Plane crash At Reagan National

[Holliday]

Ran across this. Listen to the degrees she has.

DEI has pervaded every job sector with people who have no business being there.

This tragedy was just the beginning of the havoc that is about to be created by these incompetents. Just the beginning.

For the record if you are female, black, white, brown or green. If you apply for a job, meet the same hiring standards (no special treatment picking you) meet ALL the job requirements that a white male would have to, then all the more power to you.

 

[Im2bent]

https://www.kqed.org/news/12038094/student-loans-default-debt-collection-wages-garnished-may-5

 

[Holliday]

 

[Baron23]

Ran across this. Listen to the degrees she has.

DEI has pervaded every job sector with people who have no business being there.

This tragedy was just the beginning of the havoc that is about to be created by these incompetents. Just the beginning.

For the record if you are female, black, white, brown or green. If you apply for a job, meet the same hiring standards (no special treatment picking you) meet ALL the job requirements that a white male would have to, then all the more power to you.

Couldn't understand a word she said....wow, I guess a Masters in biology and secondary education doesn't include lessons pronunciation of the English language.

 

[Holliday]

https://www.kqed.org/news/12038094/student-loans-default-debt-collection-wages-garnished-may-5

This is a huge problem because for too long these folks have been led to believe Democrats will forgive these loans. The die is cast. We will never recover all these loans. Defaults will skyrocket.

I think we should mostly end college loan assistance. Then work with folks on lowering or eliminating the interest to get their current loans paid off. The government would probably make more money back that way. Plus, the people with loans would feel like they’ve gotten a little something from the Republicans.

Meanwhile, with the government out of the college funding business, colleges would have to regroup and bring down their costs and prices.

Private charities, organizations and companies could then backfill with subsidies for tuition.

 

[Holliday]

Couldn't understand a word she said....wow, I guess a Masters in biology and secondary education doesn't include lessons pronunciation of the English language.

With DEI it is not just our safety in peril…..

 

[Lightning8]

This started under Obama. Do the math - 8 years under Obama, 4 years under Trump (he did not support WOKE but did not root out the leaders put in under Obama), 4 years of Biden. All the Federal agencies including DoD corrupted at the top leadership and below levels. Will take 20 years to root out the corruption (unless Trump is truly motivated). Yes, the instructor pilot was concerned for his career, livelihood, etc. Unfortunately, that hesitation cost a lot of people their lives.

This should be the defining event that drives a stake in DEI for military and civilian world - especially aviation!

 

[JAS-SH]

Ok captain SIMPy

This post shows a fundamental simp mischaracterization of the multidimensional problem with DEI.

The plural of anecdote is not data. “A lot” is not data.

Having an issue with DEI is not the same as having an issue with ALL female pilots. Yes there are many competent female pilots. That is not in dispute.

The problem is,as I stated in my other post, promoting people past their level of competency and fast tracking these people because they have a VAGINA!!!

And yes this copilot deserves blame for simping instead of doing his job!

Freakin hell simps suck so fucking bad!



View attachment 8675912

You should know better than to go all guns broadside without having the details. FIRST! I'm over 70, and don't give a rats ass about DEI.

Second, I was flying b4 most people in this forum were born so I know a thing or two on how that works. Third, the PIC is ALWAYS in charge. Two sets of full controls and displays. The PIC which had all the comms and situational awareness HAD to know they were 1) at the wrong altitude and 2) he called a visual separation (look THAT up.)

Personally, I thinks there is more to this. than a "DEI" recruit. And by the way, there's is no taking a knee to DEI in Army aviation. You can either cut it or you can't. No wiggle room there whatsoever in a combat situation.

So, AGAIN, this was not about DEI!

 

[Lightning8]

"And by the way, there's is no taking a knee to DEI in Army aviation." Every facet of the US military has been "taking a knee to DEI". Driving ships, driving tanks, driving airplanes - all of it. Last 4 years, every major command was led by a "DEI hire". Every promotion event as a "first" - first something besides a white male - that was all that mattered. We all saw it happening.

 

[JAS-SH]

"And by the way, there's is no taking a knee to DEI in Army aviation." Every facet of the US military has been "taking a knee to DEI". Driving ships, driving tanks, driving airplanes - all of it. Last 4 years, every major command was led by a "DEI hire". Every promotion event as a "first" - first something besides a white male - that was all that mattered. We all saw it happening.

