Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

BgBmBoo

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Looking for ideas for a new tactical type rifle based on the BAT Machine action. Some pics showing off such rifles would be...a inspiration to me!!
grin.gif


Thanks,Stan
 

Jer

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BgBmBoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking for ideas for a new tactical type rifle based on the BAT Machine action. Some pics showing off such rifles would be...a inspiration to me!!
grin.gif


Thanks,Stan </div></div>

Here ya go Stan, this should help with your BAT question:

Click me.

grin.gif
 

BgBmBoo

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

Your funny....funny like a clown. In fact...you amuse me!
crazy.gif



Take care,Stan
 

rsilvers

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

The action is very nicely made, but I decided it is too great of a problem that the recoil lug is in the incorrect spot. I had to modify this stock for it to fit, and that is too much to ask.
aactacmodsmall.jpg


img6336small.jpg
 

BgBmBoo

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

Recoil lug in the incorrect spot? Please explain...from the picture it looks to be where it is supposed to be.

Take care,Stan
 

rsilvers

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

BAT made it 0.090 or so closer to the bolt handle, so this means you must modify a stock to accept this action. That might not be a big deal for a fiberglass stock, but I drawn the line at milling my AICS stock. I milled the Tac-Mod stock and did a great job of it, but now that stock won't accept a normal action.

Also BAT uses 18 pitch threads rather than 16, which is non-standard and I cannot think of what purpose it serves other than to make it harder to get barrels.
 

BgBmBoo

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

Gotcha. Just a FYI those issues are not limited to BAT actions. Surgeon 591, Badger 2000,etc., will require fitting in a chassis style stock,or regular stock made for a Remmy SA footprint.

I always plan on some fitting required when doing a custom build.

Take care,Stan
 

TEAMSENDIT

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

man i was thinking the exact same thing. if you could just get a 3 lug repeater with aw magwell. maybe a dual port with left ejection. integral rail and lug. add in the 60 degree bolt with tactical tolerances/M16 extractor, and you would have the ultimate action.

Just thinking about it has me salivating and fighting the urge to call bat up and see if available.
 

rsilvers

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

So what actions will drop into most chassis stocks? Anything that has a built in recoil lug and rail?
 

BgBmBoo

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

Most of the "custom" actions that have the integral rail and lug are exactly that...custom. A vast improvement over a factory action. But usually the recoil lug is larger, the bolt handle is "different" ,the bolt release moved to the side of the action, and so the stock/chassis will need to be modified to accommodate all these changes, etc.

Again...when your spending $1200+ on a action. A $1000 on a stock. Etc.,etc. Your probably not to worried about some additional inletting. This is what separates a "custom" build from a stock build.

Most "drop in" aftermarket actions are exactly that. A very close copy of a factory action. No built in rail,recoil lug,etc. As with moth things...there is always a trade off.

I have heard that the new AICS chassis now has a larger recess to accommodate the larger recoil lugs.

Take care,Stan
 

rsilvers

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

The problem is not that the recoil lug is wider - it is that he moved it back to the wrong location.

What does FEA say about the standard recoil lug thickness? Is it ok?

Most of the nice things about a custom action, such as fine finish quality, tight bolt fit, a nice handle, a nice take-down button, and a built-in rail could be done without changing the stock interface.
 

Jasonbu

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

A pic of a Gap built Bat Machine Repeater I sold. Rifle was in 6.5 Creedmoor, this baby would shoot. Best group was 4 5/8" at 894 yards. Average groups at that range were 5.5 to 6" that day.

DSC02053.jpg


GAP65-1.jpg
 

Cinch

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

Stan, I'll have a pic for you on Saturday. Going to go pick mine up this week!
 

Hasgun Willtravel

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

While a BAT action is one of the finest pieces of mechanical poetry in motion, it is my opinion, that it would make a poor, rather piss poor "Tactical" rifle.

