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Please enjoy this war with Iran.

Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would not be surprrised to wake up any morning and hear exactly that. Or Pennsylvania Ave. </div></div>


Possessing and using nuclear weapons are two entirely different issues.

<span style="color: #CC0000">Iran is a rational actorn </span> , they know fully well what any use of nuclear weapons means to their survival.

Strategically it makes perfect sense for Iran to want nukes, and it's more than likely they already have them.

Of all the nations who possess nuclear weapons, how many have employed them?

Why aren't you losing sleep over the fear of Pakistan turning Time Square to rubble?

They're hardly "friends" and have a substantial nuclear arsenal.

</div></div>

A rational actor....really, I hadnt noticed. Some how threatening to destroy a country that has the capability to :glass you over" doesnt seem terribly rational to me...even as posturing. Didnt say I was loseing sleep over any of it. I purposely dont live near either DC or NYC. And I never said it might bot be one from the Pakis. Im sure they sell to the highest biddet like all good capitalists.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Iranians called it ‘moamara’: The Plot. Norman H. Schwartzkopf, father of the General made famous in the First Gulf War, was reportedly the emissary who persuaded the Shah to remain on the throne despite threats against him from forces loyal to Mossadeq. </div></div>

"emissary" is Persian for BAGMAN! (lol)

Schwartzkopf was slinking around in the dark with a suitcase filled with cash, staging the coup that took down Mossadeq!

Graham, other than a few word choices, I'd say your recollection of Iranian history off the top of your head is pretty good.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A rational actor....really, I hadnt noticed.</div></div>

Yes, Iran is rational, but don't take my word for it.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/in1oo8J1ihM"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/in1oo8J1ihM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A rational actor....really, I hadnt noticed.</div></div>

Yes, Iran is rational, but don't take my word for it.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/in1oo8J1ihM"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/in1oo8J1ihM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
</div></div>And when we want to know the truth about something here we should just ask the CIA because they are always honest and upfront also
crazy.gif
.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: klf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Listen up Maggott, after 9-11 every <span style="font-weight: bold">sand spook</span> over there was dancing and cheering in the streets. Except for Israel. They lowered their flags and voiced their full support for the USA. I hope those Jew bastards nuke every last Palestinian, Arab, Iranian, and if they have any left don't forget Afghanistan and Iraq. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: klf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If we can't have a discussion without racist slurs, then we will have less members. </div></div>

I stand corrected. Please replace slurs with "those who would kill your family and way of life for not agreeing with their religion" and "the only ally in the region". </div></div>

I'll give you credit where it's due, klf.

You have an impressive wheelbarrow there, yes, you do.

 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

Iran had a failed revolution awhile back where the population attempted to rise up against their government. Many Iranians paid a terrible price for this and unlike Egypt and Libya the USA didn't lift a finger to help. I find it odd that we are so eager to help with revolutions in countries that are at peace with Israel, but we do nothing when the opportunity arises to help the people overthrow government that is openly hostile to Israel. Now many innocent Iranians with suffer in order to remove this threat, but it still has to be done.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Iranian people have allowed fanatics to stay in charge for a very long time so they will eventually get it also . You reap what you sow.</div></div>

The <span style="font-weight: bold">US</span> people have allowed fanatics to stay in charge for a very long time so they will eventually get it also . You reap what you sow.

There fixed it for ya....
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Iranian people have allowed fanatics to stay in charge for a very long time so they will eventually get it also . You reap what you sow.</div></div>

The <span style="font-weight: bold">US</span> people have allowed fanatics to stay in charge for a very long time so they will eventually get it also . You reap what you sow.

There fixed it for ya....


</div></div>Why are you blaming Country for who's in charge in the US? He's from Australia. That's like me blaming you for Dracula.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Iranian people have allowed fanatics to stay in charge for a very long time so they will eventually get it also . You reap what you sow.</div></div>

The <span style="font-weight: bold">US</span> people have allowed fanatics to stay in charge for a very long time so they will eventually get it also . You reap what you sow.

There fixed it for ya....


</div></div>Why are you blaming Country for who's in charge in the US? He's from Australia. That's like me blaming you for Dracula. </div></div>

laugh.gif
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When will you assholes realize Iran is a repressed country and not a nation with a homogenous will and viewpoint? </div></div>

Bravo!!! </div></div>

Insipid!!!

And irrelevant. How pretentious of both of you to assume that everyone here believes that Iran is homogeneous (Homogenous refers to biological processes such as for dairy products. http://grammarist.com/usage/homogenous-homogeneous/)

While the mutual admiration is touching, perhaps a constructive suggestion regarding how to de-escalate the seeming inevitable war between ourselves and Iran might be in order. Without sacrificing an ally.

And perhaps a little less invective regarding our supposed ignorance of the history of our involvement in Iran, Iran's history and the assumption of our choices for news might make you come off as something less than psuedo-intellectual.

Seriously, I've had my fill with the type having watched a few hundred (They claimed to be in the thousands...)left wing-anarchist-marxist-know-it-alls in our town for the last couple weeks trying to sabotage the RNC.

