• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Gunsmithing Pacific Tool & Gauge SUCKS!!!

  • Thread starter Deleted member 113831
  • Start date
0_o, well doodoo! I ordered a Howa bottom metal, on sale for $119, direct from them last night, Midway was out of stock and +$30. Overseas options were even more expensive and the shipping cost and time made them even more so. And the European one was not a "drop in" part, not that the PT&G is either, from what I read. I'll give them a call tomorrow and ask if it's "in stock" if not what they estimate for lead time, but I may have to forego the AICS mag route and settle for the cheap polymer...
Bummer as hunting season is upon me. At least I have a backup rifle.
 
I just bought a bottom metal from them to convert my 7mm rem magnum to detachable mags. PTG was real sweet until they I took delivery then they never reply to any questions. For mine they said minor fitting to do the job. To me Minor fitting is cutting the stock; I hade major cutting to the receiver without one single word of advice. It was super hard because I did not want to take off my scope. I have not much good to say about them, it so reminded me of twenty some years ago when I bought the muzellite bullpup except I cut my receiver of my ever so loved 7mm rem mag. Anyway I had success and am happy but wow PTG is not cool kind of like old school junk yard or snatch n grab tow truck guys bottom feeders!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Constructor
Normally, I'd be a bit more diplomatic. They've been told this at least twice now.
 

Attachments

  • 20201022_091119.jpg
    20201022_091119.jpg
    508.4 KB · Views: 436
  • 20201022_091311.jpg
    20201022_091311.jpg
    354.2 KB · Views: 421
I placed my 1st/only and last order with Pacific Tool and Gage a few weeks ago. I ordered a 1 1/2x12 to 1 1/4x12 collar for my 50 BMG press. Being a tool and die maker, I should have turned my own, but for $35 shipped... figured I'd help support American jobs and same myself some time. The Collar came in .010 over ANSI spec and full of chatter marks. I tried emailing and Calling, and spoke with the CS rep. Never did get an email for a shipping label. Threads were so oversize, I spun the collar in my 6 jaw chuck trying to chase them.
 
After ordering my bottom metal, and then finding this thread and reading all the hate. I was pretty bummed out. I hate bad customer service as much as the next guy. However I must report on my experience, so I ordered it on sale on 10/13, then read this thread, so I got in touch with them to inquire if my BM was an "in stock" item, to which they informed me not, exspect an 8-12 week lead time. I was pleased to get an email update that my order had shipped 11/12. So I guess most of the gripes here are for extended wait times for out of spec tools? I haven't really heard bad reviews of the quality of their BMs. Would I be pushing my luck ordering mags from them?
 
I have purchased several things from PT&G.
I like their bottom metal, it is well priced and well made. I also purchased some tooling from them because, for some things, they are the only source.
They do not ship quickly, though I've seen worse (hello, optics planet) and if something isn't in stock, be prepared to wait.
I understand that they make things in batches, as they have to set up the machines etc...
Last thing that I ordered said 8-12 weeks, it was closer to 20, but I got it.
I had great luck dealing with Jason Gordon, he tracked down my order and gave me a pretty solid ship by date.
[email protected]
Apparently, they have had issues with the company that was doing the heat treating and had to find a new source.

They are not my favorite to deal with, but I still deal with them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BAMAboy18
I work for one of the larger gun manufacturing companies in the US and I will say I have used PTG for the last 5 yrs . I have bought hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of reamers ranging from 17 cal up to 50 cal as well as gauges to go along with said caliber 's and have had no more issues with Dave's company than I have with other cutting tool companies such as Sandvic, Mitsubishi, PH horn ,Kennametal along with many others. All of our reamers always go through 100 % incoming inspection on a CMM and have been spot on . Now with that being said we have had issues with the chambers not coming out correct but it has always been related to either speeds and feeds or the amount of material we were leaving for our finish reamer to remove . We chambered on a Dmg Mori machine and was running oil as a cutting fluid when i went to work for our company . Their complaint was the tool life . After much investigation I found that when the machines were set up the coolant filters were 1 micron filters set up for water based coolant and after burning up several coolant pumps due to them having to push the viscosity of the oil through the filters our maintenance crew decided to go with a more free flowing filter of 10 microns . This resulted in no more burnt up pumps BUT with the through the spindle coolant we were also blasting our cutting edges with the fines that were passing through the filters . I had the filters changed back and had the coolant changed to a synthetic cutting fluid and we went from getting 200 hits on a PTG 5.56 reamer to 1000 and sometimes more than that . I'm just saying all this to say that its not always the cutter . Man ,Method and Machine always come into question when I'm asked to investigate an issue . Dave has always been more that happy to give advise and has even flown out to our plant to lend a hand . As far as being double charged , we were double charged by PH -Horn on a order to the tune of $26k and they would not take the tools back and it took close to a yr to sort out . Im not taking any sides here . I relate it to when i was having my house built , couldnt make the wife understand our house wasnt the only house the contractor was building and that he wasnt going to be working on our house every day ! The contractor was my wifes Father ! lol
 
A little bit of a difference in how he treats a customer that buys in the volume that you do, and how he has shit on the little guys who just buy a small amount. It used to not be that way. Just saying...
 
