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Penn State goes 0-2

Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">So each team will only get 6-4 star recruits? So all of the teams I've quoted so far getting 10+ commitments will have to give their commitments to someone else? NO. Some teams will get more than others. BTW, 30% of the 2013 recruiting class has already committed to the SEC. Let's go back and see what happens after signing day. Doesn't leave a lot to go around to the others. </span> </div></div>

Smartguy does not understand the word "average"??
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Smartguy, Urban Meyer won wherever he went. He took Bowling Green and Utah to greener pastures, and he took Florida to a level that matched Spurrier (which no one thought was possible).

<span style="font-weight: bold">First, Bowling Green especially and up until recently Utah as well, are not impressive teams. Now Utah in the last few years have definitely improved and proved themselves to be a big time program and contender but no one is impressed with Bowling Green.</span>

You do not think it's a big deal when a team like Utah, a team filled with 2-3 star recruits, beats up on a BCS Conference Champ like Pitt? A Pitt team filled with 4-star recruits? Or a Utah team (filled with 3 star recruits) that beat SEC runner up Alabama (a team filled with 4 and 5 star recruits)? Did you ask your friend that worked for the NCAA?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Absolutely not. First, again I'm not impressed with Pitt or any team from the ACC or Big East. With the exception of a few flashes in the pan none of those teams are special. They are definitely not consistent winners and both of those conferences are extremely weak in the lower half. So if I'm supposed to be wowed by a victory over Pitt, I'm not going to be. After all, their all time winning percentage is only a tick over .500. How is that impressive?</span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Smartguy, I do not mind going in circles, because at least I have been there before and have experience saying it already hahhaah. now.....
Do you really believe Penn State will go the way of SMU? You know SMU, a program that has not recovered since it received it's death Penalty almost 30 years ago? By my calculations, Penn State should be a top 25 program again in 3 years... or maybe even sooner. When was the last time SMU saw the top 25?

<span style="font-weight: bold">I doubt seriously that PSU will end up like SMU. I do not eliminate the potential entirely. A slim possibility is still a possibility and even though the odds of winning the lottery are astronomical, people win almost every week. There are a lot of hurdles to get over before PSU is back on track. Will they get there? I hope so, but it's definitely not going to be in 3-4 years.</span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Smartguy does not understand the word "average"??

<span style="font-weight: bold">Let me see if I can use it in a sentence.

The SEC is getting an above-average amount of 4+ star recruits this year therefore many BCS teams will get none.

How's that?</span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">I don't think you mind repeating yourself as much as you like to hear yourself talk. For a top tier, i.e. consistent top 10 team, a four star recruit is the norm rather than the exception. (remember you talked about norms vs. exceptions earlier?) So for a non-top tier team like PSU to get 4, it's not impressive. Now just because they have four now does not mean they are "on pace" to get 8-10. Again, we will both see after signing day.</span> </div></div>


smartguy, have you heard of this thing called "National Signing Day?"... I am thinking you might have heard of it since Dumbguys know about this day. I am sure you have heard of it.. but can I talk to your dog about "National Signing Day?"

Cartmann to Smartguys Dog: "National Signing day works like this, no one has to commit until Feb 1st, most recruits do not commit until Dec, and some even wait until the very last second to announce. Some teams, do get a lot of guys to commit early, and you will see by Sept, they have 3/4th of available scholarships filled. This year you will see that recruiting powerhouse Nebraska only has 3 4-star recruits committing at this point, however Nebraska already gave out 15 scholarships at this point. Penn State, right now has 4 4-star recruits, and handed out 9 total at this point.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

smartguy, have you heard of this thing called "National Signing Day?"... I am thinking you might have heard of it since Dumbguys know about this day. I am sure you have heard of it.. but can I talk to your dog about "National Signing Day?"

Cartmann to Smartguys Dog: "National Signing day works like this, no one has to commit until Feb 1st, most recruits do not commit until Dec, and some even wait until the very last second to announce. Some teams, do get a lot of guys to commit early, and you will see by Sept, they have 3/4th of available scholarships filled. This year you will see that recruiting powerhouse Nebraska only has 3 4-star recruits committing at this point, however Nebraska already gave out 15 scholarships at this point. Penn State, right now has 4 4-star recruits, and handed out 9 total at this point.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I've already had this conversation with your cat. You're a cat guy I can tell. So now I'll explain it to you.

I'm only measuring by the meter you choose to use. I thought we've already talked about when National Signing Day occurred so I'm not sure why we're taking this lap again. You measured earlier PSU's potential success by the fact that 4-4 star recruits have committed there already. I said 4-4 stars are not impressive as many teams have 10+ already. Now you say it's all moot because nothing matters until signing day. So which is it? Do your 4-4 stars count now along with all the other commitments or do we ignore commitments and see who signs with whom in February? Again, the amount of scholarships that will be available are unknown, even by the coaching staff.

