I’m running a 26” barrel for NRL22. I wanted my Rimfire to match my centerfire PRS/NRL Rifle. My centerfire is 27” and I’m used to that Length and weight so the rimfire does not make it any harder. I’m also running a Shilen #7 which is similar to a Heavy varmint contour. I also use the same chassis for both and the only difference is bolt travel and recoil. You just need to get used to it and train with it like anything else.Agree with the balance, but doesn't mean you need to run a 26" rimfire barrel to get that balance. I'd be curious how many people we'll see in NRL22/NRL22X running a 26" barrel. Having a 26" barrel is a pain to get in and out of barricades / ladders / portholes.
I ran a 22" barrel with 4" of suppressor added to the end, Yes it was a huge pain.Agree with the balance, but doesn't mean you need to run a 26" rimfire barrel to get that balance. I'd be curious how many people we'll see in NRL22/NRL22X running a 26" barrel. Having a 26" barrel is a pain to get in and out of barricades / ladders / portholes.
This is what I have found as well. Lower SD's, broader range of ammo shoots good or great. Only downside to 26-28" barrels is the handling, if you don't like longer barrels. I like them so no issue.I find my shorter barrels tend to have a finer node and can be more picky in regards to what Rimfire ammo they like. My 26” RimX and my 28” Remington 40x seem to shoot most decent ammo ($5-$8 sK stuff) good and really shine with the ($10-$17 high end ammo). Once you find what they want you to feed them they all shoot tiny bugholes. Aside from the long vs short barrel, just purchase whatever fits your needs. I like mine to match my centerfire rifles in weight and length for training purposes. If I just wanna go out and mess around offhand or to teach someone I bring out the shorter barreled rifle.
Here’s some preliminary groups out of my 26” RimX with mid grade ammo. Still waiting on some midas and RWS ammo. Groups are 5 shots per group at 55 yards.
View attachment 7338908
6DOF analysis. I am quite not in the knowledge about this myself. But it seems even very small variations in the projectile skin/ weight distribution (dings, nicks) can make quite much matter when the bullet exits the barrel and starts to stabilize.Transonic shift affects accuracy with the 22lr?
The guys who point to a study done on the Sierra Match King boat tail hollow point?
The same ballistics lab (Aberdeen) that did the study on the smkbthp, a long slender tail heavy projectile
came to a different conclusion regarding the stubby round nosed 22lr.
What? It's Friday. Slow afternoon at the office.
I found this out a few weeks back and have been trying to find out if I was insane or not, or just had a bad setup / my data was not collected properly / whatever. This confirms what I found, I sort of know why now.I’ve tested dozens of rifles. Shorter barrel almost always has higher ES.
Lock time is usually referred to how long it takes for the firing control system to finish its motion. Dwell time being how long the bullet remains in the barrel. Similar discussions though, to be sure.is not longer dwell time exactly the same as longer lock time?
J, with you. 0.92 Mach. SeymourI agree 100% about longer barrels (24” or more) for rimfire accuracy. I am of the same opinion that the shorter barrels keep the bullets too close to the transonic speed (which as I understand it changes with the atmospheric conditions). I also feel the longer time in the bore helps dissipate the harmonics in the barrel that is generated from the firing of the round (less muzzle whip when the bullet exits the muzzle). True there is more time for shooter induced error, but that can be corrected where a calm stable muzzle has to be tuned with either a tuner or as in my opinion longer time in the bore.
It's worth remembering that the average MV published for SK pistol ammo is determined with a short pistol-length barrel. In a longer barrel such pistol ammo would have a higher average MV.After watching the video I have two questions:
1. If the proposition that 980 FPS is the ideal projectile speed, wouldn't that make ammunition like Lapua and SK pistol ammunition (e.g., Lapua Pistol King) the preferred ammo choice? Or is it that the tighter tolerances baked into RWS50, TENEX, or MIDAS+ trumps the slower speed "advantage" of the less expensive pistol ammo?
2. Does barrel contour (stiffness) have a beneficial effect on accuracy or is it just length (perhaps moderating projectile speed via friction) that seems to matter?
