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Penzey's Spices - Guns Are Dumb

“With all that said I would not hesitate to use deadly force to protect me, my family or loved ones” eca7891

@eca7891 why argue these points when you're of the same mind as the people you're arguing with?

Apologies to The38super for my poor reading comprehension.
Fuck Bill Penzey!
The quote from op isn’t 100% wrong. That was my point.

Same mindset. Mostly but not 100%.

My point is go into this eyes wide open. There are real probabilities that could devastate your life even if you are eventually proven innocent.

Sure. You could blast away with the mindset that it is probably self defense and anyways chances are you won’t be charged.

Or

Understated the potential fallout of going through a trial that will cost you everything you have in life. Access the situation, cover your legal bases, be informed and act accordingly.

Two points.

Remember the cops the shot and killed the hero that took action to save someone. No charges. Had that been you or I it would have been prison and a massive trial bill.

Another point from the self defense instructor.

You walk around a corner and there is a guy laying in the sidewalk, blood everywhere. There is a guy standing over him with a blood covered knife. Do you shoot?

Most of the class said yes. Story was… he was stabbed in his house, stumbled outside and collapsed on the sidewalk. person ran to his aid and pulled the knife out. You came around the corner, shot and killed him.

Now look at all the acquittal self defense cases in EVERY state. It’s a real thing.

So when you choose to act make sure you are 1000% correct.
 
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In regards to @eca7891 ‘s bullshit, training is a business, and firearms trainers are salesmen. I’ve been to a half dozen concealed carry courses including the mandatory ones. If you think going through one of these courses makes you ”trained” you’re as dumb as Penzey. Operating a firearm is very simple. It’s so simple people have been defending themselves for 100+ years without the firearms training industry! Can you believe it?!?! They used to put bottles on a fencepost, shoot at them, and call it training. Jelly Bryce would quick draw in a mirror and call it training (the rube!).

Penzey is fucking retarded, and his insight into defending oneself and/or taking a life is totally informed by the leftist media where he gets all his information. Your breath of knowledge seems to be solely informed by firearms instructors. That’s like getting all your firearms advice from the clerk at the gun store.

I went to baby class with my wife, but she would have had that baby class or no and hospital or no. You sound like you were born last night.
 
I’ve been to a half dozen concealed carry courses including the mandatory ones. If you think going through one of these courses makes you ”trained” you’re as dumb as Penzey.
Other than that section this is the absolute most fucking retarded thing I have read on here to date.

Thinking that operating a firearm in a high stress situation is so simple a baby could do it.

I’ll let others be the judge of that.

Completely reckless statement
 
The Spice House has a great selection.
Yes and if I am not mistaken it's the same family. I think I heard that they had a falling out many years ago and Penzy broke off and did the mail order thing until internet made him a sensation.
Changed to Spice House ages ago when Penzeys mouthed off with pro immigration rhetoric.
I did as well
I stopped buying from them years ago… because they went totally woke. Bought a LOT from them, too.

Since then, their catalogs go in the trash. Dirtbag company.

Sirhr
Yep - same here. The only problem I have is that I have not found a good substitute for their seasoned salt. I love the stuff - especially on my morning eggs. I have tried to make my own but haven't found the right recipe. Anyone know a good seasoned salt (and I don't mean grocery store or Lawry's - I mean the good stuff)?
 
Yes and if I am not mistaken it's the same family. I think I heard that they had a falling out many years ago and Penzy broke off and did the mail order thing until internet made him a sensation.

I did as well

Yep - same here. The only problem I have is that I have not found a good substitute for their seasoned salt. I love the stuff - especially on my morning eggs. I have tried to make my own but haven't found the right recipe. Anyone know a good seasoned salt (and I don't mean grocery store or Lawry's - I mean the good stuff)?
Jane's Crazy Mixed up Salt... available at most Grocery stores.

Used to love it on Short Ribs.

Sirhr
 
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I used to really love that Crazy Jane's stuff when I could still eat steaks. Never tried it on anything else - I 'll have to give it a try.
 
Thinking that operating a firearm in a high stress situation is so simple a baby could do it.

I’ll let others be the judge of that.
That isn't what he said

People who invent strawmen and intentionally misquote others are fucking douchebags.

@Fig is 100% correct about probably 95% of firearm training out there. I made it to USPSA A class in Carry Optics and have won my share of level 1 matches without a single fucking minute of paid training.