You can't change horses mid stream, make up your mind on how to measure potential with regards to these schools and recruits. </span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">First, Bowling Green especially and up until recently Utah as well, are not impressive teams. Now Utah in the last few years have definitely improved and proved themselves to be a big time program and contender but no one is impressed with Bowling
Green.</span>

</div></div>

Smartguy, what are you smoking? Is this what your friend who works for the NCAA told you? In Meyers first year at Bowling Green he did the one of the greatest rebuilds in college football history. They went 8–3 in Meyers first year (using someone else's recruits) The next year he went 9–3. Meyer wins wherever he goes.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Smartguy, what are you smoking? Is this what your friend who works for the NCAA told you? In Meyers first year at Bowling Green he did the one of the greatest rebuilds in college football history. They went 8–3 in Meyers first year (using someone else's recruits) The next year he went 9–3. Meyer wins wherever he goes.

<span style="font-weight: bold">No one said Urban Meyer isn't a good coach, I only alluded that he walked into an already successful program at Florida. Michael Schumaker will drive a Hyundai well, not as well as an F1 car, but he will still do a great job.

Like it or not, Bowling Green is still only Bowling Green. You can polish a turd but all you're going to get is a shiny turd. </span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">Let me see if I can use it in a sentence.

The SEC is getting an above-average amount of 4+ star recruits this year therefore many BCS teams will get none.

How's that?</span> </div></div>

Impressive! Smartguy can use "average" in a sentence. You are truly a smart guy!

The SEC as a whole might is getting a lot because they have 14 teams. Not all the SEC teams get their fair share though. I am seeing Ole Miss and Vandy getting under the average.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've already had this conversation with your cat. You're a cat guy I can tell. So now I'll explain it to you.

I'm only measuring by the meter you choose to use. I thought we've already talked about when National Signing Day occurred so I'm not sure why we're taking this lap again. You measured earlier PSU's potential success by the fact that 4-4 star recruits have committed there already. I said 4-4 stars are not impressive as many teams have 10+ already. Now you say it's all moot because nothing matters until signing day. So which is it? Do your 4-4 stars count now along with all the other commitments or do we ignore commitments and see who signs with whom in February? Again, the amount of scholarships that will be available are unknown, even by the coaching staff.
</div></div>

Smartguy, you are reading way too much into things. If you look at the Rivals-top-250, you will see about 50% of the guys not declaring yet.

I think I was the one that pointed to you that some teams do get their recruits to commit early so at least you learned that. Not bad for a smart guy!
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Impressive! Smartguy can use "average" in a sentence. You are truly a smart guy!

The SEC as a whole might is getting a lot because they have 14 teams. Not all the SEC teams get their fair share though. I am seeing Ole Miss and Vandy getting under the average.

<span style="font-weight: bold">12 out of 14? I'll take it. Now how many total will the ACC and Big Easy get? And since other conferences do not have 14 teams, lets just use 85%</span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Smartguy, you are reading way too much into things. If you look at the Rivals-top-250, you will see about 50% of the guys not declaring yet.

I think I was the one that pointed to you that some teams do get their recruits to commit early so at least you learned that. Not bad for a smart guy!

<span style="font-weight: bold">What is the point you are trying to make here? That since 50% of the recruits have not committed yet the teams laking their share to balance out the average will get a rush at the last minute? Will not the same happen for those teams already stacked with recruit commitments? Keep ducking and dodging, I think your lap times are improving.</span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">No one said Urban Meyer isn't a good coach, I only alluded that he walked into an already successful program at Florida. Michael Schumaker will drive a Hyundai well, not as well as an F1 car, but he will still do a great job.

Like it or not, Bowling Green is still only Bowling Green. You can polish a turd but all you're going to get is a shiny turd. </span> </div></div>

Smartguy has not learned yet that this is not about Bowling Green, this is about Urban Meyer. Meyer wins wherever he goes! Florida was successful, but before Meyer they only had 1 NC, after Meyers 6 years there he won 2 National Championships!

A Good coach trumps all.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Impressive! Smartguy can use "average" in a sentence. You are truly a smart guy!

The SEC as a whole might is getting a lot because they have 14 teams. Not all the SEC teams get their fair share though. I am seeing Ole Miss and Vandy getting under the average.

<span style="font-weight: bold">12 out of 14? I'll take it. Now how many total will the ACC and Big Easy get? And since other conferences do not have 14 teams, lets just use 85%</span>
</div></div>

I love having conversations with Smartguy because I get to repeat msyelf. Again I don't mind repeating myself makes it easier, I already know what I am going to say.

"on AVERAGE, there are only 6 4-star recruits available on a per team basis"

I am sure smartguy is smart enough to use the internet to see where these guys are going.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Smartguy has not learned yet that this is not about Bowling Green, this is about Urban Meyer. Meyer wins wherever he goes! Florida was successful, but before Meyer they only had 1 NC, after Meyers 6 years there he won 2 National Championships!

A Good coach trumps all.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Dumb guy has not learned that winning at Bowling Green is not impressive and that there are many coaches who could win there. If Urban Meyer was the football god you portray him to be why did he only win two national championships? Why did he choose to leave Florida?

Lastly, this is not about Florida or Urban Meyer, it's about Penn State's future. Now back to your regularly scheduled fallacies. </span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

I love having conversations with Smartguy because I get to repeat msyelf. Again I don't mind repeating myself makes it easier, I already know what I am going to say.

"on AVERAGE, there are only 6 4-star recruits available on a per team basis"

I am sure smartguy is smart enough to use the internet to see where these guys are going.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Every time I see your response I am reminded of that song by Billy Preston titled "going around in circles".