They failed miserably!
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A rational actor....really, I hadnt noticed.</div></div>

Yes, Iran is rational, but don't take my word for it.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/in1oo8J1ihM"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/in1oo8J1ihM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
</div></div>And when we want to know the truth about something here we should just ask the CIA because they are always honest and upfront also
crazy.gif
. </div></div>

Or Moussad. Yes Id trust them with MY security.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A rational actor....really, I hadnt noticed.</div></div>

Yes, Iran is rational, but don't take my word for it.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/in1oo8J1ihM"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/in1oo8J1ihM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
</div></div>And when we want to know the truth about something here we should just ask the CIA because they are always honest and upfront also
crazy.gif
. </div></div>

Or Moussad. Yes Id trust them with MY security. </div></div>That's my point. Disinformation is part of national defense so I would take anything that the CIA or Moussad says with a grain of salt(whatever that means). If it helps them to lie then they will lie. If it helps them to tell the truth then they will tell the truth. In other words listening to their opinions in an interview is pointless.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How pretentious of both of you to assume that everyone here believes that Iran is homogeneous (Homogenous refers to biological processes such as for dairy products. http://grammarist.com/usage/homogenous-homogeneous/) </div></div>

queequeg, a spelling error is apparently all you can hang your hat on.

Thanks for the non-sequitur about the RNC, glad you enjoyed your weekend.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A rational actor....really, I hadnt noticed.</div></div>
Yes, Iran is rational, but don't take my word for it.</div></div>Rational in the Middle East and rational in the western world are two different standards. Dagan knows it; and he admits it.

Now if he could just find that phone he left in his car.
laugh.gif
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

Who would've thought a thread covering the relations of Iran and Israel would include an in depth study of the Polio vaccine and a brief interlude involving moon landings?
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NorthernBorn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who would've thought a thread covering the relations of Iran and Israel would include an in depth study of the Polio vaccine and a brief interlude involving moon landings?

</div></div>

Is it to late to include the 9/11 inside jobbers. I'm pretty sure they did it to start a war with Iran or was it Iraq or was it Israel. Or was that the fake moon landings. I'm so confused.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: klf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NorthernBorn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who would've thought a thread covering the relations of Iran and Israel would include an in depth study of the Polio vaccine and a brief interlude involving moon landings?

</div></div>

Is it to late to include the 9/11 inside jobbers. I'm pretty sure they did it to start a war with Iran or was it Iraq or was it Israel. Or was that the fake moon landings. I'm so confused. </div></div>

Don't worry. The aliens monitoring this thread are also quite confused.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NorthernBorn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who would've thought a thread covering the relations of Iran and Israel would include an in depth study of the Polio vaccine and a brief interlude involving moon landings? </div></div>

Pay attention, we never landed on the moon.

NASA learned it was populated with Bigfoot's ancestors, thus the cover story.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Iran had a failed revolution awhile back where the population attempted to rise up against their government. Many Iranians paid a terrible price for this and unlike Egypt and Libya the USA didn't lift a finger to help. I find it odd that we are so eager to help with revolutions in countries that are at peace with Israel, but we do nothing when the opportunity arises to help the people overthrow government that is openly hostile to Israel. Now many innocent Iranians with suffer in order to remove this threat, but it still has to be done. </div></div>

This is the problem. When you think like this you get planes flown into your buildings and your country becomes a prison camp in the name of protecting the flock. Let em sort it out for themselves. Stay out of it. If their flock won't stand and fight and die for what they believe, then so be it. Israel says they wanna fight and die, let em. Good for them. I wish them well. This is a great example of how tyranny works. The flock gets to fight the tyrant with rocks and sticks when they've had enough, or they get to be ruled. Bunch of those countries need to be ruled because the flock is so infected it can't survive without a tyrant. When you think we need to make ourselves judge jury and exuctioner for every conflict in the world, you get to read about Iraqi zealots turning the weapons we provide them on our soldiers that are training them for our retarded solution to our perception of their problem.

Thinking like this also guarantees you're at war every decade or so and get to spend billions of dollars a day. That seems to be a good thing for alot of people. Pathetic. Stop bankrupting this country and it's citizens for your retarded notion that what you think is right should be worldwide policy.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NorthernBorn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who would've thought a thread covering the relations of Iran and Israel would include an in depth study of the Polio vaccine and a brief interlude involving moon landings? </div></div>

Pay attention, we never landed on the moon.

NASA learned it was populated with Bigfoot's ancestors, thus the cover story. </div></div>

Wookies? Well shit.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NorthernBorn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: klf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NorthernBorn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who would've thought a thread covering the relations of Iran and Israel would include an in depth study of the Polio vaccine and a brief interlude involving moon landings?

</div></div>

Is it to late to include the 9/11 inside jobbers. I'm pretty sure they did it to start a war with Iran or was it Iraq or was it Israel. Or was that the fake moon landings. I'm so confused. </div></div>

Don't worry. The aliens monitoring this thread are also quite confused. </div></div>

You just had to play the alien card didn't you. You know if they saw off their antenna they can vote and get benefits.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Immorteq</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thinking like this also guarantees you're at war every decade or so and get to spend billions of dollars a day. That seems to be a good thing for alot of people. Pathetic. Stop bankrupting this country and it's citizens for your retarded notion that what you think is right should be worldwide policy. </div></div>

BINGO!!
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How pretentious of both of you to assume that everyone here believes that Iran is homogeneous (Homogenous refers to biological processes such as for dairy products. http://grammarist.com/usage/homogenous-homogeneous/) </div></div>

queequeg, a spelling error is apparently all you can hang your hat on.