I understand your point of view . Our company used to sale to small gun shops but now WM and Dicks and such have taken precedence. Its sad but the bean counters usually control such decision making . This is the world of bottom line thinkers that we live in , not rite in my opinion but reality non the less . I will relay this info to Dave personally . If there was one thing that you would have me tell him to change about his company what would it be . I might be able to carry a little bit more weight with the amount I spend $$$$ with him .
 
So I guess most of the gripes here are for extended wait times for out of spec tools?
I know I'm necro'ing a month old post..........

No, my gripes are being lied to about things being in stock as well as complete and total incompetence on the part of the customer service people. I have never had to hold so many dicks in my life in order to get a product from someone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gnochi
I understand your point of view . Our company used to sale to small gun shops but now WM and Dicks and such have taken precedence. Its sad but the bean counters usually control such decision making . This is the world of bottom line thinkers that we live in , not rite in my opinion but reality non the less . I will relay this info to Dave personally . If there was one thing that you would have me tell him to change about his company what would it be . I might be able to carry a little bit more weight with the amount I spend $$$$ with him .

I'd say "Up your CS to the little guys". This restocking fee being charged when they don't have shit in stock (despite the website stating "In Stock"), and then the order is cancelled by the consumer, is utter bullshit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rthur and gnochi
Done ! I promise I will relay the message , we talk at least once a week . I cant promise that I can make anything happen but I will make sure your voices are at least heard . I just joined today after doing a PTG search and stumbled upon this , I couldn't believe what I was reading .
 
Done ! I promise I will relay the message , we talk at least once a week . I cant promise that I can make anything happen but I will make sure your voices are at least heard . I just joined today after doing a PTG search and stumbled upon this , I couldn't believe what I was reading .
I won't even get into the "drop-in" part I ordered, that wasn't. Then the restocking fee warning...for a part that wasn't as advertised. Smdh...I ended up machining it to fit, but several members here didn't have access to a mill, so they got hosed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gnochi
Done ! I promise I will relay the message , we talk at least once a week . I cant promise that I can make anything happen but I will make sure your voices are at least heard . I just joined today after doing a PTG search and stumbled upon this , I couldn't believe what I was reading .
I applaud your initiative and wanting to do the right thing. However, don't do it for the people here that have had massive problems with PTG, do it for Dave and PTG. Many of us are done with them and don't give a shit.

If you're going to do it, do it for PTG in the hopes that they clean up their act. It is in reality, a shame. PTG could have been so good, but their indifference to their customers is unforgivable.
 
Last edited:
Just forward him the link to this thread.
Hell, I sent him a letter/email back when I had problems with them. It was actually a fairly positive, encouraging letter. No response whatsoever. Crickets. Not even so much as a "fuck you very much"..........That's REAL indifference in my book.
 
Last edited:
I don't personally put much stock in the indeed review s simply because I've never given a good review to any of my past jobs and I've had some wonderful ones but I have bashed a few bad ones ! LOL As for the BBB complaints , I find them very interesting , seems like some confusion in the office to say the least , I was happy to see they were settled. I will say where I work that 99% of the time the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and the fact that we produce anything is mindboggling ! I know that no madder what company I work with I always use only one point of contact , that has worked well for me over the last 30 yrs !
 
As for your letter/email , I would have been grateful for the insight but I'm not everybody . Some don't take to constructive criticism as well as others do . Me persoanall would have either said thank you or fuck you ! LMAO
 
As for your letter/email , I would have been grateful for the insight but I'm not everybody . Some don't take to constructive criticism as well as others do . Me persoanall would have either said thank you or fuck you ! LMAO
He could have told me to fuck off and I would have felt better about it. At least I would have known that he had read it.
 
Last edited:
I wish I would have seen this thread before I ordered my gauges.
 
