OK guys I know this stuff may be a no brainer for you guys but I am kinda all over the place with respect to how I should have my bolt gun built. First of all I wanted it built on a long action so I could reload for it and be able to seat bullets out farther than a magazine box would limit me to. but at the same time I want to have a 10 rd magazine adapter for it. Or I want it to be able to accept 10 rd magazines is what I mean to say. I just received my donor rifle today which is a 30-06 - now I am wondering if I need to scrap that and go with a short action and have the smith modify for Alpha mags type 2 magazine which has a longer overall length. my gunsmith also Uses Badger ordinance which I know is top notch. but other than CDI I dont know of many other companies that make lower metal for trigger guards and magazine acceptors. Right now with the build the way I want it. I am looking at 2100. I know buy once cry once, but I would also like to have the build done quality but save a little money if possible cause I want to get really good glass as well. So my main concern is if I keep the Long action- is the a lower trigger guard/mag acceptor that would accept a long action magazine that can be modified to accept a 308 round? Also are all 20 MOA rails about the same or with the price difference are you really getting better metal and better product? thanks
Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
- Thread starter Manzgear
- Start date
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
Is this a .308 build?
If so, different magazines allow slightly longer seating depths.
Seating close to the lanads won't be an issue with an aftermarket barrel.
It is only an issue with factory barrels with long throats.
You can have a barrel chambered specifically for GMM loads if you wanted to.
That being said, If I were you, I'd look at an M24 STYLE build.
Check the M24 thread, they may have info on bottom metal for the LA. I know Hooper Ordnance makes bottom metal for the LA, give them a ring and see if the Aplha Mags will work. Good Luck.
http://www.hooperordnance.com/page2.aspx
Is this a .308 build?
If so, different magazines allow slightly longer seating depths.
Seating close to the lanads won't be an issue with an aftermarket barrel.
It is only an issue with factory barrels with long throats.
You can have a barrel chambered specifically for GMM loads if you wanted to.
That being said, If I were you, I'd look at an M24 STYLE build.
Check the M24 thread, they may have info on bottom metal for the LA. I know Hooper Ordnance makes bottom metal for the LA, give them a ring and see if the Aplha Mags will work. Good Luck.
http://www.hooperordnance.com/page2.aspx
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
fdkay thanks for the help. I have been looking things up with respect this subject but I am not getting much info, or perhaps I dont know all the custom shops that people here use. that is why I asked this question on the forum. thanks so much for your help. I will give them a call.
fdkay thanks for the help. I have been looking things up with respect this subject but I am not getting much info, or perhaps I dont know all the custom shops that people here use. that is why I asked this question on the forum. thanks so much for your help. I will give them a call.
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
Dont complicate the build worrying about seating depth. The .308 is capable of good performance at 2.8X" which an AICS mag will accomodate. Don't try and make it something it isnt. You are obviously a reloader so you may consider a 6.5 of some flavor, which will stomp any .308.
Pick your caliber and projectile, a stock that fits you, a reasonably weighted barrel of a standard length, and slap it together. You have lots of bottom metal choices, I prefer the standard AW/Badger M5 release types. Pretty much a rubber stamp rifle around this place.
If you haven't already, you may consider the for sale forum. Lots of proven stuff from proven smiths, for great prices.
Dont complicate the build worrying about seating depth. The .308 is capable of good performance at 2.8X" which an AICS mag will accomodate. Don't try and make it something it isnt. You are obviously a reloader so you may consider a 6.5 of some flavor, which will stomp any .308.
Pick your caliber and projectile, a stock that fits you, a reasonably weighted barrel of a standard length, and slap it together. You have lots of bottom metal choices, I prefer the standard AW/Badger M5 release types. Pretty much a rubber stamp rifle around this place.
If you haven't already, you may consider the for sale forum. Lots of proven stuff from proven smiths, for great prices.
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
I would just sell the action and get a custom action, you would save money in the long run. Lots of good custom actions. Also send it to a well known gunsmith you will find that the really good gunsmiths charge the same amount or a little more than your local guy. However, this will more than likely exceed your budget. If you are going to drop a couple of grand on a rifle you might as well do it not having any regrets. Also it would be a lot easier to sell it if it was a GAP with quality components, than say a rifle done by a local guy with a donor long action.
Another option could be to look for a custom built rifle in the classifieds that meet your criteria.