Thanks for the non-sequitur about the RNC, glad you enjoyed your weekend.
</div></div>

The spelling error was a minor point: Your assumption that everyone else is ignorant of Iran's history, our involvement in it, their demographics and the repression of them was the point. That you chose to ignore it to focus on my gentle grammatical nudge is revealing.

It seems no one can disagree with you without being stupid, or possessing ill motivation. This reveals a potential character flaw you seem unwilling to examine.

May I suggest a good cigar, a beverage of comfort and some reflection?
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Immorteq</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Iran had a failed revolution awhile back where the population attempted to rise up against their government. Many Iranians paid a terrible price for this and unlike Egypt and Libya the USA didn't lift a finger to help. I find it odd that we are so eager to help with revolutions in countries that are at peace with Israel, but we do nothing when the opportunity arises to help the people overthrow government that is openly hostile to Israel. Now many innocent Iranians with suffer in order to remove this threat, but it still has to be done. </div></div>

This is the problem. When you think like this you get planes flown into your buildings and your country becomes a prison camp in the name of protecting the flock. Let em sort it out for themselves. Stay out of it. If their flock won't stand and fight and die for what they believe, then so be it. Israel says they wanna fight and die, let em. Good for them. I wish them well. This is a great example of how tyranny works. The flock gets to fight the tyrant with rocks and sticks when they've had enough, or they get to be ruled. Bunch of those countries need to be ruled because the flock is so infected it can't survive without a tyrant. When you think we need to make ourselves judge jury and exuctioner for every conflict in the world, you get to read about Iraqi zealots turning the weapons we provide them on our soldiers that are training them for our retarded solution to our perception of their problem.

Thinking like this also guarantees you're at war every decade or so and get to spend billions of dollars a day. That seems to be a good thing for alot of people. Pathetic. Stop bankrupting this country and it's citizens for your retarded notion that what you think is right should be worldwide policy. </div></div>

I agree totally with them cleaning up their own mess. However sometimes we need to intervene on our own behalf. I agree that the policy of nation building is a foolish one. Democracy won't fly over there. We should have kicked Iraq's ass and let them pick up their own pieces with a promise to return if they didn't behave. Iran might have payed a little closer attention. Now we face the threat of a nuclear Iran. You think mushrooms over New York cant happen. I didn't either back on September 10, 2001.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Immorteq</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is the problem. When you think like this you get planes flown into your buildings and your country becomes a prison camp in the name of protecting the flock. Let em sort it out for themselves. Stay out of it. If their flock won't stand and fight and die for what they believe, then so be it. Israel says they wanna fight and die, let em. Good for them. I wish them well. This is a great example of how tyranny works. The flock gets to fight the tyrant with rocks and sticks when they've had enough, or they get to be ruled. Bunch of those countries need to be ruled because the flock is so infected it can't survive without a tyrant. When you think we need to make ourselves judge jury and exuctioner for every conflict in the world, you get to read about Iraqi zealots turning the weapons we provide them on our soldiers that are training them for our retarded solution to our perception of their problem.

Thinking like this also guarantees you're at war every decade or so and get to spend billions of dollars a day. That seems to be a good thing for alot of people. Pathetic. Stop bankrupting this country and it's citizens for your retarded notion that what you think is right should be worldwide policy. </div></div>

^^ Nailed it!
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Immorteq</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thinking like this also guarantees you're at war every decade or so and get to spend billions of dollars a day. That seems to be a good thing for <span style="color: #CC0000">a few </span> people. Pathetic. Stop bankrupting this country and it's citizens for your retarded notion that what you think is right should be worldwide policy. </div></div>

BINGO!! </div></div>

Arms merchants, inside traders, Haliburton. The rest of us get to foot the bill which makes a VERY few, astronomically wealthy, and robs the rest, of our best and brightest.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems no one can disagree with you without being stupid, or possessing ill motivation. </div></div>

queequeg, I apologize for a harsh delivery, it's not my best trait.

I'm as imperfect as others and will readily admit it.

Lacking all the facts doesn't make you stupid or make your motivations suspect, it just means you're misinformed.

I'll take your advice on the cocktail and stogie, on that we're in 100% agreement!
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VYD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This arrogant brat Israel is up for a surprise... </div></div>

Just like the last every other time some one fucked with them?

And I believe the saying in "in for a surprise" </div></div>

The Israelis do tend to win their wars. One has to respect their prowess in accomplishing their mission.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

Guy Montag,

And I would counter that my ethnic background might surprise you and give rise to further self reflection.

That Iran's Shia and the Syrian Alowites (Also Shiites but of Arab origin) have been more tolerant to my family's demographic (Christian Lebanese and Armenian) than the various sects of Sunnis, we are still mindful of our long history in the region. Going back several millenia!

To suggest that because I fail to agree with you; that I am insufficiently informed of the subject at hand, is presumptuous. While there is always more to learn, I have been more than a casual student of the region for a very long time.

While I grew up desiring vengeance for the torment my grandparents and their kin endured in the Armenian genocide, (and several pogroms throughout the ages) I have studied and learned much.