If you think that's an easy task, let me know where I can meet you at a match so I can judge your skill level.

Only after I got to that level did I seek training and it was to polish my skills to go to the next level, which gets exponentially harder.

The stress of competition is nowhere close to the stress of a fight, but I will tell you this it's several orders of magnitude greater than what non-competitors ever see unless they do force on force.
 
That isn't what he said
Well,it’s exactly what I heard. Perhaps I misinterpreted it.
I made it to USPSA A class in Carry Optics and have won my share of level 1 matches without a single fucking minute of paid training.
Great. You learned how to play a game. Higher stress situations as a way to get familiar with you firearm Definitely has value in doing. If it increases your confidence in yourself and your firearm it’s worth doing.
The stress of competition is nowhere close to the stress of a fight, but I will tell you this it's several orders of magnitude greater than what non-competitors ever see unless they do force on force.
I totally agree

If you think that's an easy task, let me know where I can meet you at a match so I can judge your skill level.
I never said it was.

Let me ask you this.

How many ccw permit holders in the US do you think took any training after they go through a joke of a class they call the ccw class ( the required one)?

I think the big disconnect here is that people think I’m talking solely about the people on this forum or about them specifically, I’m not. I’m talking about out of ALL the gun owners in America.
 
How many ccw permit holders in the US do you think took any training after they go through a joke of a class they call the ccw class ( the required one)?

I don't care how many have or have not. Let me ask you this: how many of those "untrained" people win gunfights every year?

Not sure why you've made it your mission to save us from ourselves.


Great. You learned how to play a game.
I didn't just learn how to play a game. I trained myself to the point where my gun handling and marksmanship run at a high level subconsciously so that I can concentrate on solving the problem at hand, be it a USPSA stage or something else more important.

Notice I didn't pay anyone to teach me. The resources on how to teach yourself are easily available for a modest cost.
 
I don't care how many have or have not. Let me ask you this: how many of those "untrained" people win gunfights every year?

Not sure why you've made it your mission to save us from ourselves.
Personally I don’t care about what you do. It’s your life to live and your costs to bear.

I’m telling people they had better be informed because it could cost them everything.This includes competently using a firearm. Even if they win they can still lose.

You are free to ignore the cost if you like. I chose to think before I act.

How many untrained win? As a majority are most likely untrained I’m sure plenty. I’m also sure trained ones have better odds. I’m also sure that those competently trained in self defense usage and laws are far less likely to be charged. But by all means blast away if you want to roll the dice.

This whole thing started with the opening paragraph from the op’s quoted letter. Followed by “ look at all the a acquittals in self defense cases. It’s a real risk and to completely ignore that has potential consequences.” Which then morphed into a “ that does t happen in my city/state”.

Nice job in cherry picking and not posting what immediately followed.

Now which one of us is intellectually dishonest?
 
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never heard of them, but it’s nice they outed themselves. fuck’em.

regarding firearms training….. 95% (or more) of what is out there does more for the people providing the class than it does for the people taking it. every single one of the people teaching courses out there that i have come across…shouldnt be instructing anything. i’ve seen gun enthusiests who work at gun shops who have certifications by X,Y, and Z and they dont know the first fucking thing about anything-other than fleecing people of their money. i’ve seen LEO’s teaching classes-from sky marshalls to former policemen. all of them ridiculous and i’ve pointed out the flaws in their thinking to them, but they are so bogged down in their way of thinking, they just can not fathom anything else.

it’s laughable when i see people say “people aren’t trained enough” yeah, GO FUCK YOURSELF. all you are doing is looking to others for permission and affirmation. at that point, you are a fucking joke to me. you’ve outed yourself through your own fucking ignorance and you dont even know it. so fuck your certifications, fuck your “training”.

“not trained enough’’….ha!
 
never heard of them, but it’s nice they outed themselves. fuck’em.

regarding firearms training….. 95% (or more) of what is out there does more for the people providing the class than it does for the people taking it. every single one of the people teaching courses out there that i have come across…shouldnt be instructing anything. i’ve seen gun enthusiests who work at gun shops who have certifications by X,Y, and Z and they dont know the first fucking thing about anything-other than fleecing people of their money. i’ve seen LEO’s teaching classes-from sky marshalls to former policemen. all of them ridiculous and i’ve pointed out the flaws in their thinking to them, but they are so bogged down in their way of thinking, they just can not fathom anything else.

it’s laughable when i see people say “people aren’t trained enough” yeah, GO FUCK YOURSELF. all you are doing is looking to others for permission and affirmation. at that point, you are a fucking joke to me. you’ve outed yourself through your own fucking ignorance and you dont even know it. so fuck your certifications, fuck your “training”.