Lastly this is what I would do if I had a to work with your budget. It would be to get this https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411540368
drop some CDI bottom metal, bed it, get a 20 moa cant rail and You are done. Great stock, Great trigger, plus it comes with a threaded barrel which saves you some more money. I bet you could get it all and installed for less than 1600.
I would just sell the action and get a custom action, you would save money in the long run. Lots of good custom actions. Also send it to a well known gunsmith you will find that the really good gunsmiths charge the same amount or a little more than your local guy. However, this will more than likely exceed your budget. If you are going to drop a couple of grand on a rifle you might as well do it not having any regrets. Also it would be a lot easier to sell it if it was a GAP with quality components, than say a rifle done by a local guy with a donor long action.
Another option could be to look for a custom built rifle in the classifieds that meet your criteria.
Lastly this is what I would do if I had a to work with your budget. It would be to get this https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411540368
drop some CDI bottom metal, bed it, get a 20 moa cant rail and You are done. Great stock, Great trigger, plus it comes with a threaded barrel which saves you some more money. I bet you could get it all and installed for less than 1600.
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
I was recently toying with the idea of having my action cut to accept AW-type mags. That's what the Alpha type 2 are. I was told, and this may not be accurate, but I trust the source, that any bottom metal that accepts AICS mags will accept AW mags as well. The problem is that the Remington-type actions don't feed all that reliably from a dual-feed magazine. The magazine must present itself at just the right height or it won't feed.
The bottom line where we arrived after some discussion was that if I were going to just shoot for fun, it would be fine. But since I want to shoot tactical matches where seconds count, I want to stick to AICS mags. I've concluded that for me, there's really no advantage to using AW or AW-type mags.
I was recently toying with the idea of having my action cut to accept AW-type mags. That's what the Alpha type 2 are. I was told, and this may not be accurate, but I trust the source, that any bottom metal that accepts AICS mags will accept AW mags as well. The problem is that the Remington-type actions don't feed all that reliably from a dual-feed magazine. The magazine must present itself at just the right height or it won't feed.
The bottom line where we arrived after some discussion was that if I were going to just shoot for fun, it would be fine. But since I want to shoot tactical matches where seconds count, I want to stick to AICS mags. I've concluded that for me, there's really no advantage to using AW or AW-type mags.
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
I am sure GAP rifles are nice and the produce results and please dont take this the wrong way like I am dogging them. But the gunsmith that I will be working with is an armor for the marines. He also makes custom rifles and 1911 pistols. I would put one of his custom rifles against a GAP any day of the week. so for about $2100 that it may cost me. One I like supporting him as he is a friend of one of my friends who taught me everything I know about reloading. two the money I would have to put into buying and waiting for a GAP will also help pay for the glass I would put on this rifle. all that aside.
i really really appreciate you guys chiming in and giving me info on the magazines and bottom metal stuff. that is my real problem right now in figuring out how this build is going to work without making it too complicated for my gunsmith.
and btw the savage you linked is nice but not really what I want, but i know what you are saying. my friend who introduced me to this gunsmith has about 15 guns from this gunsmith. all are shooters. three of them will shoot one hole. So some people dream of GAPs I dream of a rifle built by Isaac McCaskill from Cassett Gun Works in Cassett SC.
I am sure GAP rifles are nice and the produce results and please dont take this the wrong way like I am dogging them. But the gunsmith that I will be working with is an armor for the marines. He also makes custom rifles and 1911 pistols. I would put one of his custom rifles against a GAP any day of the week. so for about $2100 that it may cost me. One I like supporting him as he is a friend of one of my friends who taught me everything I know about reloading. two the money I would have to put into buying and waiting for a GAP will also help pay for the glass I would put on this rifle. all that aside.
i really really appreciate you guys chiming in and giving me info on the magazines and bottom metal stuff. that is my real problem right now in figuring out how this build is going to work without making it too complicated for my gunsmith.
and btw the savage you linked is nice but not really what I want, but i know what you are saying. my friend who introduced me to this gunsmith has about 15 guns from this gunsmith. all are shooters. three of them will shoot one hole. So some people dream of GAPs I dream of a rifle built by Isaac McCaskill from Cassett Gun Works in Cassett SC.