I work for one of the larger gun manufacturing companies in the US and I will say I have used PTG for the last 5 yrs . I have bought hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of reamers ranging from 17 cal up to 50 cal as well as gauges to go along with said caliber 's and have had no more issues with Dave's company than I have with other cutting tool companies such as Sandvic, Mitsubishi, PH horn ,Kennametal along with many others. All of our reamers always go through 100 % incoming inspection on a CMM and have been spot on . Now with that being said we have had issues with the chambers not coming out correct but it has always been related to either speeds and feeds or the amount of material we were leaving for our finish reamer to remove . We chambered on a Dmg Mori machine and was running oil as a cutting fluid when i went to work for our company . Their complaint was the tool life . After much investigation I found that when the machines were set up the coolant filters were 1 micron filters set up for water based coolant and after burning up several coolant pumps due to them having to push the viscosity of the oil through the filters our maintenance crew decided to go with a more free flowing filter of 10 microns . This resulted in no more burnt up pumps BUT with the through the spindle coolant we were also blasting our cutting edges with the fines that were passing through the filters . I had the filters changed back and had the coolant changed to a synthetic cutting fluid and we went from getting 200 hits on a PTG 5.56 reamer to 1000 and sometimes more than that . I'm just saying all this to say that its not always the cutter . Man ,Method and Machine always come into question when I'm asked to investigate an issue . Dave has always been more that happy to give advise and has even flown out to our plant to lend a hand . As far as being double charged , we were double charged by PH -Horn on a order to the tune of $26k and they would not take the tools back and it took close to a yr to sort out . Im not taking any sides here . I relate it to when i was having my house built , couldnt make the wife understand our house wasnt the only house the contractor was building and that he wasnt going to be working on our house every day ! The contractor was my wifes Father ! lol
You order carbide reamers from who other than PTG?
 
I ordered from PTG, JGS and tried some from GWS, Mitsubishi, and a few hometown cutter grinder shops , as well as worked with Kennametal to see if they could develop a reamer . Why ? Mitsubishi had some dam good looking reamers but performance wasn't there .
 
JGS tried really hard even flew 2 guys out once but just didn't impress with there knowledge or their delivery of product .
 
as a manufacturing engineer (30 yrs as a machinist ) I needed a tool to perform within my cycle time and produce acceptable results with good tool life and I know a lot of you guys will never do business with PTG again and that's up to yall but his production reamers have always out performed everybody's, but if you guys know of somebody that makes reamers better I'm all ears ! At the end of the day I get paid for cost reduction and better performance equals cost reduction ! lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rubicon Precision
issues I have experienced are as follows
1) JGS reamers held tolerances but finish wasn't acceptable to our qc dept
2) Mitsu made beautiful reamers bud wouldn't hold up
3) GWS wasnt correct
4) home town grinders had issues with consistency
5) Kennametal struggled with making a all in one reamer wanted to make a front and back (their terminology) finish reamer so thats a rougher and two finishers ! No conducive to production. Thats an extra tool to load ,offset and then theres the tool change operation of the machine .
 
please enlighten me with your wisdom on the iconic value of this post 22-dasher?
It’s the same ole year after year with Dave. Pointless to even bring it up with him as he literally does NOT care. He tried defending himself years ago to no avail over on accurate. It’s only continued to get worse from there.
 
JGS tried really hard even flew 2 guys out once but just didn't impress with there knowledge or their delivery of product .
You know Dave learned from JGS right?
JGS reamers cut with all flutes, most of PTGs would cut with one flute because they were uneven.
I ordered custom reamers and PTG would send off the shelf SAAMI reamers.
No 2 reamers from PTG were the same, like .035" difference in freebore.
Order 3 flute roughers and 6 flute finish.
I'm more interested in accuracy from batch to batch not cranking out 1000s of barrels, we change reamers at 400 every time.
 
Last edited:
I have no idea about any of this , I only speak of our experience. Yes I know he came from JGS . I'm not defending anyone but I will say we have never seen reamers with more than .001 difference . I wonder how many have access to a cmm or are checking these reamers with calipers ? I'm not being an ass I'm just curious. I have an open mind and I know im not the smartest man in the room but this just blows my mind knowing i have seen the cmm reports daily . Not saying anyones wrong just mind blowing
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rubicon Precision
My overall experience was very positive for just a single DBM. Was told 8-12 weeks lead time, received it closer to the 8 weeks. Happy camper here.
 