“not trained enough’’….ha!
Not trained enough
Lmao.

I’m saying most have NONE AT ALL.

None meaning not even a single box or range trip.

I have had 5 ad’s happen around from these skilled gun handlers you are defending. Btw all of them have considered themselves safe and responsible gun owners. I consider every gun owner incompetent until they prove otherwise.


We can agree to disagree

The ad’s I’m referencing had impacts within 5’-10’ of me or others or in the direction of people down range. I’m not talking about those I’m competition what went in a “safe” direction.
 
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regarding firearms training….. 95% (or more) of what is out there does more for the people providing the class than it does for the people taking it.
Probably an accurate enough number.

I can’t help that you or others didn’t do your research before selecting one. 🤷‍♂️
 
I did a 3 day pistol class (500rds/day), one of the other students was a sergeant at a suburban NJ police force. He told us most of the guys on the force were lucky they didn't shoot themselves.
 
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Whole lot of truth in that.

I had a state trooper tell me a lot of stories like that.
 
Glad to see this posted. The end for them in this house. Alternatives listed here seem to be good. Don't cancel the catalogs. Let them spend the money and use for fireplace.

Guerilla tactics.......savage.

I like the cut of your jib.

Should we make friends with the banned ARFCOM guy?
 
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We may condemn the untrained with guns just like we condemn the stupid sheeple when it comes to voting. But the truth of the matter is that they are both rights bestowed on Americans. It's up to them to make the best use of them.
 
The quote from op isn’t 100% wrong. That was my point.

Same mindset. Mostly but not 100%.

My point is go into this eyes wide open. There are real probabilities that could devastate your life even if you are eventually proven innocent.

Sure. You could blast away with the mindset that it is probably self defense and anyways chances are you won’t be charged.

Or

Understated the potential fallout of going through a trial that will cost you everything you have in life. Access the situation, cover your legal bases, be informed and act accordingly.

Two points.

Remember the cops the shot and killed the hero that took action to save someone. No charges. Had that been you or I it would have been prison and a massive trial bill.

Another point from the self defense instructor.

You walk around a corner and there is a guy laying in the sidewalk, blood everywhere. There is a guy standing over him with a blood covered knife. Do you shoot?

Most of the class said yes. Story was… he was stabbed in his house, stumbled outside and collapsed on the sidewalk. person ran to his aid and pulled the knife out. You came around the corner, shot and killed him.

Now look at all the acquittal self defense cases in EVERY state. It’s a real thing.

So when you choose to act make sure you are 1000% correct.


You couldnt find a better example than quoting some commie America hater and helping to push his message.
 
Well,it’s exactly what I heard. Perhaps I misinterpreted it.

Great. You learned how to play a game. Higher stress situations as a way to get familiar with you firearm Definitely has value in doing. If it increases your confidence in yourself and your firearm it’s worth doing.

I totally agree


I never said it was.

Let me ask you this.

How many ccw permit holders in the US do you think took any training after they go through a joke of a class they call the ccw class ( the required one)?

I think the big disconnect here is that people think I’m talking solely about the people on this forum or about them specifically, I’m not. I’m talking about out of ALL the gun owners in America.

How much training did KR have?

How many people could perform to his level?

Why was he able to do the impossible?
 
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How much training did KR have?

How many people could perform to his level?

Why was he able to do the impossible?
How much money did he have backing him?

What happens to him of the jury hung and he is retried?

Do you think you will have this amount of public backing if you are facing a self defense trial?

Maybe you get the opportunity to come back and tell me how wrong I am after you go through a trial like that.

He was WAY in the clear on shootings 2 and 3 but faced a real risk in shooting 1

So let me get this right.

You think pulling the trigger on someone has no downside to possibly destroying your entire life?? Because the is exactly what this “ commie “ you accuse me of backing said. And in that specific statement I said they are not 100% wrong.

Still stand by it.

This training discussion came afterwards. Btw. Still stand by it too.
 