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
i vote sell the long action and buy a sako trg 22, they have 2.95" magazines from the get go and about the same price as your build $2100+la($400roughly)= same price as new trg 22 from eurooptics.
don't get the wrong impression i love custom rifles but i love the simplicity of the trg and aiae/aw's. no bedding inletting just order new barrels when you need them.
i vote sell the long action and buy a sako trg 22, they have 2.95" magazines from the get go and about the same price as your build $2100+la($400roughly)= same price as new trg 22 from eurooptics.
don't get the wrong impression i love custom rifles but i love the simplicity of the trg and aiae/aw's. no bedding inletting just order new barrels when you need them.
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
OK I am going to look at the sako's - are they comparable to the Accuracy Internationals?
OK I am going to look at the sako's - are they comparable to the Accuracy Internationals?
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
looked at the sakos. they seem nice but I have been waiting to have my smith do this build for quite some time now. I dont think I could go in another direction. tomorrow will call the companies who make bottom metal and see if they can figure out my LA short Action cartridge dilemma.
looked at the sakos. they seem nice but I have been waiting to have my smith do this build for quite some time now. I dont think I could go in another direction. tomorrow will call the companies who make bottom metal and see if they can figure out my LA short Action cartridge dilemma.
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
If you are building a 308,260 or 6.5 and had the chance to switch to a short action I would. It is more ridged and if your smith was a mc smith he will be very familiar with a 700 sa. Also surgeon makes a bottom metal that accepts ai mags for a 700 sa.
As said before if you are having a new bbl cut then you can have the chamber cut for whatever oal load you want to run.
This would be my vote.
If you are building a 308,260 or 6.5 and had the chance to switch to a short action I would. It is more ridged and if your smith was a mc smith he will be very familiar with a 700 sa. Also surgeon makes a bottom metal that accepts ai mags for a 700 sa.
As said before if you are having a new bbl cut then you can have the chamber cut for whatever oal load you want to run.
This would be my vote.
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
It appears you have this pretty well thought out for what you want to accomplish. Stick with the LA, although it has potentially more flex, a good bedding job will support that. It will probably serve you better than modifying mags to fit the rounds you want to develop.
I use Badger and like them CDI has a good rep, but have not used them, and reliability is there for both. I prefer magazines with a metal follower. If you don't already have your stock, they can be ordered with the bottom metal of your choice already inletted.
Look at McRee Precision (http://mcreesprecision.net/mags.htm) for other mag option.
As for rails, 20MOA is the same regardless of mfg. Better metal is pretty subjective......It's different metal. 6061,7075 alloys, or steel...shop around for something that works for you
It appears you have this pretty well thought out for what you want to accomplish. Stick with the LA, although it has potentially more flex, a good bedding job will support that. It will probably serve you better than modifying mags to fit the rounds you want to develop.
I use Badger and like them CDI has a good rep, but have not used them, and reliability is there for both. I prefer magazines with a metal follower. If you don't already have your stock, they can be ordered with the bottom metal of your choice already inletted.
Look at McRee Precision (http://mcreesprecision.net/mags.htm) for other mag option.
As for rails, 20MOA is the same regardless of mfg. Better metal is pretty subjective......It's different metal. 6061,7075 alloys, or steel...shop around for something that works for you
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
bcpdshooter sounds like a good idea so I dont have to mess with having my smith do mods and other crap that will add to my bill. and a short action receiver will probably be tighter as well...
until you brought that up I had not thought about the engineering of the parts. but that makes a lot of sense. I have tons of brass and bullets for 308 and 30-06- so the build will be one or the other. but right now I just can't bring myself to go 30-06 yet. I love that caliber. I have several bolt action hunting rifles in 30-06 and I love them. but since I built my gas gun pictured I have been having a lot of fun with 308. as for 260 or 6.5 I know nothing about them.
bcpdshooter sounds like a good idea so I dont have to mess with having my smith do mods and other crap that will add to my bill. and a short action receiver will probably be tighter as well...
until you brought that up I had not thought about the engineering of the parts. but that makes a lot of sense. I have tons of brass and bullets for 308 and 30-06- so the build will be one or the other. but right now I just can't bring myself to go 30-06 yet. I love that caliber. I have several bolt action hunting rifles in 30-06 and I love them. but since I built my gas gun pictured I have been having a lot of fun with 308. as for 260 or 6.5 I know nothing about them.
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
Okay, you have opened up some options here.