By definition, a "Tactical" rifle is going to get laid on, drug in dirt, floated through water, get dust blown in the action, sand, dirt, gravel covered, and will still work as designed.

A BAT action will get sticky and gummy as hell, and just not function for shit once the action and raceways fill with dust and dirt in a stiff breeze shooting prone, I have seen it.

With that said, they are probably the finest action for shooting from the bench, as is their intended purpose, off machine rests, in Benchrest matches.

Its kind of like buying a Ferrari to win a mud bog. Best isn't always best.
 

ADT

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

See everyone always shoots down an action because its too tight so it will end up locking up with dirt but they never say actions that are good for "rough" play. Can anyone help on that topic. Would a Lawton stand the test of time (more like dirt). Sorry if im hijiking.
 

rsilvers

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

The BAT Tactical action has wider clearance than the normal BAT actions. Though I am not sure if it is enough wider.

You can also consider the Nesika action.
 

BgBmBoo

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

Nice rifle Jason! Great groups too.
HasGun....I am not trying to build "tactical" rifle....just a the tactical look. That is why I put tactical "type" in my OP. I know...play'in on words. And I would agree with you on the BAT's tolerances being a bit tight for low crawling through the mud with.
I have a Surgeon Scalpel for tactical shooting.

That being said...I like BAT actions. My last bench rifle used the M action and chamber in 6XC. Great shooter. Won a few 1000 yard matches with it.

I look forward to more pics and opinions.

rsliver...when I said wider...I meant front to back. Not side to side. And again. If you try and drop a Surgeon 591, Bardger,etc. into your chassis you will have the same issue.
I think a stock Remmy lug is .187" or there about in thinkness, and the BAT, Surgeon,Badger,etc., use .250" thick lugs.


Take care,Stan
 

rsilvers

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

Why don't they just make the lug thicker on the front side rather than where it contacts the stock?
 

skeetlee

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

Im not so sure i by all that. Bat makes some of the finest actions on the market and have been doing so for a while now. When BAt makes a repeater action i am am pretty sure they no its not going to be on a bench gun. I dont know buy would have to think that there is a bit more wiggle room in there repeater action as opposed the there other bench action. I dont know this but it would only make since. Lee
 

GunGuru727

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jasonbu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A pic of a Gap built Bat Machine Repeater I sold. Rifle was in 6.5 Creedmoor, this baby would shoot. Best group was 4 5/8" at 894 yards. Average groups at that range were 5.5 to 6" that day.

DSC02053.jpg


GAP65-1.jpg


</div></div>

Sessy...very sessy
 

KYS

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem is not that the recoil lug is wider - it is that he moved it back to the wrong location.

What does FEA say about the standard recoil lug thickness? Is it ok?

Most of the nice things about a custom action, such as fine finish quality, tight bolt fit, a nice handle, a nice take-down button, and a built-in rail could be done without changing the stock interface.

</div></div>

How is it "wrong" to put the recoil lug anywhere the designer chooses to put it? I'm sure BAT had their reasons to do such a thing. And I'm pretty sure their track record of top notch actions speaks for itself. I would hate for anyone to have to mill or alter their stock for A CUSTOM BUILD! Customs usually take time and patience to assemble.

Most custom actions of today require some alterations to remington style stock. You couldn't even get a Badger action to come close to fitting into a remington footprint stock.
 

BgBmBoo

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

rsilvers...please do not take this as me attacking you or talking down to you.
It sounds like you should stick to factory guns and accessories that will "bolt on".

As pointed out...a custom build gives YOU a one of a kind rifle built to YOUR specs. Find a good smith...tell him what you want and how you want it. Then it is HIS (the smith's) job to make it all fit,and come together.
With out fail any decent smith will tell you when building a custom rifle that it requires work. This is where all the fit and finish comes in.

I hear people bitching about price with custom builds...they shop around for prices and add them all up. And then they say why does GAP,Surgeon LA Precision, Kampfield,R&D,etc.etc. charge so much!?!?!