I no longer want to kill Turks, Kurds and Syrians and I have not for a very long time. I came to understand that wretchedness spawns contempt for anyone who can be demonstrated to be "Doing better than" the majority. And I recognize that none of the people who robbed, dispossessed, exiled, murdered, raped or tortured my family members and kin are alive today. Sadly, the blood feud is long and it takes a good deal of discipline to move past.

Why do I point this out? Because we are well past dwelling on the motivations for why Iran is developing nukes. They are doing it and it is intolerable given the leadership of that nation. One may ask, "What of North Korea? Why aren't we bombing them?"

China. That's all. North Korea is effectively China. And then there is Pakistan...Different circumstances, different problems.

So, to close, Iranian people aren't anymore inherently evil than Floridians. They are however captives to a vicious regime and will serve that regime by way of the coercion inherent to police states. Thus, regardless of the grand strategic errors, clusterfucks or successes that derived this present quandary, Iran's possession of nuclear weapons is markedly more likely to take nuclear brinksmanship to the third dimension.

Hence, Israel and the U.S. must plan seriously for far more than amazingly sophisticated computer viruses or divine intervention.




 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guy Montag,

And I would counter that my ethnic background might surprise you and give rise to further self reflection.

That Iran's Shia and the Syrian Alowites (Also Shiites but of Arab origin) have been more tolerant to my family's demographic (Christian Lebanese and Armenian) than the various sects of Sunnis, we are still mindful of our long history in the region. Going back several millenia!

To suggest that because I fail to agree with you; that I am insufficiently informed of the subject at hand, is presumptuous. While there is always more to learn, I have been more than a casual student of the region for a very long time.

While I grew up desiring vengeance for the torment my grandparents and their kin endured in the Armenian genocide, (and several pogroms throughout the ages) I have studied and learned much.

I no longer want to kill Turks, Kurds and Syrians and I have not for a very long time. I came to understand that wretchedness spawns contempt for anyone who can be demonstrated to be "Doing better than" the majority. And I recognize that none of the people who robbed, dispossessed, exiled, murdered, raped or tortured my family members and kin are alive today. Sadly, the blood feud is long and it takes a good deal of discipline to move past.

Why do I point this out? Because we are well past dwelling on the motivations for why Iran is developing nukes. They are doing it and it is intolerable given the leadership of that nation. One may ask, "What of North Korea? Why aren't we bombing them?"

China. That's all. North Korea is effectively China. And then there is Pakistan...Different circumstances, different problems.

So, to close, Iranian people aren't anymore inherently evil than Floridians. They are however captives to a vicious regime and will serve that regime by way of the coercion inherent to police states. Thus, regardless of the grand strategic errors, clusterfucks or successes that derived this present quandary, Iran's possession of nuclear weapons is markedly more likely to take nuclear brinksmanship to the third dimension.

Hence, Israel and the <span style="color: #CC0000">U.S. </span> must plan seriously for far more than amazingly sophisticated computer viruses or divine intervention.




</div></div>

As you said to me some thread ago, leave ME out or US, please. I want no part of their douchebag brinkmanship. Let them destry each other. Mabey gas prices will go down.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maggot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guy Montag,

And I would counter that my ethnic background might surprise you and give rise to further self reflection.

That Iran's Shia and the Syrian Alowites (Also Shiites but of Arab origin) have been more tolerant to my family's demographic (Christian Lebanese and Armenian) than the various sects of Sunnis, we are still mindful of our long history in the region. Going back several millenia!

To suggest that because I fail to agree with you; that I am insufficiently informed of the subject at hand, is presumptuous. While there is always more to learn, I have been more than a casual student of the region for a very long time.

While I grew up desiring vengeance for the torment my grandparents and their kin endured in the Armenian genocide, (and several pogroms throughout the ages) I have studied and learned much.

I no longer want to kill Turks, Kurds and Syrians and I have not for a very long time. I came to understand that wretchedness spawns contempt for anyone who can be demonstrated to be "Doing better than" the majority. And I recognize that none of the people who robbed, dispossessed, exiled, murdered, raped or tortured my family members and kin are alive today. Sadly, the blood feud is long and it takes a good deal of discipline to move past.

Why do I point this out? Because we are well past dwelling on the motivations for why Iran is developing nukes. They are doing it and it is intolerable given the leadership of that nation. One may ask, "What of North Korea? Why aren't we bombing them?"

China. That's all. North Korea is effectively China. And then there is Pakistan...Different circumstances, different problems.

So, to close, Iranian people aren't anymore inherently evil than Floridians. They are however captives to a vicious regime and will serve that regime by way of the coercion inherent to police states. Thus, regardless of the grand strategic errors, clusterfucks or successes that derived this present quandary, Iran's possession of nuclear weapons is markedly more likely to take nuclear brinksmanship to the third dimension.

Hence, Israel and the <span style="color: #CC0000">U.S. </span> must plan seriously for far more than amazingly sophisticated computer viruses or divine intervention.




</div></div>

As you said to me some thread ago, leave ME out or US, please. I want no part of their douchebag brinkmanship. Let them destry each other. Mabey gas prices will go down. </div></div>

I am a carpenter in Tampa. No one is listening to me. I speak for no one but my self.

I would however like to live long enough to see grand children and not so poor a carpenter, chess player or golfer to understand that there are many tools, pieces or clubs available to solve a problem.

I pray that nothing is being left off the table as there is far more at stake waaaaaaaaaaaay over here than the price of gasoline.

