Did some load testing this weekend for my 6.5x47L, and all the CCI 400 primers I used pierced. I was using these as a substitute for the BR-4s I usually use. I have some Sellier and Bellot primers that I picked up from Sinclair. How does the cup strength in the S&B compare to the CCI?
pierced primers
- Thread starter TRG65
- Start date
Re: pierced primers
Check firing pin protrusion to see if it meets the specks. Federals are softer so there for will take a deeper pin strike. I found that CCIs BR 4s as softer also > You may want to change the firing pin to see if this solves your problem. Just some thoughts on this issue I had in the past.
kn
Check firing pin protrusion to see if it meets the specks. Federals are softer so there for will take a deeper pin strike. I found that CCIs BR 4s as softer also > You may want to change the firing pin to see if this solves your problem. Just some thoughts on this issue I had in the past.
kn
Re: pierced primers
Koga sounds like the best idea. I use 450's in my 6.5x47. Never had a problem. You should have between .055" and .065" protrusion on the firing pin. What action is it?
Koga sounds like the best idea. I use 450's in my 6.5x47. Never had a problem. You should have between .055" and .065" protrusion on the firing pin. What action is it?
Re: pierced primers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did some load testing this weekend for my 6.5x47L, and all the CCI 400 primers I used pierced. I was using these as a substitute for the BR-4s I usually use. I have some Sellier and Bellot primers that I picked up from Sinclair. How does the cup strength in the S&B compare to the CCI? </div></div>
Be careful when pierceing primers. The gas blow back could etch the bolt face. Excess headspace will also promote this.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did some load testing this weekend for my 6.5x47L, and all the CCI 400 primers I used pierced. I was using these as a substitute for the BR-4s I usually use. I have some Sellier and Bellot primers that I picked up from Sinclair. How does the cup strength in the S&B compare to the CCI? </div></div>
Be careful when pierceing primers. The gas blow back could etch the bolt face. Excess headspace will also promote this.
Re: pierced primers
Seth, I've been through that whole thing too with my 6.5x47. In my case it was caused by the large firing pin hole (typical of AI/AEMk1) allowing extrusion of the primer cup into the bolt face.
Also, there are two kinds of blown primers; one in which a hole appears under the firing pin dent, and one in which the entire firing pin dent has extruded from the cup. Mine was the latter. In another case, the cause was headspace such as Roscoe said.
At least two remedies for the big hole cause: bush the bolt face, or try CCI#41 primers. I use the primers and solved my problem.
Seth, I've been through that whole thing too with my 6.5x47. In my case it was caused by the large firing pin hole (typical of AI/AEMk1) allowing extrusion of the primer cup into the bolt face.
Also, there are two kinds of blown primers; one in which a hole appears under the firing pin dent, and one in which the entire firing pin dent has extruded from the cup. Mine was the latter. In another case, the cause was headspace such as Roscoe said.
At least two remedies for the big hole cause: bush the bolt face, or try CCI#41 primers. I use the primers and solved my problem.
Re: pierced primers
You might take a look at this thread. It gives a lot of background on primers and ignition criteria.
http://www.shootersjournal.com/Features/Haps/ItDidn'tGoBang.pdf
You might take a look at this thread. It gives a lot of background on primers and ignition criteria.
http://www.shootersjournal.com/Features/Haps/ItDidn'tGoBang.pdf
Re: pierced primers
I'm pretty confident that excess headspace isn't the issue. All the brass that had pierced primers had been fired 2 or 3 times previously in that chamber with only neck sizing. Pretty much every load I ever tried cratered the CCI BR4s. It is a Rem 700 action, but when it was a 308 I had a Tubb firing pin installed, and I did not have it removed when I had GAPrecision convert the rifle to 6.5L.
Several times part of the primer was blown back into firing pin hole, because I had to pry out a piece to get the firing pin to hit the next primer.
I'm pretty confident that excess headspace isn't the issue. All the brass that had pierced primers had been fired 2 or 3 times previously in that chamber with only neck sizing. Pretty much every load I ever tried cratered the CCI BR4s. It is a Rem 700 action, but when it was a 308 I had a Tubb firing pin installed, and I did not have it removed when I had GAPrecision convert the rifle to 6.5L.
Several times part of the primer was blown back into firing pin hole, because I had to pry out a piece to get the firing pin to hit the next primer.