So according to you, 50% of the recruits are uncommitted. Your "average" is wrong. It will not average out to 6 recruits per team. You should look up the definition between mean, median and average.</span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">What is the point you are trying to make here? That since 50% of the recruits have not committed yet the teams laking their share to balance out the average will get a rush at the last minute? Will not the same happen for those teams already stacked with recruit commitments? Keep ducking and dodging, I think your lap times are improving.</span> </div></div>

smartguy the numbers are what they are, at present, there are still a lot of guys that have not committed yet. I don't have any say where they go or how they go.
Here is what we do know:
1) Penn State has only given out 9 scholarships this year
2) Penn State has got commitments from 4 4-star recruits so far.
3) National signing day is Feb 1st

with about 10 scholarships still available, you do not think Penn State can land say 4 more? If not, that is fair, but like I said, according to the Rivals250, a lot of guys have not committed yet, and Penn State has plenty of more scholarships to offer.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Dumb guy has not learned that winning at Bowling Green is not impressive and that there are many coaches who could win there. If Urban Meyer was the football god you portray him to be why did he only win two national championships? Why did he choose to leave Florida?

Lastly, this is not about Florida or Urban Meyer, it's about Penn State's future. Now back to your regularly scheduled fallacies. </span> </div></div>

Can a dumb guy ask 2 dumb questions?
1) If many coaches can win at Bowling Green why are they not doing it?
2) Meyer turned around a bad team with some other guys player. Smartguy can't see this is not a sign of a great coach?

And Yes this is about Penn State.. Penn State has the resources to get a good coach that can rebuild their program. Heck, if Penn State would have hired Myer, they would be in contention for a National Championship in 2 years. Despite the scandal, Penn State has 4 4-star players already committing to them, the facts points out that this is more than some SEC teams. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I love talking to smartguys!
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

smartguy the numbers are what they are, at present, there are still a lot of guys that have not committed yet. I don't have any say where they go or how they go.
Here is what we do know:
1) Penn State has only given out 9 scholarships this year
2) Penn State has got commitments from 4 4-star recruits so far.
3) National signing day is Feb 1st

with about 10 scholarships still available, you do not think Penn State can land say 4 more? If not, that is fair, but like I said, according to the Rivals250, a lot of guys have not committed yet, and Penn State has plenty of more scholarships to offer.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Do I think it's possible? Of course. Do I think it's likely that they will get 4 more? Not without extenuating circumstances. I would put the odds at between 3:1 and 5:1, but then again my crystal ball isn't working this morning.</span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">Every time I see your response I am reminded of that song by Billy Preston titled "going around in circles".

So according to you, 50% of the recruits are uncommitted. Your "average" is wrong. It will not average out to 6 recruits per team. You should look up the definition between mean, median and average.</span>
</div></div>

TRAPPED! See my sig, I was just waiting for you to say that woooooo hoooo! booyah. TRAPPED!

You were the one that wanted to use only BCS teams. Which a dumb guy feels is fine, because it's rare to have a 4-star recruit going some place other than a BCS school. I was only playing along with the numbers you wanted to use, 46, for 46 BCS teams. I am doing 250/46... I can do 250/120 if you want. Which one do you ratio do you want me to use?

Because if I use 120, that means each team on AVERAGE only gets about 2 4-star recruits. That means Penn State already is way ahead of the curve!

I will use whatever numbers you want. Let me know, that is what dumb guys are here for.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Can a dumb guy ask 2 dumb questions?
1) If many coaches can win at Bowling Green why are they not doing it?
2) Meyer turned around a bad team with some other guys player. Smartguy can't see this is not a sign of a great coach?

And Yes this is about Penn State.. Penn State has the resources to get a good coach that can rebuild their program. Heck, if Penn State would have hired Myer, they would be in contention for a National Championship in 2 years. Despite the scandal, Penn State has 4 4-star players already committing to them, the facts points out that this is more than some SEC teams. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I love talking to smartguys!

<span style="font-weight: bold">1) Any top tier coach can win at Bowling Green. Why aren't they doing it? That question can be answered with Why did Urban Meyer leave? Money? Fame? Notoriety? The chance to win a NC? Why would anyone stay at BG when they have a chance to move UP?

2) The caliber of player is the caliber of player. Urban Meyer didn't do anything to those kids. He just coached them better. Again, no one said UM wasn't a good coach.

Why doesn't Urban Meyer go to PSU? Why aren't any top 10-15 coaches trying to get there? Hmmmmmm?

The fact is PSU has 4-4 star recruits already committed to go there. That's more than 15% of the SEC teams. Whew. You've got Ole Miss, the worse team in the SEC beat by two recruits. You must feel empowered!</span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Do I think it's possible? Of course. Do I think it's likely that they will get 4 more? Not without extenuating circumstances. I would put the odds at between 3:1 and 5:1, but then again my crystal ball isn't working this morning.</span> </div></div>

That's fair. Considering the scandal was less than 1 year ago, I consider getting 4 4-star recruits quite an accomplishment at this point. These guys don't grow on trees like you seem to think.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

TRAPPED! See my sig, I was just waiting for you to say that woooooo hoooo! booyah. TRAPPED!