I do feel it is childish to believe that a nuclear conflagration between Iran and Israel will not be isolated to the region and only one of the two nations has anything resembling accountability to the world for its actions.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

queequeg, I've several good friends from the Armenian community and know exactly what atrocities were committed, it's truly horrific.

I've family in Israel who aren't so glib about nuking Iran, that's why I take exception to this childish sabre rattling.

You're stretching to create a SPECIAL set of rules for Iran having nukes, denying the realities of the nuclear club.

Iran likely already has a nuke, so you'd better get used to the idea of them being part of the nuclear club.

If you're looking for a sure way to unite the entire Arab/Persian world against the US, by all means go to war with Iran.

Your blanket statement about Iran developing nukes as "intolerable" underscores how emotion has clouded your judgment.

This Iranian bogeyman nonsense allows you to run solely on fear, I won't do the same.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">queequeg, I've several good friends from the Armenian community and know exactly what atrocities were committed, it's truly horrific.

I've family in Israel who aren't so glib about nuking Iran, that's why I take exception to this childish sabre rattling.

You're stretching to create a SPECIAL set of rules for Iran having nukes, denying the realities of the nuclear club.

Iran likely already has a nuke, so you'd better get used to the idea of them being part of the nuclear club.

If you're looking for a sure way to unite the entire Arab/Persian world against the US, by all means go to war with Iran.

Your blanket statement about Iran developing nukes as "intolerable" underscores how emotion has clouded your judgment.

This Iranian bogeyman nonsense allows you to run solely on fear, I won't do the same. </div></div>

Oy...

I don't say I want Iran nuked. I want them neutralized. They are a major threat.

Intolerable is neither emotional nor irrational: it is the applicable posture given the regime that rules Iran and the open intentions articulated by them.

And I too have family in Israel. In Iran as well I'm told.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I don't say I want Iran nuked. I want them neutralized. They are a major threat.

Intolerable is neither emotional nor irrational: it is the applicable posture given the regime that rules Iran and the open intentions articulated by them.

</div></div>

How do you neutralize them? Is Iran a direct threat to the US? Israel's definition of neutralized seems to be "we're gonna gonna go to war and kill em all in a month". What's wrong with letting them solve the problem themselves? How are other first world countries worse off for not fighting and dying beside Israel? I absolutely support Israel's position. If my neighbor threatened to kill me because the tooth fairy told him to, I'd shoot him too. I wouldn't complain to my other neighbor and ask him to risk his life to do what I'm unwilling to do myself.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't say I want Iran nuked. I want them neutralized. They are a major threat.</div></div>

"neutralize" is a gentle euphemism for GO TO WAR.

What "threat" does Iran pose to the United States?
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

Neutralize would mean destroying the nuclear facilities, eliminating the radical muslim doomsday cult government and very quickly turn power over to the people of Iran.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4276276,00.html


Iran must steer clear of US interests in Gulf'
Washington reportedly sends Tehran indirect message saying it will not back Israeli strike on nuclear facilities as long as Iran refrains from attacking American facilities in Persian Gulf.

The United States has indirectly informed Iran, via two European nations, that it would not back an Israeli strike against the country's nuclear facilities, as long as Tehran refrains from attacking American interests in the Persian Gulf, Yedioth Ahronoth reported Monday.

According to the report, Washington used covert back-channels in Europe to clarify that the US does not intend to back Israel in a strike that may spark a regional conflict.

n return, Washington reportedly expects Iran to steer clear of strategic American assets in the Persian Gulf, such as military bases and aircraft carriers.

Israeli officials reported an unprecedented low in the two nations' defense ties, which stems from the Obama administration's desire to warn Israel against mounting an uncoordinated attack on Iran.

The New York Times reported Monday that US President Barack Obama is promoting a series of steps meant to curb an Israeli offensive against Iran, while forcing the Islamic Republic to take the nuclear negotiations more seriously.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't say I want Iran nuked. I want them neutralized. They are a major threat.</div></div>

"neutralize" is a gentle euphemism for GO TO WAR.

What "threat" does Iran pose to the United States? </div></div>

Yet more assumption...And what happens when one uses assumptions? You make an Ass out of U and mption...

And of course Iran poses no threat to the U.S. Whatever was I thinking?
crazy.gif
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't say I want Iran nuked. I want them neutralized. They are a major threat.</div></div>

"neutralize" is a gentle euphemism for GO TO WAR.

What "threat" does Iran pose to the United States? </div></div>

Yet more assumption...And what happens when one uses assumptions? You make an Ass out of U and mption...

And of course Iran poses no threat to the U.S. Whatever was I thinking?
crazy.gif
</div></div>


I'd suggest a better attempt at distraction, you failed miserably with that offering.

I'll ask the question AGAIN:

What "threat" does Iran pose to the United States?

Define "neutralize", and what that means in your world.

When you're able to muster an answer to ANY of the questions posed, perhaps then we can move forward.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

This thread has reached the point where it needs to be "neutralized".
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

The Iranian regime does pose a real and significant threat to the USA, of this I am certain. However, the fantasy that this threat is via a nuclear strike or even a 'dirty' bomb is gullible and ill-informed.