You couldnt find a better example than quoting some commie America hater and helping to push his message.
Sure. Plenty are out there. Just happens the op posted this. A majority of what he quoted is complete shit but this one part he has a legit point.

You want better examples feel free to what I said earlier. Just search self defense acquittals. Plenty of examples of winning and still losing. Self defense convictions are a losing and losing more. Pretty sure we may see that in Georgia 🤷‍♂️

Then you have the self defense and you end up dead. The ultimate loss.

So yeah. There is plenty of downside.

Upside. You could save your life. Pretty significant motivation.

And no. Waiting for the police to respond is not an option.

Which is why I said I wouldn’t hesitate to do so to protect myself or my family but while doing so I’m fully aware of ALL possible outcomes. I’ll do all I can to make my legal defense as good as possible. ( Btw there will be a legal defense. If you are involved in a shooting you had better get an attorney involved. )

What I don’t get it why people seem to take that so lightly.

And with that we can agree to disagree.
 
Btw there will be a legal defense. If you are involved in a shooting you had better get an attorney involved

This is why people are disagreeing with you so hard.

Being involved in a self defense shooting is no guarantee that you'll be run through the legal mill. That is extremely dependent on the jurisdiction that you're in, assuming your shoot is clean as far as following your local laws.

Whatever the fuck your experience is where you are is not the same as everyone elses.

Please give it a rest already.
 
Not sure why this is even an argument.

The experience / training / skill level of people carrying a gun for self defense literally covers the entire range from never shot one before to never had a waking moment without one.

Yeah, some woke idiot said guns are dumb. So?
The same idiot probably thinks the Biden / Harris ticket is the greatest political thing to ever happen on the planet.
The woke idiot is entitled to his opinion.
I can live with that.
 
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This is why people are disagreeing with you so hard.

Being involved in a self defense shooting is no guarantee that you'll be run through the legal mill. That is extremely dependent on the jurisdiction that you're in, assuming your shoot is clean as far as following your local laws.

Whatever the fuck your experience is where you are is not the same as everyone elses.

Please give it a rest already.

This one was in Boston.......a bastion of persecuting gun owners if there ever was one.


They tried to put the shooter through the psychological trial process while the case was being investigated. Treated the life saver very poorly.

In the immediacy of the incident the woman being stabbed was very thankful for the action and the outcome.

Year or so later she was in the news questioning "Could something else have been done?"

I know the shooter, have met him on a few occasions and every occasion has made me a better person from being in his proximity. Im sure this weighs on his mind some but i have told him I was most happy he was okay and that he was there to save a life.
 
In the immediacy of the incident the woman being stabbed was very thankful for the action and the outcome.

Year or so later she was in the news questioning "Could something else have been done?"

This is part of the reason why now I mind my own fucking business unless it's someone in my circle who is being attacked.

What a fucking cunt
 
Not trained enough
Lmao.

I’m saying most have NONE AT ALL.

None meaning not even a single box or range trip.

I have had 5 ad’s happen around from these skilled gun handlers you are defending. Btw all of them have considered themselves safe and responsible gun owners. I consider every gun owner incompetent until they prove otherwise.


We can agree to disagree

The ad’s I’m referencing had impacts within 5’-10’ of me or others or in the direction of people down range. I’m not talking about those I’m competition what went in a “safe” direction.
i will submit to you those same people would be every bit as inept post training.
 
Probably an accurate enough number.

I can’t help that you or others didn’t do your research before selecting one. 🤷‍♂️
i have never, and will never, NOR can i advise anyone to pay for, “training”. you want training? raise your right hand and take the oath. put your ass in the real world and learn from the best in the biz.

my guess is you are one of those people who put a lot of stock in the hyped garbage you paid for. not me.
 
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i have never, and will never, NOR can i advise anyone to pay for, “training”. you want training? raise your right hand and take the oath. put your ass in the real world and learn from the best in the biz.

my guess is you are one of those people who put a lot of stock in the hyped garbage you paid for. not me.
Nah. Just ignore advice from morons like you.

You have been trolling me for a reply so there.

Ya got it
 
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Other than that section this is the absolute most fucking retarded thing I have read on here to date.

Thinking that operating a firearm in a high stress situation is so simple a baby could do it.

I’ll let others be the judge of that.

Completely reckless statement

Okay Jimmy what are your qualifications?
How many high stress shootings have you been involved with?
 