You were the one that wanted to use only BCS teams. Which a dumb guy feels is fine, because it's rare to have a 4-star recruit going some place other than a BCS school. I was only playing along with the numbers you wanted to use, 46, for 46 BCS teams. I am doing 250/46... I can do 250/120 if you want. Which one do you ratio do you want me to use?

<span style="font-weight: bold">I keep laughing and laughing. How did you trap me? I'm going by your numbers and the fact I didn't fact check you is irrelevant we are talking about 46 BCS teams. We are talking about 300 (or 250) 4 star recruits. It doesn't matter, the facts remain the same and that is Penn State with 4-4 star recruits is neither impressive or above average.

If you feel you've won a victory because you've strayed off course, you haven't. All you've done is strayed off course.
</span>

 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">1) Any top tier coach can win at Bowling Green. Why aren't they doing it? That question can be answered with Why did Urban Meyer leave? Money? Fame? Notoriety? The chance to win a NC? Why would anyone stay at BG when they have a chance to move UP?

2) The caliber of player is the caliber of player. Urban Meyer didn't do anything to those kids. He just coached them better. Again, no one said UM wasn't a good coach.

Why doesn't Urban Meyer go to PSU? Why aren't any top 10-15 coaches trying to get there? Hmmmmmm?

The fact is PSU has 4-4 star recruits already committed to go there. That's more than 15% of the SEC teams. Whew. You've got Ole Miss, the worse team in the SEC beat by two recruits. You must feel empowered!</span> </div></div>


I highly doubt any top tier coaches can walk into Bowling Green with someone else's player and win. Thinking they can must means you do not live in the same reality that I live in, and it's not my job to convince anyone anything. Urban Meyer never even had a full recruiting class there.

Does a smartguy really have to ask dumbguy why Urban Meyer left bowling green???? A Smart guy does not know???

As for PSU, as long as Paterno was alive, PSU was not a very attractive place to go. Paterno is part of the old guard, like Al Davis, in their heyday these guys were great, but now they are old and delusional, and they are holding onto powers they should let go. Now that Paterno is no longer with PSU, they can pretty much hire whoever they want (If O'Brian does not work out). The Boosters for a program like Penn State though won't be satisfied with a top 15 finish each year, they will probably expect to be in contention for the NC. This is it is almost certain Penn State will be a top 15 program.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">I keep laughing and laughing. How did you trap me? I'm going by your numbers and the fact I didn't fact check you is irrelevant we are talking about 46 BCS teams. We are talking about 300 (or 250) 4 star recruits. It doesn't matter, the facts remain the same and that is Penn State with 4-4 star recruits is neither impressive or above average.

If you feel you've won a victory because you've strayed off course, you haven't. All you've done is strayed off course.
</span>

</div></div>


I am just having a discussion with a smartguy, for me it's not about winning. I trapped you into saying something I suspected you would say and you fell for the trap. So what numbers do you want me to use?

I can go on whatever course you want? I can talk about how Penn State has the resources to come back to a top 20 team, and thinking they will not come back I think is very foolish. So we should stick to talking about that?

Let me know what the smart guy wants to talk about.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

I highly doubt any top tier coaches can walk into Bowling Green with someone else's player and win. Thinking they can must means you do not live in the same reality that I live in, and it's not my job to convince anyone anything. Urban Meyer never even had a full recruiting class there.

Does a smartguy really have to ask dumbguy why Urban Meyer left bowling green???? A Smart guy does not know???

As for PSU, as long as Paterno was alive, PSU was not a very attractive place to go. Paterno is part of the old guard, like Al Davis, in their heyday these guys were great, but now they are old and delusional, and they are holding onto powers they should let go. Now that Paterno is no longer with PSU, they can pretty much hire whoever they want (If O'Brian does not work out). The Boosters for a program like Penn State though won't be satisfied with a top 15 finish each year, they will probably expect to be in contention for the NC. This is it is almost certain Penn State will be a top 15 program.

<span style="font-weight: bold">You can highly doubt all you want. It's a hypothetical argument at best. However, I do believe that a Nick Saben, Les Miles, Pete Carroll, etc. Yes, Urban Meyer is a good, talented coach however I don't believe he's the god you make him out to be. We will see what he does at OSU. However I will no longer discuss the merits of UM here.

A smart guy knows why Urban Meyer left. So does a dumb guy. Everyone knows and it was due to the reasons I listed disguised as rhetorical questions.

Paterno is gone not only from the program but from this earth and with him went his influence. PSU is a prime opportunity for either a second tier coach to step up and prove themselves or an established coach to build another dynasty. Either way PSU is about to start a new chapter of a book no one realized they were going to read. Too bad we can't just skip to the last page.</span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You can highly doubt all you want. It's a hypothetical argument at best. However, I do believe that a Nick Saben, Les Miles, Pete Carroll, etc. Yes, Urban Meyer is a good, talented coach however I don't believe he's the god you make him out to be. We will see what he does at OSU. However I will no longer discuss the merits of UM here.

</div></div>


Trapped again! I knew you were going to say that.

Thing is this smartguy, you are banking on speculation. I am banked (notice the past tense) on stuff that already happened. You only speculate that other Coaches can when at Bowling Green with other coaches players, while Meyers actually went out and done it. Meyer took a bad program, with someone else's players and won, this is a feat that very few have done. Keep in mind he also won at Utah, the first BCS Busting coach in history (bowl).