Iran engages the US via indirect means - arming insurgents in Iraq, the Taliban in Afghanistan etc. It, via Syria, supports, trains and funds Hezbollah and other terrorist groups. It has fostered cells in South and Central America and has cells in Europe (East and West) and I'd imagine a few here in the US. These cells are part of it's shadow inventory of retaliatory means should there be a direct, overt attack from Israel and the US/Allies.

Should Assad fall in Syria then this would be the single biggest strike into the power base of the Iranian regime and would give the Revolutionary Guard generals some serious pause for thought about deposing the mullahs and changing Iran's diplomatic stance from one of extremism to co-operation with the West and the opening up of Iranian markets to the rest of the world.

I feel that this is the course of events with the big 'maybe' being one of the various cells going rogue and doing something that puts everyone into an intractable position. This 'maybe' might also be really bad if chemical weapons have been smuggled out of Syria and processed into any one of these cells - especially concerning would be possession by Hezbollah.

I find this thread highly illustrative of how much more distracting fantasy is from the humdrum of reality. You're all getting worked up over 'intolerable' for Iran to have a nuke but the single most bat-shit crazy country in the world already has nukes, overtly houses the Taliban, completely supported the growth and strengthening of Al-Qaida in Afghanistan before and leading up to 9/11, was home to the recently deceased Osama Bin Laden and as their piece d'resistance, spawned, protected and enabled the scientist who single-handedly had more to do with nuclear technology proliferation to other bat-shit crazy regimes in North Korea and Iran than anyone could imagine...

I wonder how many of our geopolitical geniuses can figure out which country this is and answer why there's no need to 'glass/neutralize/kick ass/ [insert redneck phrase du jour] them instead or at least, first...
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

First it must be aired and then repeated several times for some to pick it up....
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Iranian regime does pose a real and significant threat to the USA, of this I am certain. However, the fantasy that this threat is via a nuclear strike or even a 'dirty' bomb is gullible and ill-informed.

Iran engages the US via indirect means - arming insurgents in Iraq, the Taliban in Afghanistan etc. It, via Syria, supports, trains and funds Hezbollah and other terrorist groups. It has fostered cells in South and Central America and has cells in Europe (East and West) and I'd imagine a few here in the US. These cells are part of it's shadow inventory of retaliatory means should there be a direct, overt attack from Israel and the US/Allies.

Should Assad fall in Syria then this would be the single biggest strike into the power base of the Iranian regime and would give the Revolutionary Guard generals some serious pause for thought about deposing the mullahs and changing Iran's diplomatic stance from one of extremism to co-operation with the West and the opening up of Iranian markets to the rest of the world.

I feel that this is the course of events with the big 'maybe' being one of the various cells going rogue and doing something that puts everyone into an intractable position. This 'maybe' might also be really bad if chemical weapons have been smuggled out of Syria and processed into any one of these cells - especially concerning would be possession by Hezbollah.

I find this thread highly illustrative of how much more distracting fantasy is from the humdrum of reality. You're all getting worked up over 'intolerable' for Iran to have a nuke but the single most bat-shit crazy country in the world already has nukes, overtly houses the Taliban, completely supported the growth and strengthening of Al-Qaida in Afghanistan before and leading up to 9/11, was home to the recently deceased Osama Bin Laden and as their piece d'resistance, spawned, protected and enabled the scientist who single-handedly had more to do with nuclear technology proliferation to other bat-shit crazy regimes in North Korea and Iran than anyone could imagine...

I wonder how many of our geopolitical geniuses can figure out which country this is and answer why there's no need to 'glass/neutralize/kick ass/ [insert redneck phrase du jour] them instead or at least, first... </div></div>



Don't think for a second their assets and population centers haven't been targeted to the Nth degree. They developed their nuclear program to answer India's.

Iran would never attack the USA directly. They would merely hand it over to a 9-11 style group and deny involvement. The result would be the same. Mushrooms over New York.
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

"Banyan From Economist
Nuclear profusion
The build-up of nuclear arms in South Asia remains terrifying

Aug 25th 2012 | from the print edition

THE militant attack early on August 16th on the Minhas air-force base in Kamra, just 40km (25 miles) outside Pakistan’s capital, Islamabad, involved an intense gunfight but was beaten back without much difficulty. Yet probably not before it had rattled nerves in the White House. According to a new book (“Confront and Conceal”) by David Sanger of the New York Times, late last year Barack Obama told his staff that his “biggest single national-security concern” was that Pakistan might disintegrate and set off a scramble for its nuclear weapons.

Inevitably Pakistan denied that Minhas held any of its nuclear warheads, believed to number about 100. In any event the country’s security arrangements, it claims, are “perfect”. As for the fear of “disintegration”, officials are used to pooh-poohing the overheated fears of foreign doom-mongers. Even if bearded fanatics entered the presidential palace and proclaimed a new caliphate, they would dismiss it as a minor upset and offer a cup of tea.

Yet Mr Obama is right to worry that Pakistan’s warheads and fissile material could end up in the wrong hands. He should also fret about their future in the “right” hands. Fourteen years after India and Pakistan became declared nuclear powers, the world has become rather blasé about the risks of a subcontinental nuclear confrontation.

