. I have also been planning something in 6.5 CM for a while as well but for this discussion let's center it on the 6 ARC as the primary target. The last couple of years though have been crazy so my economics require me to save up longer to get nice things and let's face it, optics are not cheap (at least not the ones I want).

The optic I have in mind is the vortex 4.5-27, probably with the mil reticle. The literature and web page say it has 28.5 mils of elevation. Assuming the zero of the rifle falls in the mechanical middle of that optic--with a zero cant mount that would give me 14.25 mils of dial up adjustment. Correct? Now if I use a 6 mil cantilever mount (I like the one from Spuhr) that would give me 20.25 mils of dial up capability. On top of that using hold overs I could add another 10 mils of elevation for a total of 30.25 mils of elevation correction. I am pretty sure this is correct for that given scope but I am putting it out there for confirmation.

With that much elevation capability that seems to be plenty of elevation for the distances I would commonly shoot in either the 6 ARC or a 6.5 CM. Again I am fishing a bit for confirmation... I am kind of thinking out loud here so if you have anything to add please feel free. I am here to gain knowledge and insight, even for other optics options. I am sure there are pros and cons to various optics choices so I am interested in hearing other thoughts.

On the mount I like the Spuhr 6mil cantilever mount but I am interested in other options as well. Again pros and cons.

Along with that though I am thinking that I might get the QD version of that mount when the time arises. The reasoning for a QD mount is that with that optic I could use it on various firearms. I am only shooting for fun but eventually I could end up with both a 6 ARC and a 6.5 CM (or some other cartridge) as well as it would open up the door for me to use it on my .22LR to do .22LR long range shooting etc. I can shoot out easily to 200+ yards in my yard. Ideally I would have one optic for each rifle but as a temporary fix moving the optic around would allow me to do more while spending less or at least until I could build up the funds to get dedicated optics.

Any commentary is welcome, but I am particularly interested in the QD aspect of a rifle optic and mount. Any pros or cons with that idea?

Sorry for the long-ish post but this is going to be my first 'nicer' optic (whatever that turns out to be). I don't mind spending a bit more if it will help but I kind of outlined my 'starter plan' above (for critique) and to help discover any other options or weaknesses in my plan.
 

Rob01

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14 mils would probably be more than enough for that set up. Get a 6 mil or even a 9 mil and you will be fine. I have run one on a 40 MOA base which is about 11.6 mils. Is the rifle going to be an AR or bolt gun? Assuming AR? Just wondering for mounting options. If you are not wanting to spend a lot of money then there are other options less than Spuhr.

And forget QD on a precision rifle. No need for it to change a scope to another rifle. Are you in a NASCAR race and need to change it in 2.3 seconds? Nope. Do it right and use a torque wrench and torque it down.
 

2muchcowbell

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Jun 18, 2020
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Alamo,

That sounds like a good plan. 10 mils is likely enough to get you out to 1k with either of those calibers. The Razor is a boat anchor (lol), but it's a great scope from all accounts I've heard, and a great first scope.

If you want to go out past 1,000 yards, though, the 6 ARC (where I'm at - density altitude 5100 ft, using the ELD-M 108-gr bullet and 2650 fps muzzle velocity) goes transonic around 1020 yards, which will make hitting targets past that mark difficult.

I have a couple of my scopes in a Spuhr QD set, and I can vouch for their consistency. I've taken the scope off the rail and moved it farther down the gun for another shooter and he made hits on steel at 500 yards no problem. That said, another mount to look at is ADM - their QD mounts are also super sturdy, and they're about half the price of the Spuhr. If you go QD and migrate scopes a lot, I'd definitely recommend logging the zero shifts on each, and setting up the Razor where none of the zeros go below the zero stop.

Good luck!
 

alamo5000

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Jun 18, 2020
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Alamo,

That sounds like a good plan. 10 mils is likely enough to get you out to 1k with either of those calibers. The Razor is a boat anchor (lol), but it's a great scope from all accounts I've heard, and a great first scope.

If you want to go out past 1,000 yards, though, the 6 ARC (where I'm at - density altitude 5100 ft, using the ELD-M 108-gr bullet and 2650 fps muzzle velocity) goes transonic around 1020 yards, which will make hitting targets past that mark difficult.

I have a couple of my scopes in a Spuhr QD set, and I can vouch for their consistency. I've taken the scope off the rail and moved it farther down the gun for another shooter and he made hits on steel at 500 yards no problem. That said, another mount to look at is ADM - their QD mounts are also super sturdy, and they're about half the price of the Spuhr. If you go QD and migrate scopes a lot, I'd definitely recommend logging the zero shifts on each, and setting up the Razor where none of the zeros go below the zero stop.

Good luck!
I definitely want to go out past 1,000. Without question. We have a standing range on a friend's ranch that sits at 1,400 with permanent plates set up every 100. On rare occasions we can turn one of the plates sideways and shoot from a different angle and get at least a mile if not more. That is not that common though unless we confirm there are no other people on the ranch on whatever day we would be shooting.

Regarding the 6 ARC... I am rarely if almost NEVER and early adopter of anything. I let other people work the bugs out. That said the ARC has my attention and I am watching to see actual field results before I buy in. The express purpose is to be able to shoot farther for relatively cheaper. If I go with that it will definitely be in an AR platform. I like that because I can rebarrel the gun or work on stuff when needed with little or a lot less hassle. I am not opposed to bolt guns but the ARC would be in an AR if I do it (at all).

If ultimately the ARC cannot reach the desired distances that I want I might skip it all together and go with something else that can go as far as I want it to.