You drive the direction of what we will talk about so if you do not want to talk about this, that is fine, I will talk about whatver smartguy wants.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Paterno is gone not only from the program but from this earth and with him went his influence. PSU is a prime opportunity for either a second tier coach to step up and prove themselves or an established coach to build another dynasty. Either way PSU is about to start a new chapter of a book no one realized they were going to read. Too bad we can't just skip to the last page.[/b] </div></div>

So smartguy agrees with dumbguy that Penn State will be back? Back to a Top 20 Program again, maybe even top 5?
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

You've accomplished your goal of showing me you have no knowledge of what you're talking about, you can't stay on subject and you're a hypocrite.

Feel free to follow up with whatever you like.

PSU will not be a top 10-15 program within the next 5 years.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You've accomplished your goal of showing me you have no knowledge of what you're talking about, you can't stay on subject and you're a hypocrite.

Feel free to follow up with whatever you like.

PSU will not be a top 10-15 program within the next 5 years. </div></div>

How can dumb guy go off topic when he is following the lead of the smart guy?

That Statement from smartguy: <span style="font-weight: bold">"PSU will not be a top 10-15 program within the next 5 years"</span> is a pretty bold statement considering PSU has the support program to be a powerhouse again. They have the alumni base, they have the boosters, and they have fans willing to pay for PSU games.

I think now you are just being hopeful for personal reasons. I see Top 15 again by 2016 easily.

Now if this happens, please don't get mad at me, dumbguy has no control in any of this, reality is what it is. To predict the future, we have to use our notebooks, and I can see dumb guy notes are much different than the notes smartguy has.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

That Statement from smartguy: <span style="font-weight: bold">"PSU will not be a top 10-15 program within the next 5 years"</span> is a pretty bold statement considering PSU has the support program to be a powerhouse again. They have the alumni base, they have the boosters, and they have fans willing to pay for PSU games.

<span style="font-weight: bold">My statement is bold but your statement that they will be a top contender within 3 years is realistic?

And let's talk about their infamous support program. Where was this support program, alumni base, boosters and fans when Jo Pa was there? Did they just miraculously appear? Because all of that was irrelevant since PSU was insignificant, prior to the scandal. You said yourself "I am guaranteeing a PSU Comeback. I guess it depends on what you mean by "coming back". Even before the scandal broke, PSU was not very good, not even top 25. So at the very least, PSU will comeback to that." So they weren't very good before the scandal and now the scandal is here all of a sudden everything comes into play? I guess it was just a big conspiracy to hold back until their program was in the toilet THEN bring out all the big guns.</span>

I think now you are just being hopeful for personal reasons. I see Top 15 again by 2016 easily.

<span style="font-weight: bold">They weren't before but in four years they're going to rebuild a top 15 program? Ok</span>

Now if this happens, please don't get mad at me, dumbguy has no control in any of this, reality is what it is. To predict the future, we have to use our notebooks, and I can see dumb guy notes are much different than the notes smartguy has.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Yes, and I will reiterate what was said earlier. We will monitor their progress diligently and see where this goes...</span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">My statement is bold but your statement that they will be a top contender within 3 years is realistic?

And let's talk about their infamous support program. Where was this support program, alumni base, boosters and fans when Jo Pa was there? Did they just miraculously appear? Because all of that was irrelevant since PSU was insignificant, prior to the scandal. You said yourself "I am guaranteeing a PSU Comeback. I guess it depends on what you mean by "coming back". Even before the scandal broke, PSU was not very good, not even top 25. So at the very least, PSU will comeback to that." So they weren't very good before the scandal and now the scandal is here all of a sudden everything comes into play? I guess it was just a big conspiracy to hold back until their program was in the toilet THEN bring out all the big guns.</span>


<span style="font-weight: bold">They weren't before but in four years they're going to rebuild a top 15 program? Ok</span>

</div></div>


Trapped again! I was just waiting for you to say "where was the support system"... I thought you were going to say it 500 post ago, but does not matter.. late is better than never. I had my answer already written down so here is my copy and paste answer:

Smartguy, No one could take down Joe Pa, the U President tried to send him his walking papers in 2004, but he laughed in their faces and kept his job (until Sandusky was exposed in 2011). This is the power Joe Pa had.

Now that Joe Pa and his regime is out of the picture, Penn State can more easily get back to the top. Actually Sandusky being exposed is probably one of the best things that could have happened to Penn State Football. Not only do they get moral characters in charge now, but they now can start getting good football back to Penn State. It's been a long time for Penn State.

Check out this article here about the power of Joe Pa http://www.jimmashek.com/2011/11/11/jim-mashek-column-joe-paterno-is-a-hypocritical-fraud/

Are we still on topic smartguy? or am I going off topic? If I am can you put me back on course?
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Trapped again! I was just waiting for you to say "where was the support system"... I thought you were going to say it 500 post ago, but does not matter.. late is better than never. I had my answer already written down so here is my copy and paste answer:

Smartguy, No one could take down Joe Pa, the U President tried to send him his walking papers in 2004, but he laughed in their faces and kept his job (until Sandusky was exposed in 2011). This is the power Joe Pa had.