The history of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal gives at least three reasons for concern. First, no country has such an appalling record as a proliferator of nuclear know-how—and the proliferator-in-chief, A.Q. Khan, remains a national hero. Second, parts of the Pakistani establishment seem to sympathise with militant Islamist movements. It is hard to believe that no senior official or army officer was aware of the late Osama bin Laden’s comfortable sojourn in Abbottabad, a stone’s throw from an elite military academy. As Mr Sanger reported in an earlier book (“The Inheritance”), in August 2001 a nuclear scientist, Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood, met bin Laden. Mr Sanger quotes an American spook as saying that Mr Mahmood “was our ultimate nightmare. He had access to the entire Pakistani programme. He knew what he was doing. And he was completely out of his mind.”

Third is the risk of terrorists breaching Pakistan’s defences. Al-Qaeda and other militant groups are known to be desperate to get their hands on fissile material or an assembled warhead. As Pakistan is apparently increasing its arsenal as fast as it can and investing in smaller and more easily waylaid weapons, the risks are mounting. This was the fourth attack by extremist groups on Minhas alone. Five other sites linked to the nuclear programme have also been targets.

Pakistan is not at imminent risk of a fundamentalist takeover. But the long-term trends are in the wrong direction. That is why America has given it hundreds of millions of dollars to keep its nuclear weapons safe, even though their very existence is an affront to the non-proliferation doctrine. In an irony typical of the United States-Pakistan “alliance”, the chief threat Pakistan now perceives to its arsenal is from America itself. Just after the American raid on Abbottabad in 2011 that killed bin Laden, Pakistan stepped up efforts to secure its nuclear weapons, by dispersing bits of them around the country. One way it does this, apparently, is in unobtrusive civilian vans that can get stuck in traffic.

Perhaps even Pakistani generals accept that this is not an ideal disaster-avoidance plan. Fear of capture or pre-emptive destruction of their nuclear defences seems to be one reason why they are determined to develop a third leg, after air- and land-based delivery systems, to Pakistan’s nuclear “triad”: nuclear-armed ships and submarines. As Iskander Rehman of the Carnegie Endowment, a think-tank, observes in a recent paper*, Indo-Pakistani nuclear rivalry is drifting “from the dusty plains of the Punjab and Rajasthan into the world’s most congested shipping lanes.” “It is only a matter of time,” he argues, “before Pakistan formally brings nuclear weapons into its own fleet.”

Other reasons for expecting this include a perceived need to match India’s own development of sea-based systems, missiles and missile defences, and fear that a future government in Afghanistan might be hostile. Pakistan has always felt the need for “strategic depth” in any conflict with India. In the nuclear age this has meant the ability to scatter defences around its western neighbour. Unlike India, Pakistan has never adopted a “no-first-use” nuclear doctrine. Huge fans of their bombs, Pakistani strategists argue that deterrence works. They point to Pakistan’s incursion in Kargil in 1999 and repeated terrorist attacks since then blamed on Pakistan. None provoked full-scale war. Three wars were fought between 1947 and 1971. So this is progress, of a sort.

Hot finish?

Naval nuclearisation makes this analysis look recklessly complacent. India has been working on “Cold Start”, a plan for a blitzkrieg invasion of Pakistan that would not provoke nuclear war. India might think Pakistan is bluffing in its professed willingness to use tactical nuclear weapons against Indian ground troops on Pakistani soil. Weapons at sea could lower the threshold. Pakistan might be less loth to use battlefield nuclear weapons against an aircraft-carrier strike force than soldiers on its own soil.

As nukes move to sea, “dual-use” platforms that can be used for both conventional and nuclear weapons create an even more hazardous ambiguity than they do on land. What India sees as a prudent defensive response to China’s naval build-up might easily be taken by Pakistan as aggressive. A competitive arms race beckons—with the added twist that the navy, which would be in charge of seaborne nuclear weapons, is thought to be the branch of Pakistan’s armed forces most infiltrated by extremists."
http://www.economist.com/node/21560877

And for inquiring minds from the US Naval War College:
http://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment/187a9...aval-Nucleariza
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find this thread highly illustrative of how much more distracting fantasy is from the humdrum of reality. You're all getting worked up over 'intolerable' for Iran to have a nuke but the single most bat-shit crazy country in the world already has nukes, overtly houses the Taliban, completely supported the growth and strengthening of Al-Qaida in Afghanistan before and leading up to 9/11, was home to the recently deceased Osama Bin Laden and as their piece d'resistance, spawned, protected and enabled the scientist who single-handedly had more to do with nuclear technology proliferation to other bat-shit crazy regimes in North Korea and Iran than anyone could imagine...

I wonder how many of our geopolitical geniuses can figure out which country this is and answer why there's no need to 'glass/neutralize/kick ass/ [insert redneck phrase du jour] them instead or at least, first... </div></div>

"What is Pakistan, Alex?"

Edlq1.png
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't say I want Iran nuked. I want them neutralized. They are a major threat.</div></div>

"neutralize" is a gentle euphemism for GO TO WAR.

What "threat" does Iran pose to the United States? </div></div>

Yet more assumption...And what happens when one uses assumptions? You make an Ass out of U and mption...

