Night Vision Plus and minus's on the ATN PS22 gen 2 or Armasight CO-MR Gen 2 and IR illuminator

[Jeff in TX]

I've moved from considering the pulsar N550/750 to considering either the ATN PS22 Gen 2 clip-on or Armasight CO-MR Gen 2+ SD Day/Night Vision Clip-On System on for night hog hunting. Pros and cons for either unit? Most of our shots are 80 to 100 yards with the max being around 175 yards. Not looking to spend a fortune on this so decided to go with Gen 2. Which infrared illuminators should I consider. I'm looking at the UNV 20IR long range LED infrared illuminator but want to make sure it's not over or under kill.

Thoughts on my choice or other recommendations on NV units or IR illuminator?

 

[wigwamitus]

Hum, for those ranges a PVS-14 with a uni-max IR laser might be an option. The extra flexibility of the PVS-14 seems more than worth the cost difference in my world.

PVS-14 - headmounted for navigation on foot.
PVS-14 - headmounted for navigation in buggy.
PVS-14 - headmounted with ir aiming laser.
PVS-14 - weapon mounted behind EoTech or equivalent.
PVS-14 - handheld monocular.

I have PS-22 g3a and it is good out to 500 yds on half moon night in front of 3.5x scope. Can crank up to 5x on the scope for 600 yds.

I have CO-LR g3p and it has much clearer picture.

==

But I can't tell you about g2 since my experience is with g3.

PVS-14 with uni-max ir laser, is a good combination for shorter ranges and PVS-14 is very flexible for other tasks. So I'd try to go that way somehow. There are some used ones out there, but looks like the price just went up $200 since the last time I looked.
Pre owned ITT PVS-14, NIGHT ENFORCER® NEPVS-14 PINNACLE®

There are some posts around here talking about 2g devices, so hunt those down if you aren't getting enough feedback about g2 and are set on g2. But for my money, I'd try to sqeeze my piggy bank a little harder and get a PVS-14. What rifle will you be using? PVS-14 (ITT) is probably best limited to 5.56.

==

As to illuminators, I haven't found too much use for them. They tend to reflect off vegetation and moisture thus reducing the range I can see. I'd say for the cases where I need something that helps, they don't help, they only help in cases were I don't need help. They might help you see eye shine, that is the use case for hunting. I have three, the brighest is the T20 for about $100, I think I'll get another of those.

 

[Delta4-3]

If you are looking for a clip on that is a gen 2, about the only one I would recommend is the Armasight CO-X gen 2 HD. It is a great optic for the money.

 

[Jeff in TX]

Hum, for those ranges a PVS-14 with a uni-max IR laser might be an option. The extra flexibility of the PVS-14 seems more than worth the cost difference in my world.

PVS-14 - headmounted for navigation on foot.
PVS-14 - headmounted for navigation in buggy.
PVS-14 - headmounted with ir aiming laser.
PVS-14 - weapon mounted behind EoTech or equivalent.
PVS-14 - handheld monocular.

I have PS-22 g3a and it is good out to 500 yds on half moon night in front of 3.5x scope. Can crank up to 5x on the scope for 600 yds.

I have CO-LR g3p and it has much clearer picture.

==

But I can't tell you about g2 since my experience is with g3.

PVS-14 with uni-max ir laser, is a good combination for shorter ranges and PVS-14 is very flexible for other tasks. So I'd try to go that way somehow. There are some used ones out there, but looks like the price just went up $200 since the last time I looked.
Pre owned ITT PVS-14, NIGHT ENFORCER® NEPVS-14 PINNACLE®

There are some posts around here talking about 2g devices, so hunt those down if you aren't getting enough feedback about g2 and are set on g2. But for my money, I'd try to sqeeze my piggy bank a little harder and get a PVS-14. What rifle will you be using? PVS-14 (ITT) is probably best limited to 5.56.

==

As to illuminators, I haven't found too much use for them. They tend to reflect off vegetation and moisture thus reducing the range I can see. I'd say for the cases where I need something that helps, they don't help, they only help in cases were I don't need help. They might help you see eye shine, that is the use case for hunting. I have three, the brighest is the T20 for about $100, I think I'll get another of those.

Thanks for the response and insight I found very informative. I'll be attaching the NV scope to my Tikka T3 .243 win with a Leupold 1-6 V6 scope. This is a light weight rig set up for hog hunting at night out at the ranch where we walk and setup between blinds throughout the night. For the past few years we've used a HogSniper red LED hunting lights attached to our scopes. They work great to about 300 yards. The problem is we've tried red, green and blue LED lights and all have spooked the hogs when you flip the switch on. The green was the worse (9 out 10 hunts) and the red light being the best. I'd say 1 out 4 hunts with the red light as soon as the light hits the hogs they're gone in a blink of an eye. I even have a variable beam with the same results.