Well...cause they make those "mis-placed" recoil lugs, safety levers, bolt handles,etc., all fit and work as they should. That is what your paying for. Not the parts.

Good luck to you.

Take care,Stan

PS...after milling out your chassis you could always bed the recoil lug area...a good thing to do regardless of drop in fit or not.
 

rsilvers

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BgBmBoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hear people bitching about price with custom builds...they shop around for prices and add them all up. And then they say why does GAP,Surgeon LA Precision, Kampfield,R&D,etc.etc. charge so much!?!?!

Well...cause they make those "mis-placed" recoil lugs, safety levers, bolt handles,etc., all fit and work as they should. That is what your paying for. Not the parts.</div></div>

That is part of what I am trying to say. Putting the recoil lug in non-standard location adds greatly to the cost of fitting some stocks (like modern aluminum chassis systems) because they no longer drop in. It also means that after they are modified, they will no longer fit standard actions.

A custom action can do some things better than mass-produced factory actions. But let me ask - what is the upside to the recoil lug being 0.090 further to the rear?
 

BgBmBoo

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

I have no clue?? I am not a gunsmith or a machinist. Again...I pay for those services. And who's standard? Remington's? For BAT there lug location is in the "standard" location.

I pose a question to you...how often do you swap stocks or chassis?
A custom build is just that...a ONE OF A KIND rifle. Why would you take it apart and put a factory action in it? That make no kind of sense to me.

The chassis and stocks that are drop in fit for a factory 700 are for folks that really just want something a bit different looking but are happy with a factory barrel action.

Again...modify a chassis is no big deal. And if you wanted to put a different action in it, then just bed the area's you modified. Simple.

NONE....of the custom rifles you see here on the Hide are "drop in" builds...NONE. They are all hand fitted.

Take care,Stan
 

jasonk

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

I'm going to side with rsilvers on this one. Why scoot back the recoil lug a hair and suddenly make it incompatible with 99% of the stocks out there? Yes, a simple Dremel fix with a synthetic stock, but on an AICS, McRee, TacMod, Manners mini chassis and every other stock that utilizes a bedding block you've eliminated the drop in option. Once milled then that stock can no longer work for any other action but the BAT. Unlike Stiller, Surgeon, Remington, Pierce and all the others that kept the recoil lug in the "right" spot.

I think it was a poor design decision on their part.
 

jasonk

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BgBmBoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I pose a question to you...how often do you swap stocks or chassis?
A custom build is just that...a ONE OF A KIND rifle. Why would you take it apart and put a factory action in it? That make no kind of sense to me.

NONE....of the custom rifles you see here on the Hide are "drop in" builds...NONE. They are all hand fitted.
</div></div>

Guys here do it all the time, how many used AICS stocks do you see in the for sale section.
 

RADcustom

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

It's really no different than what Badger did, just to a little lesser degree. If people want it bad enough they will find a way to make it work.
 

jasonk

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's really no different than what Badger did, just to a little lesser degree. If people want it bad enough they will find a way to make it work.</div></div>

I think it's different. Badger went with a completely different design, a stock for a Badger it like a stock for a Remington or for a Weatherby, it's a completely different inlet at that point.

The BAT from what I can tell is basically a drop in Remington clone except for the recoil lug being back .09" so at that point why not make it a true drop in.
 

RADcustom

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RADcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's really no different than what Badger did, just to a little lesser degree. If people want it bad enough they will find a way to make it work.</div></div>

I think it's different. Badger went with a completely different design, a stock for a Badger it like a stock for a Remington or for a Weatherby, it's a completely different inlet at that point.

The BAT from what I can tell is basically a drop in Remington clone except for the recoil lug being back .09" so at that point why not make it a true drop in. </div></div>

I agree, if their goal was to build a drop-in 700 clone, then they definitely failed. However, as a custom action it is just that, custom. Devcon fixes a lot.
 