For starters I tend to agree with Orkan. Longer barrel less ES. I hav noticed that longer barrels, for me, I am more consistent with as I back up. Now wether its weight or less ES I can't say. What I can say is there is always an exception. For example. The 64mpr shoots super well and has a 26.5 barrel. The kidd shoots prettt good and it has a 16.5. Back up to 75 or 100, the kids falls apart and the anschutz does not. The recoil is so much easier to manage on a longer barreled gun for me. My bullet goes where my cross hair stops. If my tracking and bag set up are correct, technique are correct it will show. Like wise if it's not it will also show.The below video is a SCATT trace that precisely shows the aiming point before during and after a shot. Note the different colors represent: before the shot= Green trace, 1 second prior to = Yellow and after the shot =Red.). While this is a world class shooter shooting an air rifle off hand, the jump you see after the shot is typical and even more pronounced with a .22 in the prone position. Note how much the muzzle moves after the shot (red) and this is with a recoil less air rifle. With really good shooters the direction and distance of the point of aim is repeatable. With lesser shooters like me, not so much. The velocity of 10 meter air rifles is about 550 fps and while the barrel looks to be long, it's actually counter bored (in my Fienwerkbau air rife about 10") to reduce the time the pellet can be affected by the barrel from this after shot movement. My small Bore 3P rifle has a nearly 28" barrel and a 9" bloop tube. The challenge with all of these rifles in not holding the X ring, it's managing the recoil after-shot movement to be consistent and to fall back into place confirming the natural point of aim is good. We also haven't talked about moment of inertia which is a big advantage to longer heavy weight barrels. Things really get ugly if the shooter flinches!
Testing directly refutes lots of your reply.Long barrel vs short barrel.
If a scoped rifle, shouldn't be any difference in accuracy.
I can't see barrel length affecting mv spread.
Coefficient of friction applies the same in both cases.
Longer barrel should produce lower mv's.
MV spread is cartridge caused, not barrel length.
The longer the time of flight, the more vertical spread produced.
ES vs SD...SD let's you know what 2 out of three shots will do, on average.
That third shot is going to be outside the average.
ES is what loses competitions.
In a match, tight ES is needed to win.
That one stray can turn a 250-10X into a 240-9X, you lose.
Then on what are you basing your disagreement? I've proven my statements with dozens (many dozens) of other rifles, using same lot numbers of ammo. This is including several rifles I've cut down to 16" which started out with 28" barrels. Long barrels tend to have reduced ES. It's a fact, and one that's been confirmed for me over 20+ years of pursuing precision rimfire.Can't say y'er wrong orkan, but I can still disagree with you.
I dislike being ignorant.
I'd need to put some work into cataloging rifles comparatively in order to produce that data. I've only ever been really concerned with each rifle on its own, which is why I don't have a big chart showing the dozens of rifles I've tested and their respective velocity data. On rifles I've cut from 28" to 16" (only about 3-4) I've seen between 8% and nearly 40% increase in ES with the respective lot number I was shooting in those rifles at the time. A lot of this was early on, and I hadn't drawn the correlation between barrel length and ES yet. It was during work with those rifles that I began to notice it. I just kind of arbitrarily assigned a "25% worse" ES at 16" than 28" value in my head to simplify things for me.With that laid out, how would you describe this MV improvement by numbers @orkan ?
How much SD/ES is bound to improve in numbers from say, 16" to 26" barrel? Talking about data of approximately 30 to 50 shots or more.
And also, what do both of you keep the average SD/ES of 22LR ammo? And the best SD/ES that you have measured?
And maybe the SD/ES of your current lot?
Longer is better in 22lr for SOME applications. Definitely not others. A 26" barrel with a suppressor gets a bit long for most peoples taste.Well why would I ruin a barrel by cutting it? I am sane, after all.
The fact you have cut already few barrels and witnessed it is enough for me to count in your experience based data.
But for practical purposes this only offers 1 truth - longer is better, which I already agree with.
What I would like to know is at what point is it not helping anymore and how much is enough.
In other words, should I go 24" or 28"? 22 or 25?
I think you have some opinion on proper length? I do think you have 35" barrels, so you must think some point is a good place to stop.