Please, please show me. I find that hard to believe but I could be convinced with real data, not hearsay.

 

[JAS-SH]

For all of you interested this is the full audio from the hour that night. The first indication of eminent impact is a woman's voice in a panic around the 17-minute mark.

That's not the interesting part for me. It's the TEMPO of the comms throughout the recording and how many transmissions are getting stepped on by others. Also, the mil helicopter was using different comms. The Controller could hear and talk to them them but one else could.

https://forums.liveatc.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=18169.0;attach=13017

 

[Lightning8]

Please, please show me. I find that hard to believe but I could be convinced with real data, not hearsay.

What was the last year you served in the US military?

 

[JAS-SH]

And to finalize my comments, here is a link to the full preliminary report:

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/DCA25MA108 Prelim.pdf

Most all aircraft mishaps are always preceded by a string of smaller events.....

 

[JAS-SH]

What was the last year you served in the US military?

Not convincing me here. please change my mind, pretty please? Have you ever flown an Aircraft at night over the Caribbean sea, no moon, pitch black for hours at 18,000 feet? Didn't think so. I did that back in 1978 or so.

 

[Lightning8]

Not convincing me here. please change my mind, pretty please? Have you ever flown an Aircraft at night over the Caribbean sea, no moon, pitch black for hours at 18,000 feet? Didn't think so. I did that back in 1978 or so.

You cannot use "data" to discuss DEI in US military if you have not served in the US military and specifically if you have not served in the last 10-20 years.

I was an Infantry guy - others drove the aircraft. 1978 was a different time and situation than 2020s.

 

[Holliday]

…… this was not about DEI!

Would she had been in that cockpit, piloting that aircraft, in that airspace, if NOT for DEI???

NO! Lying to yourself about that, does not make you enlightened, just a stubborn contrarian jackass.

SIMPs like you white knighting are killing this country. Being a jackhole may suit you - but it does nothing for the men, women and children who were butchered by this DEI.

What you fail to realize or even comprehend, is that this ruins things for woman and people of color who get there via sheer grit, skill and determination. Something that it is becoming abundantly clear that did not happen with little “miss shits butterflies and farts rainbows “.

If you really cared about woman in the cockpit, you call this for what it is and call for an end of the practices that put this moron in control of a military helicopter in one of the busiest airspaces in the country!!!

Jesus SIMPs like you suck so fucking bad.

 

[JAS-SH]

You cannot use "data" to discuss DEI in US military if you have not served in the US military and specifically if you have not served in the last 10-20 years.

I was an Infantry guy - others drove the aircraft. 1978 was a different time and situation than 2020s.

I'm going to do this one more time and that's it. This is not about the military, and this is not about DEI. This is an aircraft collision - period.

If you would take the time to read the NTSB preliminary report which I posted above you could deduce on your own that there were other more important issues.

1) The collision happened at ~500 feet.
2) The PIC in the helicopter reported passing 350 feet and descending. Think now here!
3) The PIC reported visual on the jet AND requested "visual separation". This is critical!
4) Why? Because the collision happened at 500 feet!! Why again?
5) Because the Controller approved visual separation, which means he was no longer required to give the helicopter separation guidance!
6) Separation guidance is the holy grail of flying in congested airspace.
7) Last but not least, the separation rules apply in all 3 dimensions, most importantly including altitude. Crossing aircraft, as in a collision avoidance must have at the very minimum 1000 feet of vertical separation, and in real life it's normally twice/three times that.
8) There's more, but I'm done here.

They don't teach all of this in the infantry, so you are forgiven.

 

[JAS-SH]

Would she had been in that cockpit, piloting that aircraft, in that airspace, if NOT for DEI???

NO! Lying to yourself about that, does not make you enlightened, just a stubborn contrarian jackass.

SIMPs like you white knighting are killing this country. Being a jackhole may suit you - but it does nothing for the men, women and children who were butchered by this DEI.

What you fail to realize or even comprehend, is that this ruins things for woman and people of color who get there via sheer grit, skill and determination. Something that it is becoming abundantly clear that did not happen with little “miss shits butterflies and farts rainbows “.