1) I agree that a custom action is superior to a basic remington action
2) the notion that the cost for a custom action and a trued remington action is nearly the same is hogwash. (a) you already have the action, so that cost is zero (b) A remington ADL costs 350 bucks and to have it and the bolt trued is about 300 for a total cost of 650, not the 950 that a custom action costs
3) a trues remington action is capable of incredible accuracy (see tac-ops)
So, if you are open to other calibers or cartidges and since you already have a long action, my vote would go for a 6.5x55 it does EVERYTHING the .260 or 6.5 CM does but farther, faster and flatter. Loaded to modern pressures it will surpass the .300 WM and is stepping into 6.5x284 territory.
It is light recoiling, easy to shoot and you can reduce loads if you don't want to shoot any further than 1000 yards, this way you prolong barrel life.
Okay, you have opened up some options here.
1) I agree that a custom action is superior to a basic remington action
2) the notion that the cost for a custom action and a trued remington action is nearly the same is hogwash. (a) you already have the action, so that cost is zero (b) A remington ADL costs 350 bucks and to have it and the bolt trued is about 300 for a total cost of 650, not the 950 that a custom action costs
3) a trues remington action is capable of incredible accuracy (see tac-ops)
So, if you are open to other calibers or cartidges and since you already have a long action, my vote would go for a 6.5x55 it does EVERYTHING the .260 or 6.5 CM does but farther, faster and flatter. Loaded to modern pressures it will surpass the .300 WM and is stepping into 6.5x284 territory.
It is light recoiling, easy to shoot and you can reduce loads if you don't want to shoot any further than 1000 yards, this way you prolong barrel life.
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
6.5x55 is really a 1000 yard gun? I dont know much about that caliber, but I'll look it up. is brass readily available? its not such a oddball cartridge that is hard to find, is it? like I said before I have lots of 308 stuff and 30-06- and not that I am opposed to something new, but I will say I am hesitant. not cause I dont believe in the capability but cause I know nothing about it. I dont know if I stated before but this build is going to be a long range gun. not competition. just ringing plates as far as I am able to get access to a place to shoot that far.... How come I never see any custom made 30-06 bolt guns for sale here on the hide. I mean I am sure that there have been some. but does anybody have that caliber made into a long range tactical rifle like I am talking about? I see lots of 308's and 30-06 will tote the mail compared to 308 if we really get into the numbers....
6.5x55 is really a 1000 yard gun? I dont know much about that caliber, but I'll look it up. is brass readily available? its not such a oddball cartridge that is hard to find, is it? like I said before I have lots of 308 stuff and 30-06- and not that I am opposed to something new, but I will say I am hesitant. not cause I dont believe in the capability but cause I know nothing about it. I dont know if I stated before but this build is going to be a long range gun. not competition. just ringing plates as far as I am able to get access to a place to shoot that far.... How come I never see any custom made 30-06 bolt guns for sale here on the hide. I mean I am sure that there have been some. but does anybody have that caliber made into a long range tactical rifle like I am talking about? I see lots of 308's and 30-06 will tote the mail compared to 308 if we really get into the numbers....
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
6.5x55 has been around for about 120 years.
30'06 isn't a bad choice, but it is not the best case design.
They can be very accurate.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/02/cartridges-30-06-update.html
6.5x55 has been around for about 120 years.
30'06 isn't a bad choice, but it is not the best case design.
They can be very accurate.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/02/cartridges-30-06-update.html
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
lets so I go with the 30-06 and have the 300wm mags modified to accept the 06 bullets. and I want to shoot long range with it. just off the top of your head talking to anyone or fdkay, whats a good long range bullet for the 06 without giving up velocity? I know 30 cal is 30 cal- can I continue to use the sierra 175's that I have a lot of? would I be better off with a 200grain bullet?
lets so I go with the 30-06 and have the 300wm mags modified to accept the 06 bullets. and I want to shoot long range with it. just off the top of your head talking to anyone or fdkay, whats a good long range bullet for the 06 without giving up velocity? I know 30 cal is 30 cal- can I continue to use the sierra 175's that I have a lot of? would I be better off with a 200grain bullet?
Re: Planning a 308 build- need help with the parts..
ok 200gr and 210 as per the article... reading it now- thanks again
ok 200gr and 210 as per the article... reading it now- thanks again
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