Now that Joe Pa and his regime is out of the picture, Penn State can more easily get back to the top. Actually Sandusky being exposed is probably one of the best things that could have happened to Penn State Football. Not only do they get moral characters in charge now, but they now can start getting good football back to Penn State. It's been a long time for Penn State.

Check out this article here about the power of Joe Pa http://www.jimmashek.com/2011/11/11/jim-mashek-column-joe-paterno-is-a-hypocritical-fraud/

<span style="font-weight: bold">Surprisingly you did bring it back on topic although you're still running the same laps.

How am I trapped? Do you even know the definition of the word? You remind me of the guy who thinks he's a great checkers player when they're actually playing chess.

I mean this is classic! So the alumni, boosters, fans, etc. were all held back by Jo Pa. Sure, he had all kinds of power but if I recall boosters still had to sign the donation checks and I'm sure Jo Pa didn't hold a gun to their head. And was Jo Pa so stupid or was his judgement so clouded that he didn't realize his program was sucking as bad as it was? After all, according to you "It's been a long time for Penn State." I guess Jo Pa was just stupid.

So by your own admission, you can't answer the question except JO PA HAD THE POWER.

I will give you this though, down the line everyone will be able to look back and see that this scandal and Jo Pa's passing was the best thing to happen to PSU.

Please keep it coming. </span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold">Surprisingly you did bring it back on topic although you're still running the same laps.

How am I trapped? Do you even know the definition of the word? You remind me of the guy who thinks he's a great checkers player when they're actually playing chess.
</span> </div></div>

"Trap" here is I made you post something voluntarily. I knew what you were going to post, so I wrote my follow up question before you posted.

I can't wait to say "Trapped" again.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I mean this is classic! So the alumni, boosters, fans, etc. were all held back by Jo Pa. Sure, he had all kinds of power but if I recall boosters still had to sign the donation checks and I'm sure Jo Pa didn't hold a gun to their head. And was Jo Pa so stupid or was his judgement so clouded that he didn't realize his program was sucking as bad as it was? After all, according to you "It's been a long time for Penn State." I guess Jo Pa was just stupid.

So by your own admission, you can't answer the question except JO PA HAD THE POWER.

I will give you this though, down the line everyone will be able to look back and see that this scandal and Jo Pa's passing was the best thing to happen to PSU.

Please keep it coming. [/b] </div></div>

Let me explain it in dumb guy terms so smart guy of high stature like you can understand... I am not 100% satisfied with College Football either, but I will still put money into it. Same could be said of the Penn State Booster, only on a different level. Now with Joe Pa not there calling all the lame shots, Penn State should be able to move forward. Joe Pa to me resembles Al Davis, both great guys that were great for football, but that was long ago.. and both should have stepped down long ago.

How was that for a dumb guy explanation to a smart guy with high stature such as yourself?
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Trapped!!!

That was just a practice trap. Not real, training.. need to stay sharp for the next trap.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Smartguy, Right now I don't have any traps set up. I have to see what you give me in the next couple of posts, to see what I need for my future traps.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is what I'm going to give you.

The count down has begun.

We will see what happens with this program in the next four years. </div></div>

I am thinking you are going to hope they fail so you can say I told you so. It's not about using logic to think what can possibly happen, it's about sticking with your original post, and being "right" so you can say I told you so... correct? hahaha.

Also why only 4 years? Why not 6 years? You have to give a program time to get out of their suspension no? Well does not matter to me, success is measured in wins, and think Penn State will have as many wins as the 15th ranked team in about 3 years. We will just have to wait and see how much games Penn State wins (rumor has it that some AP members will not vote for Penn State during the suspension.. as for the coaches poll, their members are mandated not to vote for Penn State during those 4 years).
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

Also why only 4 years? Why not 6 years? You have to give a program time to get out of their suspension no? Well does not matter to me, success is measured in wins, and think Penn State will have as many wins as the 15th ranked team in about 3 years. We will just have to wait and see how much games Penn State wins (rumor has it that some AP members will not vote for Penn State during the suspension.. as for the coaches poll, their members are mandated not to vote for Penn State during those 4 years).
<span style="font-weight: bold">
You have said in multiple posts it would take four years or less.

The line is drawn in the sand on our positions. The clock is ticking. </span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's exactly what they said at SMU and look how they bounced back. Oh wait, they didn't they're has beens that haven't bounced back after 25 years. I don't see Penn State shrugging this off very easily. This is much more serious than a "pay to play" scandal. </div></div>

I can give you 1.7 billion reasons why Penn State is not SMU.

Who said that about SMU? Whoever said that about SMU does not really understand the politics of College Football. SMU is a small time program, with a small student body, and no support system. The reason SMU got in trouble is because they did the same thing as the big boys, and they did it out in the open. SMU was beginning to start recruit Nationally (in the big boys turf).. and when you play with the big boys, you better be ready to play.

Total opposite of SMU you have Penn State, huge student body, huge support system. Penn State gets a couple hundred million a year from their boosters... they also have an endowment worth about $1.7 Billion! Can you figure out the 1.7 billion reasons? </div></div>

I stopped reading there so I don't know if this has been brought up or not. You might want to take a look at SMU's endowment. $1.2 Billion....... Not bad for a school with 25% of the student body of Penn State.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also why only 4 years? Why not 6 years? You have to give a program time to get out of their suspension no? Well does not matter to me, success is measured in wins, and think Penn State will have as many wins as the 15th ranked team in about 3 years. We will just have to wait and see how much games Penn State wins (rumor has it that some AP members will not vote for Penn State during the suspension.. as for the coaches poll, their members are mandated not to vote for Penn State during those 4 years).
<span style="font-weight: bold">
You have said in multiple posts it would take four years or less.