I work for one of the larger gun manufacturing companies in the US and I will say I have used PTG for the last 5 yrs . I have bought hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of reamers ranging from 17 cal up to 50 cal as well as gauges to go along with said caliber 's and have had no more issues with Dave's company than I have with other cutting tool companies such as Sandvic, Mitsubishi, PH horn ,Kennametal along with many others. All of our reamers always go through 100 % incoming inspection on a CMM and have been spot on . Now with that being said we have had issues with the chambers not coming out correct but it has always been related to either speeds and feeds or the amount of material we were leaving for our finish reamer to remove . We chambered on a Dmg Mori machine and was running oil as a cutting fluid when i went to work for our company . Their complaint was the tool life . After much investigation I found that when the machines were set up the coolant filters were 1 micron filters set up for water based coolant and after burning up several coolant pumps due to them having to push the viscosity of the oil through the filters our maintenance crew decided to go with a more free flowing filter of 10 microns . This resulted in no more burnt up pumps BUT with the through the spindle coolant we were also blasting our cutting edges with the fines that were passing through the filters . I had the filters changed back and had the coolant changed to a synthetic cutting fluid and we went from getting 200 hits on a PTG 5.56 reamer to 1000 and sometimes more than that . I'm just saying all this to say that its not always the cutter . Man ,Method and Machine always come into question when I'm asked to investigate an issue . Dave has always been more that happy to give advise and has even flown out to our plant to lend a hand . As far as being double charged , we were double charged by PH -Horn on a order to the tune of $26k and they would not take the tools back and it took close to a yr to sort out . Im not taking any sides here . I relate it to when i was having my house built , couldnt make the wife understand our house wasnt the only house the contractor was building and that he wasnt going to be working on our house every day ! The contractor was my wifes Father ! lol

No disrespect intended but you are exactly the problem in regards to PTG. You supply high volume and profit and you get the attention. The smaller end guy gets the short end More ways then you can imagine. This isn’t a new thing with PTG it goes back more then five years of trouble and with me I started doing business with him about 20 years ago. Just about every rifle builder on here, or who has been here at one time no longer does business with them at all if they can help it, Including myself.

I’ve been burned more then once. Overcharged, charged twice for the same item, charged and then months later contacting me saying I owe them money and then demanding I prove I paid, sending me something I didn’t order then trying to charge me a restocking fee because I wanted to send back their mis-shipment. I should have just kept the free part, waiting months for an item only to get it out of spec or wrong then demanding a restocking fee for their screw up, or the kicker for me was losing my prototype parts and then finding out an employee reportedly quit or was fired and took my stuff with him, and Dave refused to help get the parts back.

No it’s not just one thing or their inconsistant reamers from prints I have, it was a lot more BS due to their business practices and the high turn over of people they have working for them that don’t know what the hell they are doing.

I’m glad it‘s working for you and I hope it continues for you with no problems, it’s all peaches and cream until it Isn’t. Unless you know the entire history nothing you say or do is going to fix it. Dave use to be on this forum, can you guess why he no longer shows his face around here?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MarinePMI
No disrespect intended but you are exactly the problem in regards to PTG. You supply high volume and profit and you get the attention. The smaller end guy gets the short end More ways then you can imagine. This isn’t a new thing with PTG it goes back more then five years of trouble and with me I started doing business with him about 20 years ago. Just about every rifle builder on here, or who has been here at one time no longer does business with them at all if they can help it, Including myself.

I’ve been burned more then once. Overcharged, charged twice for the same item, charged and then months later contacting me saying I owe them money and then demanding I prove I paid, sending me something I didn’t order then trying to charge me a restocking fee because I wanted to send back their mis-shipment. I should have just kept the free part, waiting months for an item only to get it out of spec or wrong then demanding a restocking fee for their screw up, or the kicker for me was losing my prototype parts and then finding out an employee reportedly quit or was fired and took my stuff with him, and Dave refused to help get the parts back.

No it’s not just one thing or their inconsistant reamers from prints I have, it was a lot more BS due to their business practices and the high turn over of people they have working for them that don’t know what the hell they are doing.

I’m glad it‘s working for you and I hope it continues for you with no problems, it’s all peaches and cream until it Isn’t. Unless you know the entire history nothing you say or do is going to fix it. Dave use to be on this forum, can you guess why he no longer shows his face around here?
Until you said that I had forgot they double charged me too. They charged me apx 800 when I ordered 4 custom carbide reamers then again when they shipped. I called and they refunded the card then charged me again the next day. They did that twice then I filed a chargeback with the CC company.
The whole 6.8 problem began with a transposed number on the print(PTG print) that created a 80 degree angle from the neck to the freebore junction instead of the 45 degree. That sharp corner shaved copped off the bullets as they were chambered. All of those shavings would build up and clamp on the bullets causing blown primers. I sent 6 emails trying to explain where they had transposed the number, of course they didn't see it. I said just use my drawings as I have them drawn to make my reamers you can do whatever you want with other reamers. About 3 years later they changed the drawing but kept the same print number and date on it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JeffLebowski
I am considering ordering a 700 bolt body, but after reading this, am not so sure now.

Are there any other options for an oversized bolt body?