RADcustom

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Double D's!

Dremels and Devcon....I'm dangerous with both. </div></div>

I fixed it for you!
laugh.gif
 

rsilvers

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

If you mill an AICS to fit the BAT, you just destroyed its otherwise outstanding resale value. It takes away a lot of the reason for getting a drop-in stock.

I am not necessarily looking only for Remington clones in custom actions. I am open to 3-lugs, built in rails, alternate bolt-removal buttons, QD barrels, fluted bolts, higher quality finishes, and all sorts of fun things. But if you go through the trouble of having the screw-holes in the same spot, the magazine opening in the same location, and the bottom profile the same, you might as well not move the lug back 0.090.

I bet he did it so that a custom stock maker can ensure solid contact with the stock, but they could just use bedding goop for that.
 

skeetlee

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

Fellas a BAT is in no way shape or form a remington drop in or even close to one. Part of a BATS recoil lug system in built into the square back tang. Most folks that would even consider buying a bat action already know these things. Bat is a true custom action and requires a true custom stock. Im not saying you couldnt make one work, all im saying is if your going to spend that kind of money on an action have a stock made for it. Its a system, they go hand in hand. McMillan will make you an A5 for a bat action, as will manners. thats really the only way to look at it, in my mind anyway.
I have 5 BAT actions and i love them. I sold every other non BAT action i owned so i could buy all BAT. I did this for a reason. They are superior! And they are straight! I have had several different custom actions over the past several years and believe me when i say, Some custom actions are not straight!! The BAT action will be!!
I also have a Tom Haverkamp action and it is also true! Fellas this is just my thoughts on the subject, nothing personal! If you buy a BAT buy a stock made for the BAT and be done with it! If you have a stock for a Remy buy a Remy drop in action. Later taters!! Lee
 

rsilvers

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

I knew the recoil lug was proprietary when I got it, and got it anyway. I modified the Tac-Mod stock for it. Now that I have an AICS stock, I wanted to try that also. I just wish I could. I am not willing to mill on the AICS stock just to decide if I want to keep the rifle in it.

Will any of the Surgeon actions drop into an AICS stock without modification? Will any of the Nesika? Will the Badger? Will a McMillan MCRT? I ask asking even though I own some of those and could go try them myself. But it is easier to ask.
 

wnroscoe

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

Robert,

First, I wouldnt modify the AI Chassis unless your moving the recoil lug cutout forward. Not deeper or to the rear

Second, No & Yes. Surgeon receivers will fit into the new AI Chassis just fine but, you will have to slightly modify the bolt handle cutout for the Surgeon bolt handle. It takes a more straight down cutout for them. The side bolt release may also require slight attention.
 

Anchor Zero Six

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

jasonk}I think it's different. Badger went with a completely different design said:
That bears no resemblence at all to an AW
wink.gif


Sorry Jason that was just to good to let slide without a remark.

I understand what Stan is saying about a custom being a custom and yes it can be filled in later to accomodate another action. But its my understanding that most stocks modified to fit an oversized lug are done on the forward face of the lug recess not the rear, meaning it dosnt render it from being drop in for a standard rem action (probably still a good idea to bed though).

Curios as to why the fixation with this particular action over the plethora of others which seem to be less of a hassle to stock. Not knocking your choice just curious as to what features stood out that lead to that decision.

A06
 

916dude!

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Re: Pic request for tactical rifles w/BAT actions

I'm kind of a newbee. I'm planning on building a tac rifle with a BAT. On the recoil lug placement... Just a thought, maybe a dumb one, but maybe BAT made the recoil lug a little further back so it has to be a custom built so hopefully you take it to a good smith and it get's the propper atention it deserverse instead of just just dropping it into a mass produced stock! I don't know anything about the placement of the lug. Just trying to think outside the box. Good luck to all yall! :)