If you really cared about woman in the cockpit, you call this for what it is and call for an end of the practices that put this moron in control of a military helicopter in one of the busiest airspaces in the country!!!

Jesus SIMPs like you suck so fucking bad.

Time for you to eat some of your own shit boy:

Sally D. Murphy (born January 11, 1949)[1] is a retired colonel who served as a United States Army Aviator. She was the first female U.S. Army helicopter pilot to graduate from flight school at Fort Rucker, Alabama on June 4, 1974.[2] She served as a leader for units within the 330th Army Security Agency Company, 1st Infantry Division, the 62nd Aviation Company, and the 78th Aviation Battalion. In 2009, Murphy received the U.S. Army Freedom Team Salute Veteran Commendation to commemorate her 27 years of service and her place in military history.

19 fucking 74, so FUCK OFF!

 

[Emerson0311]

Time for you to eat some of your own shit boy:

Sally D. Murphy (born January 11, 1949)[1] is a retired colonel who served as a United States Army Aviator. She was the first female U.S. Army helicopter pilot to graduate from flight school at Fort Rucker, Alabama on June 4, 1974.[2] She served as a leader for units within the 330th Army Security Agency Company, 1st Infantry Division, the 62nd Aviation Company, and the 78th Aviation Battalion. In 2009, Murphy received the U.S. Army Freedom Team Salute Veteran Commendation to commemorate her 27 years of service and her place in military history.

19 fucking 74, so FUCK OFF!

So there was a competent female pilot 50 years ago? Jesus you are stupid.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

You should know better than to go all guns broadside without having the details. FIRST! I'm over 70, and don't give a rats ass about DEI.

Second, I was flying b4 most people in this forum were born so I know a thing or two on how that works. Third, the PIC is ALWAYS in charge. Two sets of full controls and displays. The PIC which had all the comms and situational awareness HAD to know they were 1) at the wrong altitude and 2) he called a visual separation (look THAT up.)

Personally, I thinks there is more to this. than a "DEI" recruit. And by the way, there's is no taking a knee to DEI in Army aviation. You can either cut it or you can't. No wiggle room there whatsoever in a combat situation.

So, AGAIN, this was not about DEI!

Being a former pilot as well, i see a problem in this aircraft. The PIC should have been the instructor. However the right seater (Pilot) our ranked the instructor by a good level, Captain (O-3) vs CWO. Knowing how some of these folks think, just because you are the student, your rank out ranks any decision or recommendations by “that warrant officer.” Arrogance.

True, I am making an assumption however, I am assuming the instructor was aboard that aircraft for a reason. As in instructing. One other caveat, I am speaking in general terms, not actually knowing the two individuals. I do know that there are actually some junior officers (mostly with XY chromosomes) who have a bit of humility and common sense about them. Don’t see this as much in women officers in the military. I could be wrong, but just my experience.

 

[vh20]

Time for you to eat some of your own shit boy:

Sally D. Murphy (born January 11, 1949)[1] is a retired colonel who served as a United States Army Aviator. She was the first female U.S. Army helicopter pilot to graduate from flight school at Fort Rucker, Alabama on June 4, 1974.[2] She served as a leader for units within the 330th Army Security Agency Company, 1st Infantry Division, the 62nd Aviation Company, and the 78th Aviation Battalion. In 2009, Murphy received the U.S. Army Freedom Team Salute Veteran Commendation to commemorate her 27 years of service and her place in military history.

19 fucking 74, so FUCK OFF!

What does that have to do with anything in this thread? No one has argued that women can't be competent pilots.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Being a former pilot as well, i see a problem in this aircraft. The PIC should have been the instructor. However the right seater (Pilot) our ranked the instructor by a good level, Captain (O-3) vs CWO. Knowing how some of these folks think, just because you are the student, your rank out ranks any decision or recommendations by “that warrant officer.” Arrogance.

True, I am making an assumption however, I am assuming the instructor was aboard that aircraft for a reason. As in instructing. One other caveat, I am speaking in general terms, not actually knowing the two individuals. I do know that there are actually some junior officers (mostly with XY chromosomes) who have a bit of humility and common sense about them. Don’t see this as much in women officers in the military. I could be wrong, but just my experience.