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Okay Jimmy what are your qualifications?
How many high stress shootings have you been involved with?

*Edit: retracting that part as I don’t really care to share it. *

As I have said to others. We can agree to disagree or not. I don’t care anymore. You have your opinion. I have mine. Neither is changing.
 
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*Edit: retracting that part as I don’t really care to share it. *

As I have said to others. We can agree to disagree or not. I don’t care anymore. You have your opinion. I have mine. Neither is changing.
my default position with the antis is “not another fucking inch”.

so when i see folks like you trying to give any kind of merit to their bullshit, i react. not sorry.

you are probably the same kind of person who regurgitates the bullshit about only using factory ammo because blah blah blah blah….
 
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Guerilla tactics.......savage.

I like the cut of your jib.

Should we make friends with the banned ARFCOM guy?
:) You'll have to refresh my memory on the arf guy.
If there seems to be one subject that really sets off the hide, it is banning. I don't get it in some of the cases as it always turns into a dog pile, but it's not my site and I haven't been around that long. Maybe just a rite of passage?
 
Just some food for thought @eca7891

Up until WWII the most significant number of justifiable homicides (or not prosecuted) according to FBI statistics was with the .32 cal. That was always considered a "ladies pistol", and it was generally deployed by women with zero firearms training other than functionality and maybe bottles on the fencepost, but most likely not. You can spit "training" propaganda, or look at the facts, and the facts do not point to training being anything other than a fun hobby for adults.

If you've read Mass Ayoob, which I assume you have since you seem believe training is part of your 2ndA "rights" and not just a hobby, he trains the untrained. Taking classes does not make you trained. He teaches what is basically the panicked, clenched-fist, and point shooting at contact distances under the highest duress. Ayoob basically trains his students to panic (or at least he assumes they will panic), and although this will immediately rankle someone who is actually "trained" (someone who does more than take a class), ultimately you begin to see the limitations of "training", and why what he does in his "training" is actually the very best you can do in one class or even a series of classes. While it is less than useless for someone who has put millions of rounds down range and is actually trained to move/fire as a matter of habit, it is actually very valuable for everyone else. What he basically teaches is what any untrained person defending themselves with a handgun would do without any training. He just walks you through it with the hope that being familiar will help when you get there, but of course, you never know till you get there. I used to hate Ayoob till I met him in my early 20s and tried to tell him about all the shortcomings of his course. In about five minutes he had schooled my in why he does it that way, and pretty much burst my bubble about the value of "training". Ayoob is right for 99.9% of handgun carriers out there.

You can take as many "classes" as you want, and my guess is that if you have to defend yourself you will be trying to crush your grip, and your whole finger is through the trigger guard, your heartbeat is going to go through the roof and you will be hyperventilating with your feet planted if you ever have to shoot. You will do the exact thing Ayoob trains for whether you've done his class or not. It's inevitable.

We can talk about real training, which includes hundreds or thousands of hours of practice, with all sorts of additional skills like combat breathing, but if you don't have work guns and this is not your vocation who has the time? Even those who have work guns rarely take the time unless they're professional door kickers and training is their day job. Believing that taking some classes is going to change how you react if you have to defend youself is silly.

Take the Ayoob class, because at least it's real and honest. Unless you're prepared to sleep with your pistol and fire at lease 100 rounds a day on a combat course you are simply not going to build the muscle memory or have the disposition to John Wick your attackers. You will defend yourself like everyone else with a handgun, which is to say untrained...
 
Thankfully, the only spices I've ever gotten are generic brand from a store. :cool:
 
You know this guy got called pansy all the time growing up. It shows.
 
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Didn’t read any of it and still don’t care.

😂
 
Finally got around to sending him a polite, yet blunt response. He replied within 15 minutes with the following:
“Responsible Gun owner” is an oxymoron and NRA propaganda. There is nothing responsible about bringing an item into your home that will increase the chance of violent death for you and your family members five-fold. But you are indeed free to invent absurd realities where your gun makes you that special hero. Pew-pew.

Owner of the company says 'don't buy from me anymore and tell your friends'. Okay, you got it!
 
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it is a well hidden secret how many crimes, including rape and assaults, are stopped by a privately owned firearms.
lots of people live in such sheltered environments that they will never understand the need for self protection.
Cause the MSM reports on positive 2A events all the time.
 
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