"If you go QD and migrate scopes a lot, I'd definitely recommend logging the zero shifts on each, and setting up the Razor where none of the zeros go below the zero stop."
This is EXACTLY what I had in mind. I am a nerd like that so I would be logging all kinds of data regardless of what I am shooting. So if I set it up for the ARC (assuming I end up going that direction) I would also figure out where the zero would be for a .22LR and leave enough space to where I could dial in the zero when I wanted to go do plinking.

Your final sentence there summed up my thoughts 10x more eloquently than I did. Absolutely.
 

alamo5000

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Jun 18, 2020
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14 mils would probably be more than enough for that set up. Get a 6 mil or even a 9 mil and you will be fine. I have run one on a 40 MOA base which is about 11.6 mils. Is the rifle going to be an AR or bolt gun? Assuming AR? Just wondering for mounting options. If you are not wanting to spend a lot of money then there are other options less than Spuhr.

And forget QD on a precision rifle. No need for it to change a scope to another rifle. Are you in a NASCAR race and need to change it in 2.3 seconds? Nope. Do it right and use a torque wrench and torque it down.
See my post just above. If I go with the ARC it will be in an AR platform.

I know on a rimfire that optic would be serious overkill, but on the other hand it would be great to practice hold overs and making wind calls using the same optic. That's kind of the thought. Not just to have nice stuff, but to practice with that nice stuff.

Eventually I will have the $$$ to buy a nicer dedicated optic for my .22 LR but in the interim...this would allow me a lot more flexibility. Of course I would love to just have great glass on everything so my initial inclination is actually not to use QD but given the objective I figure the QD would play to it's purposes for the time being.
 

Rob01

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See my post just above. If I go with the ARC it will be in an AR platform.

I know on a rimfire that optic would be serious overkill, but on the other hand it would be great to practice hold overs and making wind calls using the same optic. That's kind of the thought. Not just to have nice stuff, but to practice with that nice stuff.

Eventually I will have the $$$ to buy a nicer dedicated optic for my .22 LR but in the interim...this would allow me a lot more flexibility. Of course I would love to just have great glass on everything so my initial inclination is actually not to use QD but given the objective I figure the QD would play to it's purposes for the time being.
It's not overkill for a rimfire. I know many with them. It's actually a very good choice if the funds allow. What you have to watch though moving an AR mount to a bolt or even semi rimfire is it will mount the scope very high. That is why AR mounts aren't used on most bolt guns except for flat tops like a RPR style. Just something to think about.

Again I would advise against QD but it's your money. Thinking you need QD to move scopes is not correct. I move scope all the time.
 

alamo5000

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Jun 18, 2020
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It's not overkill for a rimfire. I know many with them. It's actually a very good choice if the funds allow. What you have to watch though moving an AR mount to a bolt or even semi rimfire is it will mount the scope very high. That is why AR mounts aren't used on most bolt guns except for flat tops like a RPR style. Just something to think about.

Again I would advise against QD but it's your money. Thinking you need QD to move scopes is not correct. I move scope all the time.
I definitely respect your perspective for sure otherwise I wouldn't be asking. None of the specifics for me are set in stone yet. While I think having a QD mount would make life easier, at least on paper, but eventually the scope I plan to buy will hopefully find a more permanent home as the other rifles get their own optic upgrades.

I am still a while away from having the cash to drop on a optic so I have some time to sleep on the pros and cons. I have never used a QD scope mount but I have an Aimpoint red dot that has a QD mount and it's extremely solid but honestly I don't have the experience with the mount nor the scope I am eyeing at present.

Long story short the entire project(s) all pretty much hinge on my ability to get an optic. Other stuff, like building up an AR10 platform or whatever---I can piece that together and feel like I am making progress, but the price point on decent optics requires me saving up more.
 

alamo5000

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Jun 18, 2020
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Just looking around a bit on Vortex's website something like the 5-25 strike eagle (or even the 6-24 Diamondback) would be a very attainable scope for rimfire action. That problem about not having enough scope and having the wrong type of scope for what I want to do with it is much more easily fixed when talking about rimfire.

With that optic alone (the Strike Eagle) I could get out more than 200 yards easily without even dialing, just using hold overs. Most importantly it has the right type of reticle for practicing hold overs and being able to more accurately hold for wind. It could also help me practice using mils which I am not used to yet.

On top of that I can buy a matching 20 MOA base from Kidd for under $35 and that would give me over 30 total mils using dial up and holdovers (and that would be using plain zero MOA rings)... Like I said... it's a much easier fix for the .22 so I don't want to jump the gun since that is so easily remedied.

Basically for a few hundred bucks I could have the .22 exactly how I want it. I could do that tomorrow if I wanted to but that would also put me that much farther off from my other goals. It would also pretty much eliminate a TON of swapping if I did something like that. In my mind that scenario knocks down the QD attractiveness by a lot...so I need to keep that in mind.
 
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Rob01

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Yup the Strike Eagle 5-25 is a very good rimfire scope. After I got mine I put it on my Vudoo and it’s been on there getting played with and it works great. I have a 40 moa base on my Vudoo and have about 26 mils I can dial if I remember correctly.
 

2muchcowbell

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Basically for a few hundred bucks I could have the .22 exactly how I want it. I could do that tomorrow if I wanted to but that would also put me that much farther off from my other goals.
One thing to consider is that you can practice "long range" shooting with the .22 for cheap. Start learning to read the wind, get into position, natural point of aim, etc., without dropping $1+ for every round out of the gun.

That can go a long way towards improving your precision shooting by itself. It may set you back from the Razor purchase, but it can make the Razor that much more of an upgrade when it is purchased.