Was the captain on this flight being “instructed?” Or observed? My earlier understanding is that this was a “check flight” … basically a third party observation of the pilot in order to ensure she was following procedures and was goood to go for an annual recertification or whatever they have in Army Aviation?

Though I thought I read that “check flights” were called training missions. They aren’t so much about training as making sure the individual being “checked” passes all the criteria to maintain flight status.

In that situation, is the “observer”
(A CWO -2 is a grade below Captain but considered to have more specific technical knowledge and training) even supposed to take command? Issue orders? Tell the “pilot being checked”’what to do? Or was he an observer with a sheet checking boxes…. Pass/fail/whatever?

As for the pilot… the captain spent more time at White House banquets than commanding Blackhawks. She was not in DC for her pilot skills, but to polish her captains bars and to show WH visitors the pretty army lady with the aviator wings and how “inclusive” the U.S. Army has become under the drooling spud.

Did that kill dozens of American men, women and children? Would they have been alive today is the best pilot (not the best White House “Hostess”) had the collective? Well… guess we all have our opinions. Backed up by the floating bodies in the Potomac.

But still curious as to the role of the “check?” Was it indeed a check flight? Was train g supposed to happen? And does a CWO-2 sit down and shut up if a captain is about to augur an aircraft in?

Sirhr

PS. I know crap about Army aviation. But in the SF community, a lot of the A-Team XO’s are CWO’s. The captains who command A-Trams are typically there for one tour. They complete the Q-course and they get one shot at commanding an A-Team and then are promoted out. It is really rare to have a Captain there for long. The CWO’s are mostly former team sergeant’s and they are there for a career. Not up and out. They don’t out rank the captain. But they are experts in the day to day running of things. Just like the Senior sergeants. Is the same true in aviation? Again… curious. Should a captain be paying attention when the CWO has something to say? Regardless of rank or “hotshot” fast-track White House high profile assignment status?

 

[Lightning8]

 

[Lightning8]

Maybe military too?

 

[Holliday]

The SIMP mind cannot comprehend the sheer depths of how DEI has pervaded our culture, corporations and in particular our Government (and by extension our military). Their ego will not allow them to to come face to face with this reality.

The SIMP chooses to ignore the FACTS and rather instead intimates, ad nauseam, that folks seeing an issue with that, are simply bigots.

SIMP is the modern term for the leftist phrase often credited to Vladimir Lenin “Useful idiots”. They are the male “brown shirts” or “Antifa” of the 4th wave feminist movement. Feminist have convinced Simps that they are NOBLE while “White Knighting” whenever DEI is questioned or causation is established.

Here Tulsi describes her attempts to weed out DEI in her Department, root and stem. To the tune of $170 million so far, in just her department.

One must continue through the monetary assessments, further into the video. There she discusses how half of these government employees’ time was dominated by checking-off DEI boxes, so that they would be eligible for promotion. 50% of their fucking time.

SIMPs would do well to shut their fucking pie-holes because they are just digging their hole deeper….. Men, women and children were butchered here.

 

[Redmanss]

If she was such a good pilot who earned her bars and wings solely on merit, then why wasn’t she a good pilot?

If she was such an expert who was qualified to haul VIPs in the most crowded airspace in the country, then why did she fail four check flight prior to committing the ultimate failure on her fifth attempt?

If she saw something different that fateful night that indicated she was making the correct maneuvers, why didn’t the voice recorder or flight path indicate those moves?

If Big Green held firm to standards of training and performance instead of instituting a culture of coddling to maintain certain demographics, does that still allow four or more reattempts to pass a qualification before being grounded?

If this is the standard in a VIP squadron, just how bad does it get in the units hauling regular ass and trash without famous names or connections?

Just another former grunt and current parent of active duty children thinking from the back of the bird or “Do I want to read past that headline or wait for the knock at the door” perspective.

 

[Baron23]

why did she fail four check flight prior to committing the ultimate failure on her fifth attempt?

Do you happen to have a reference on this ^^? I searched online but couldn't find a source.

Thanks

 

[Redmanss]

Do you happen to have a reference on this ^^? I searched online but couldn't find a source.

Thanks

Admittedly I’m referencing the rumor mill on it, but where there’s smoke there’s usually fire.