And of course Iran poses no threat to the U.S. Whatever was I thinking?
crazy.gif
</div></div>


I'd suggest a better attempt at distraction, you failed miserably with that offering. <span style="color: #3366FF">Lack of a sense of humor too huh? I thought the "Mption" bit was very clever!</span>

I'll ask the question AGAIN: <span style="color: #3366FF">You're actually asking two questions but math seems as lost on you as logic, history, humor and basic humility.</span>

What "threat" does Iran pose to the United States? <span style="color: #3366FF">Threats? Dozens if one has the ability to think beyond their own litter box</span>

Define "neutralize", and what that means in your world. <span style="color: #3366FF">Neutralize-To render a threatening opponent harmless. Again, not a terribly taxing concept to define for people with more than three brain cells</span>

When you're able to muster an answer to ANY of the questions posed, perhaps then we can move forward. <span style="color: #3366FF">I'm light years ahead of you already sonny</span>

</div></div>
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Iranian regime does pose a real and significant threat to the USA, of this I am certain. However, the fantasy that this threat is via a nuclear strike or even a 'dirty' bomb is gullible and ill-informed.

Iran engages the US via indirect means - arming insurgents in Iraq, the Taliban in Afghanistan etc. It, via Syria, supports, trains and funds Hezbollah and other terrorist groups. It has fostered cells in South and Central America and has cells in Europe (East and West) and I'd imagine a few here in the US. These cells are part of it's shadow inventory of retaliatory means should there be a direct, overt attack from Israel and the US/Allies.

Should Assad fall in Syria then this would be the single biggest strike into the power base of the Iranian regime and would give the Revolutionary Guard generals some serious pause for thought about deposing the mullahs and changing Iran's diplomatic stance from one of extremism to co-operation with the West and the opening up of Iranian markets to the rest of the world.

I feel that this is the course of events with the big 'maybe' being one of the various cells going rogue and doing something that puts everyone into an intractable position. This 'maybe' might also be really bad if chemical weapons have been smuggled out of Syria and processed into any one of these cells - especially concerning would be possession by Hezbollah.

I find this thread highly illustrative of how much more distracting fantasy is from the humdrum of reality. You're all getting worked up over 'intolerable' for Iran to have a nuke but the single most bat-shit crazy country in the world already has nukes, overtly houses the Taliban, completely supported the growth and strengthening of Al-Qaida in Afghanistan before and leading up to 9/11, was home to the recently deceased Osama Bin Laden and as their piece d'resistance, spawned, protected and enabled the scientist who single-handedly had more to do with nuclear technology proliferation to other bat-shit crazy regimes in North Korea and Iran than anyone could imagine...

I wonder how many of our geopolitical geniuses can figure out which country this is and answer why there's no need to 'glass/neutralize/kick ass/ [insert redneck phrase du jour] them instead or at least, first... </div></div>

Uh...duh...becus pacistan alrady has a matoor progrim in plase and Irun don't yet? Culd dat be da raisin?

Are yoo sugjestin dat osama been ladin was in Pacistan? Wow!
dat chanjes everytin!
 
Re: Please enjoy this war with Iran.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Iranian regime does pose a real and significant threat to the USA, of this I am certain. However, the fantasy that this threat is via a nuclear strike or even a 'dirty' bomb is gullible and ill-informed.

Iran engages the US via indirect means - arming insurgents in Iraq, the Taliban in Afghanistan etc. It, via Syria, supports, trains and funds Hezbollah and other terrorist groups. It has fostered cells in South and Central America and has cells in Europe (East and West) and I'd imagine a few here in the US. These cells are part of it's shadow inventory of retaliatory means should there be a direct, overt attack from Israel and the US/Allies.

Should Assad fall in Syria then this would be the single biggest strike into the power base of the Iranian regime and would give the Revolutionary Guard generals some serious pause for thought about deposing the mullahs and changing Iran's diplomatic stance from one of extremism to co-operation with the West and the opening up of Iranian markets to the rest of the world.

I feel that this is the course of events with the big 'maybe' being one of the various cells going rogue and doing something that puts everyone into an intractable position. This 'maybe' might also be really bad if chemical weapons have been smuggled out of Syria and processed into any one of these cells - especially concerning would be possession by Hezbollah.

I find this thread highly illustrative of how much more distracting fantasy is from the humdrum of reality. You're all getting worked up over 'intolerable' for Iran to have a nuke but the single most bat-shit crazy country in the world already has nukes, overtly houses the Taliban, completely supported the growth and strengthening of Al-Qaida in Afghanistan before and leading up to 9/11, was home to the recently deceased Osama Bin Laden and as their piece d'resistance, spawned, protected and enabled the scientist who single-handedly had more to do with nuclear technology proliferation to other bat-shit crazy regimes in North Korea and Iran than anyone could imagine...

I wonder how many of our geopolitical geniuses can figure out which country this is and answer why there's no need to 'glass/neutralize/kick ass/ [insert redneck phrase du jour] them instead or at least, first... </div></div>

Uh...duh...becus pacistan alrady has a matoor progrim in plase and Irun don't yet? Culd dat be da raisin?

Are yoo sugjestin dat osama been ladin was in Pacistan? Wow!
dat chanjes everytin! </div></div>

Blessed are those whose diction is matched by their insight...

YOu suggest there's nothing to be done about Pakistan? C'est la vie? Right, in the meantime, let's open up yet another theatre of war, galvanize yet another tier of terrorists all because we're going to take seriously the posturing of a regime that has proven time and again it's far more interested in maintaining power at home than it is in wiping out Jews or spreading Islam. I mean, the last couple of wars have worked out so well, what could possibly go wrong...