Re: pierced primers
Loading 37.8 Varget/russian small rifle std primer in my 6.5x47.GAP 7000 action-never had a pierced/bad primer with the regular Russion primers in the 6.5 or my 6BR-29.8varget. Maybe your headspace is the issue?barry
Loading 37.8 Varget/russian small rifle std primer in my 6.5x47.GAP 7000 action-never had a pierced/bad primer with the regular Russion primers in the 6.5 or my 6BR-29.8varget. Maybe your headspace is the issue?barry
Re: pierced primers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Be careful when pierceing primers. The gas blow back could etch the bolt face. Excess headspace will also promote this. </div></div>
I know it's not supposed to be a good thing to etch the bolt face, but why?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Be careful when pierceing primers. The gas blow back could etch the bolt face. Excess headspace will also promote this. </div></div>
I know it's not supposed to be a good thing to etch the bolt face, but why?
Re: pierced primers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NativeCraft</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Be careful when pierceing primers. The gas blow back could etch the bolt face. Excess headspace will also promote this. </div></div>
I know it's not supposed to be a good thing to etch the bolt face, but why? </div></div>
Etching from blown primers or primers failing to seal off can and does occur to different degrees. Minor etching (cosmetic issues only) from a one time incident probably wouldn’t cause any problems. If an issue of blowing primers was left un-checked a worse case scenario of major erosion of the bolt face in and around the firing pin hole could occur. It could get to a point that a crater would form and there would be zero support under the primer and to the actual firing pin tip. We’d be surprised as to how few times this would have to happen to cause severe damage from blown or leaking primers. I've seen etching to the point that a large circular area, slightly larger than a primer, had formed from leaking primers. Remember, this is very hot and volatile gas under extreme pressure coming from the rear of the cartridge to cause this. The etching is due to the metal becoming molten for a brief moment and the pressure blowing it out. If any part of this were to hit your unprotected eye, lights out for that eye. When operating under safe and proper conditions precision rifles are great entertainment and a demanding challenge. When operating in an unsafe condition, they're a major incident waiting to happen.
Does any of this sound like a good thing?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NativeCraft</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Be careful when pierceing primers. The gas blow back could etch the bolt face. Excess headspace will also promote this. </div></div>
I know it's not supposed to be a good thing to etch the bolt face, but why? </div></div>
Etching from blown primers or primers failing to seal off can and does occur to different degrees. Minor etching (cosmetic issues only) from a one time incident probably wouldn’t cause any problems. If an issue of blowing primers was left un-checked a worse case scenario of major erosion of the bolt face in and around the firing pin hole could occur. It could get to a point that a crater would form and there would be zero support under the primer and to the actual firing pin tip. We’d be surprised as to how few times this would have to happen to cause severe damage from blown or leaking primers. I've seen etching to the point that a large circular area, slightly larger than a primer, had formed from leaking primers. Remember, this is very hot and volatile gas under extreme pressure coming from the rear of the cartridge to cause this. The etching is due to the metal becoming molten for a brief moment and the pressure blowing it out. If any part of this were to hit your unprotected eye, lights out for that eye. When operating under safe and proper conditions precision rifles are great entertainment and a demanding challenge. When operating in an unsafe condition, they're a major incident waiting to happen.
Does any of this sound like a good thing?
Re: pierced primers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remington 7 1/2 primers are also quite hard. JMHO </div></div>
I agree switch to Rem 7 1/2 .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remington 7 1/2 primers are also quite hard. JMHO </div></div>
I agree switch to Rem 7 1/2 .
Re: pierced primers
Seth, bush the bolt face or let up on the charge. Either will likely fix the problem
Seth, bush the bolt face or let up on the charge. Either will likely fix the problem
Re: pierced primers
Weigh the original striker and weigh the Tubb striker and see what the weight differences are. Get a new striker spring from Wolfe (I would get the next weight above the factory) and measure the free length of the Wolfe against the Remington spring. If Remington is significantly shorter that will probably be your problem. The striker spring has taken a set and has less energy than when new. Springs are not supposed to take a set but unfortunately they tend to.
With what you are describing it sounds like you are blanking the primer with residue going in striker opening. This appears to be lack of striker energy at a level that will hold the pressure spike long enough until it goes back lower. Lowering the striker weight with a iffy spring energy can lead to problems as well.
Weigh the original striker and weigh the Tubb striker and see what the weight differences are. Get a new striker spring from Wolfe (I would get the next weight above the factory) and measure the free length of the Wolfe against the Remington spring. If Remington is significantly shorter that will probably be your problem. The striker spring has taken a set and has less energy than when new. Springs are not supposed to take a set but unfortunately they tend to.
With what you are describing it sounds like you are blanking the primer with residue going in striker opening. This appears to be lack of striker energy at a level that will hold the pressure spike long enough until it goes back lower. Lowering the striker weight with a iffy spring energy can lead to problems as well.
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