The line is drawn in the sand on our positions. The clock is ticking. </span> </div></div>


So say if Penn State is top 5 in 2016, that means you were right? hahahahahaha.

Here is the real situation: From 2012-2015, Penn State is only allowed to add 15 scholarship players per year, and they can't exceed 65 total... I am thinking they will struggle to keep 65. I am looking at one class, they are going to have 22 guys leaving, and if you are only allowed to add 15, that means they will only have 58 scholarship players that year (65-22= 43) (43+15=58). Having 20 or more less-quality athletes to choose from, it will hurt them! Might cost them a top 15, but they still should have enough guys to to be top 25 (which is still better than what they were pre-scandal). Provided they stay healthy.

Also like I said, it's a numbers game, say if you have 4 incoming Fr RB's coming in, you are banking one will shine.. but if you cut it down to only 2 incoming Fr. RB, and you are banking one to shine, well your chances of that "one" will be much less.

I think this Penn State team is pretty good, at least they met my expectations. I knew they would have a tough time with both Ohio (a team coached by Solich and filled with quality staring upper classmen) and Virgina (a rebuilding team themselves, but they have always recruited well).
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TSUshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I stopped reading there so I don't know if this has been brought up or not. You might want to take a look at SMU's endowment. $1.2 Billion....... Not bad for a school with 25% of the student body of Penn State. </div></div>

I was just waiting for someone to bring that up! Yes that is why they paid a lot for their current coach. Also have you seen their facilities now? Amazing! They should have pumped more money into Football long time ago.

SMU though, does not have the fan support or alumni base that Penn State has. Penn State has practically the entire East Coast rooting for them, SMU is in Dallas, and king there is UT (which has a huge alumni base, as well many more boosters). Between Texas and aTm, I don't think there is much support left over.

A school I see much like SMU is Miami, a small school with a lot of bandwagon fans. But Miami has not won in 10 years, and soon the bandwagon will be empty. This past NFL draft was the first draft in like over 30 years where there was not a Miami player taken in the first 2 rounds. Miami was among the college football elites for a good 25 years, but they will go the same way as SMU. Even without a suspension, Miami was bound to go down. King in Florida will be Florida and FSU (Huge Alumni Bases), and I believe even USF will be better than Miami in this next decade.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<span style="font-weight: bold">TRAPPED!!!!

You fell for my trap. You're a flip flopper dumbguy and you contradict yourself. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also why only 4 years? Why not 6 years? You have to give a program time to get out of their suspension no? Well does not matter to me, success is measured in wins, <span style="font-weight: bold">and think Penn State will have as many wins as the 15th ranked team in about 3 years.</span> We will just have to wait and see how much games Penn State wins (rumor has it that some AP members will not vote for Penn State during the suspension.. as for the coaches poll, their members are mandated not to vote for Penn State during those 4 years). </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Let's address this paragraph first. Why 4 years? Because that is what you said multiple times (see below). Every quote was from a different thread.

Do they have time to get out of their suspension? NO, because you made the claims they were coming back DESPITE their suspension so why does it matter NOW???

Rumor has it AP members will not vote for PSU during the suspension? Rumors? Can you predict the future? How do you know this? Do you have a crystal ball?

Now the coaches poll. They are MANDATED? You, of course, have proof of this correct?

So here are your multiple quotes</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say in 4 years they will be right in the thick of things.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Penn State has the support system to get back on track. 4 years to be a top 15 program again is very likely.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I see Top 15 to be very likely.. and maybe even a top-5 4-6 years down the line, or maybe even sooner.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am guaranteeing they will be back to at the very least 2010 levels... in 4-6, I see a very likely top 15 team again, and even a top 5 is quite possible (though not very likely).</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By my calculations, Penn State should be a top 25 program again in 3 years...</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">So these quotes do not have a specific time but it's obvious they're part of a bigger pattern.</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So the comeback might be even faster than I thought. yeah I am the idiot! hahaha.
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want me to clarify: Top 5 is a remote possibility, but a top 15 is very likely. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

SMU though, does not have the fan support or alumni base that Penn State has. Penn State has practically the entire East Coast rooting for them, SMU is in Dallas, and king there is UT (which has a huge alumni base, as well many more boosters). Between Texas and aTm, I don't think there is much support left over.</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">HAHAHAHA. So PSU has the entire East Coast rooting for them but SMU only has Dallas? No, SMU has the entire state of Texas and the entire Southwest. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A school I see much like SMU is Miami, a small school with a lot of bandwagon fans. But Miami has not won in 10 years, and soon the bandwagon will be empty. This past NFL draft was the first draft in like over 30 years where there was not a Miami player taken in the first 2 rounds. Miami was among the college football elites for a good 25 years, but they will go the same way as SMU. Even without a suspension, Miami was bound to go down. King in Florida will be Florida and FSU (Huge Alumni Bases), and I believe even USF will be better than Miami in this next decade. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Let me laugh at this. Miami was going down because of the shitty coaching, and the criminals disguised as college students. And you want to criticize bandwagon fans and want to mention Florida and Florida State? You obviously don't live in the south because the south is FULL of bandwagon fans.