This is why I've decided to go NV. Again my distances/budgets are as such that I don't need Gen 3 and Gen 2 will probably work very well. The problem I see trying to use the PVS-14 is using it or mounting it on my rifle scope. It attaches to the rear of the scope which renders the rifle almost unusable trying to get a cheek weld. If it mounted out over the objective lens of the scope that would be totally different and I'd spend the extra bucks on the used Gen 3.

Thoughts? And thanks for the info on the uni-max IR laser, good info to have.

 

[wigwamitus]

With the uni-max ir laser, you don't need to take the PVS-14 off your head. If the aiming laser is on the target and the aiming laser is zeroed at that range, then the bullet will go there also. No "scopes" needed. I've tried this technique out to 250yds, but not out to 300yds yet.

==

BTW, if you do go the gen2 clip-on way, with both ATN and Arm you will probably have 2 options to mount. Either use of a mounting ring on the front of the objective, or rail mount. I've tried both and I'm definitely in the rail mount club now.
I don't think these devices were really designed to mount on the scopes, even though they give you that option.
I've got 20 inch scope base rail replacements for both of my bolt guns, so I can mount cllip-ons, on the rail, in front of the scopes, thus avoiding the actual scope mount. Though I have the scope mounts and can use it if I have to.
I think the rear eye piece of the clip-on needs to be farther away from the forward lens of the day scope objective than you can manage with the ring mount approach. I'd say you want these lens to be 1 to 1.5 inches apart to allow proper focus and that is best done with a rail mount (I've heard this from about everyone I've asked, ATN, Morovision, Armasight and I've seen my results improve when I switched to rail mount). Of course, with the rail mount, you have to manage the verticle alignment, so you might have to replace your scope rings to raise up your scope to get the center line of the day scope near the center line of the clip on. The manuals say about 3mm is the max, but I've shot with it about at that with no issues. As long as you don't see shadows, you should be ok.

 

[Jeff in TX]

wigwamitus,

Many thanks for all your advice and input as it was very helpful!

 

[Delta4-3]

I have to agree also, only going to have one night vision unit, make it a monocular so you can helmet mount it, weapons mount it, use a magnifier, etc.

 

[icedragonmx]

Just a cheap way to mount the clip on NV to any 30mm scope would be to use two 30mm 1.1" QD rings two 1/2" risers and a 14" acc rail. The only weight that stays on the day scope is the two 1.1" QD rings and the rest is a eash thing to attach for the night time fun. Can have the scope closer to the barrel as well with the ATN stuff. Would a upgrade to a GEN 2+ be cheaper than the cost of a IR illum?

On a Savage ...

 

[wigwamitus]

Very cool mount!!!

==

Would the cost of PVS-14 "upgrade" to gen2 clip-on be less than cost of an powerful illuminator? I'd say no. If the illuminator is T20 the cost is about $100 ... if the illuminator is other equivalent, then cost can be up to $600 ... but flexibility of PVS-14 means you get "more for more". If that is absolutely not needed, then gen2 with T20 will probably do the job (hog hunting out to 300 yds, IIRC) on most nights.

==
So what device is that on the end of that rifle, is that an ATN/PS-28 ? Or other?

And what rifle is that? I'm always curious

 

[Jeff in TX]

Icedragonmx,

I like it! Very nice mounting system.

 

[GhostFace]

maybe I missed it but the pvs14 are limited to 5.56 if he is deciding to mount it on a rifle. If the OP has plans to mount it on a rifle larger than 5.56 then he should consider something else. Also alot of the PS22s had collimation issues, the later ones SEEM to be ok but I would not buy one unless I was able to play with it first.

 

[Mattitude]

Well I took the plunge and ordered a CO-MR (gen. 2+) so hopefully I'll get it by the end of next week and have a chance to play with it.

 

[GhostFace]

Good choice

 

[icedragonmx]

Thanks! The mount shown is just a cheaper way to set up a clipon NV on multiply scopes for very little $$. Mine is a ATN PS22-CGT Gen 2+ as restrictions would not allow for a Gen 3+P. I would just spend the cash on the best unit you could afford and then look for IR extras only if needed. I have a IR 3b laser illuminator that never gets used. The rifle shown is a Savage PC10 with a 20moa Farrell rail and .9" rings. Can't get any closer to the barrel than that...would suggest 1" high rings.