Face it Eric, it's over. You have nothing more to contribute to this discussion and you've already made firm your position. Your bullshiting over scholarships, attempts at deflection, and going in circles just sounds like yada yada yada.

You said PSU will be a top 15 team within four years.

The clock continues to tick.</span>
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">TRAPPED!!!!

You fell for my trap. You're a flip flopper dumbguy and you contradict yourself. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also why only 4 years? Why not 6 years? You have to give a program time to get out of their suspension no? Well does not matter to me, success is measured in wins, <span style="font-weight: bold">and think Penn State will have as many wins as the 15th ranked team in about 3 years.</span> We will just have to wait and see how much games Penn State wins (rumor has it that some AP members will not vote for Penn State during the suspension.. as for the coaches poll, their members are mandated not to vote for Penn State during those 4 years). </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Let's address this paragraph first. Why 4 years? Because that is what you said multiple times (see below). Every quote was from a different thread.

Do they have time to get out of their suspension? NO, because you made the claims they were coming back DESPITE their suspension so why does it matter NOW???

Rumor has it AP members will not vote for PSU during the suspension? Rumors? Can you predict the future? How do you know this? Do you have a crystal ball?

Now the coaches poll. They are MANDATED? You, of course, have proof of this correct?

So here are your multiple quotes</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I say in 4 years they will be right in the thick of things.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Penn State has the support system to get back on track. 4 years to be a top 15 program again is very likely.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I see Top 15 to be very likely.. and maybe even a top-5 4-6 years down the line, or maybe even sooner.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am guaranteeing they will be back to at the very least 2010 levels... in 4-6, I see a very likely top 15 team again, and even a top 5 is quite possible (though not very likely).</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By my calculations, Penn State should be a top 25 program again in 3 years...</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">So these quotes do not have a specific time but it's obvious they're part of a bigger pattern.</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So the comeback might be even faster than I thought. yeah I am the idiot! hahaha.
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want me to clarify: Top 5 is a remote possibility, but a top 15 is very likely. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

SMU though, does not have the fan support or alumni base that Penn State has. Penn State has practically the entire East Coast rooting for them, SMU is in Dallas, and king there is UT (which has a huge alumni base, as well many more boosters). Between Texas and aTm, I don't think there is much support left over.</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">HAHAHAHA. So PSU has the entire East Coast rooting for them but SMU only has Dallas? No, SMU has the entire state of Texas and the entire Southwest. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricCartmann</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A school I see much like SMU is Miami, a small school with a lot of bandwagon fans. But Miami has not won in 10 years, and soon the bandwagon will be empty. This past NFL draft was the first draft in like over 30 years where there was not a Miami player taken in the first 2 rounds. Miami was among the college football elites for a good 25 years, but they will go the same way as SMU. Even without a suspension, Miami was bound to go down. King in Florida will be Florida and FSU (Huge Alumni Bases), and I believe even USF will be better than Miami in this next decade. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Let me laugh at this. Miami was going down because of the shitty coaching, and the criminals disguised as college students. And you want to criticize bandwagon fans and want to mention Florida and Florida State? You obviously don't live in the south because the south is FULL of bandwagon fans.

Face it Eric, it's over. You have nothing more to contribute to this discussion and you've already made firm your position. Your bullshiting over scholarships, attempts at deflection, and going in circles just sounds like yada yada yada.

You said PSU will be a top 15 team within four years.

The clock continues to tick.</span> </div></div>

Before I answer any of this, why did you use Cartmann's word trapp? Do yo have secret gay love for Cartmann? and you want to use the same words he does????
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bet Cartmann sure feels dumb right about now..... </div></div>

I am respect you, because a lady should always stick up for her man. He can't take care of himself so that is why you jumped in.
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

You have had 3 pages of senseless argument over a school that has a football program that endorses the harassment of young men..... and YOU support them.

Your turn Mr. Kettle.

We are still waiting on that fascinating answer to Mike's post. So, where is it?
 
Re: Penn State goes 0-2

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have had 3 pages of senseless argument over a school that has a football program that endorses the harassment of young men..... and YOU support them.

Your turn Mr. Kettle.

We are still waiting on that fascinating answer to Mike's post. So, where is it?
</div></div>

4 points:

1) I don't control any of this, if Penn State wins or loses... they will do it with or without my support. All I am pointing out is they have the support to overcome, that they are not SMU, and will not totally die.

2) These were not "young men that got sexually harassed". By saying that you are masking the true darkness of all this. "These were little boys that got their A holes reamed". I know that sounds very bad, but that is what really did happen, the truth is what it is.

3) I am not a Penn State Fan, so I don't support them with or without the Rapers in charge (and Raper's friends). Though I will say, I am happy to see all the raper-friends in charge, are no longer in the picture.

4) What is senseless argument? Just because I don't see the same world as you? Just because you don't want Penn State will win again does not mean it won't happen. If you want Penn State to lose, that is all fine and dandy, but looking at all the little details, I think they will overcome, and they might even possibly be top 15 before the suspension is over. Please don't hate the messenger... again I do not have control in any of this.
 
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