POF P415 Won't Zero Premier LT - Out of Spec Rail?

[JRM83]

I am hoping someone might have some insight as to what is going on here. I purchased one of the EuroOptic Premier Light Tactical 3-15 MOA scopes and wanted to give it some range time this morning so I mounted it on a POF P415 and headed to the range. I have almost no trigger time on the POF, the only rounds I have put through it were on an SWFA 20x I mounted just to check function and accuracy when I bought it last month. I had a hell of a time trying to zero the SWFA because I kept running out of elevation without coming close to zeroing. When I unmounted the scope I noticed I had been drunk when I mounted it and the rings were sitting on one of the set screws on the POF rail. I fixed that and then boresighted/zeroed at 100 without too much issue. Fast forward to this morning. I have the Premier mounted on the POF in Seekins rings and when I try to boresight at 50 I run out of elevation before getting sighted. This is after dialing two full revolutions on the optic. Just to make sure my boresighting skills aren't total crap I fire a few rounds at 50 and sure enough my POI is about 6" low. I can't bring it up since I am out of elevation. I triple check the rings, the lug on the rings, take everything apart, remount it, move the rings forward and back a few rail slots and I still can't boresight or zero without running out of elevation. I took the optic home, put it on my SSG 3000 and boresight using about 1 revolution (20 moa) on the optic.

Any idea what could be causing this? When I purchased the rifle I noticed the modular rail segments didn't fit flush with the monolithic top rail. I contacted POF and they sent me replacement rail sections which fit just as bad as the originals. I figured I wasn't going to run them anyway, so it didn't matter much. Could the rail on the POF be so far out of spec it is impossible to zero this optic? Am I doing something stupid (wouln't be the first time) with this optic - it is the first high-end scope I have ever owned. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[buks]

Seems like the rail may be out of spec.
Do the BUIS (if you have any) line up normal?
If everything is in spec. ....a solution may be to get a 20 MOA Uni-mount (not a cheap solution).

 

[shovelstrokeed]

You told us about the optic and the gun but you didn't mention the mount.
If you have a 20 moa mount on there backwards this could happen. I'm not familiar with the gun or the way it's rail is mounted. Is it symmetric in that it could be turned around? Might be a 20 moa rail.
I just went through the opposite on my mount of a Bushnell HDMR G2 on a Pierce action in an AI AX chassis. I purchased a 20 moa Spuhr mount and put it on the rail and hit the bottom of my zero stop and was still way out (high) on my bore sight.
Turns out the action had a 20 moa built into the rail. I was able to reset the zero stop and bring it in but it was a lot of clicks down from the middle of the adjustment to move to 40 moa lower.

 

[JRM83]

Can't believe I forgot to add the mount. It is mounted in a pair of Seekins 30mm 1.25" rings. There is 0 moa on the rail and 0 moa on the rings so I know that isn't the issue. I have used these rings before and never had any issues with them.

 

[shovelstrokeed]

Premier are good scopes by reputation. Is the elevator mechanism actually moving the cross hairs? Are they moving in the right direction? Cross hairs down = POI up. I know it sounds silly but.......
You can, with the use of gadgets called adjustable parallels and a micrometer measure the height of the scope tubes to the top of the rail and see if your scope is slanted up relative to the rail. The tools are not expensive and you can source them in a number of machine shop supplies. If the scope is parallel to the rail, then the rail is the issue. If the scope is not parallel to the rail, the rings, or their fit on the rail is the issue. Maybe the recoil lug is binding in the slot on the rail and not allowing the ring to seat flush with the top of the rail? Couple of licks with a file will fix that, probably easier to open the offending slot(s) in the rail. If the lug on the rail is too high, same couple of swipes with the file.

 

[sakobob]

Couple of licks with a file will fix that, probably easier to open the offending slot(s) in the rail. If the lug on the rail is too high, same couple of swipes with the file.

ya that will do wonders for the resale value?might want to rethink hacking on a 1800$+rifle. (insert facepalm here)

 

[adamwade]

Not sure if the rings are separate or not, but if they are try reversing the rings - move the front ring to the back. Sometimes there are small inconsistencies in manufacturing.

 

[shovelstrokeed]

ya that will do wonders for the resale value?might want to rethink hacking on a 1800$+rifle. (insert facepalm here)

May want to think about the parts. Rail is removable and costs about $30.00, in fact POF sent him another rail section.
Reading are hard.

 

[JRM83]

The issue with the rail was that the modular segments did not sit flush with the top railed portion of the handguard. They sent me replacement segments and the fit on those was just as poor as the original segments. This leads me to believe that the problem wasn't with the modular pieces, but with the top rail itself. The segments are cheap to replace, but the optic is mounted on the portion of the rail integral to the handguard. A replacement handguard is not cheap.

I will try reversing the rings, it shouldn't matter but it is worth a try. I should have another set laying around I can try as well. If that doesn't work I will probably just ring up POF and have them take a look.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions!

 

[RonboF117]

Maybe I misread or missed the explanation but if you have a 100 yard zero, do you think you really need to try to re-zero at 50 yards? If the 100 yard zero is solid and workable, maybe just use a hold-under for shots less than 100 yards.

 

[shovelstrokeed]

OK, I'm getting the picture a little better now. Rear ring of your mount is on the receiver section of the rail and the front ring is on a hand guard mounted section of rail, niche var?
Handguard mounted rail is not flush with the hand guard, correct?
I see two solutions, one is to send the dang gun back to POF and have them make it right. Two would be to get an offset mount that sets the scope forward on the mount and mount said mount entirely on the receiver section of rail. By mount I mean a one piece mount with rings integral with the mount and offsetting the scope to the front to gain eye box space.
Typical type would look like this. https://www.apexgunparts.com/images/AR15/AIM_Tactical_30mm_Cantilever_Scope_Mount.jpg

 

[BobinNC]

JRM83,

You gotten advise, some good, some not so good. If I understand your rifle, the POF P415 has a monolithic rail system. If so any issues about where the rings are placed, is a non-issue. Therefore, there are only two areas that you need to look at: the scope and the rail itself.

Scope:

The first question that comes to mind is: Do you know how to use this scope?? The PH LT does have a zero stop feature. I would tell you how it works if I could find the correct users manual on-line. Alas, the one listed on the PH website is for the larger PH scope and not the Light Tactical. To show you how much they value their website, an available option for the Light Tactical is 34mm Rings. Sort of on odd option for a 30mm scope....

In any event, you may not have run out of elevation, just merely hit the zero stops. If you don't know how the zero stop works on your scope, this could well be the problem.

Of course, you may know how to work the scope, and the scope is just FUBAR. But I would try to fiddle with the zero stops before announcing the scope is broken.

The only other area is the monolithic rib. if it is not level with the rifle, that could be causing your problem. I'm not ready to announce your new POF is a POS, before you eliminate any possible scope issues.

Switching the rings is a total waste of time and effort, as I doubt the problem lies there. In short, first check operator error in setting stops on the scope. Then explore if the scope is functioning at all. And lastly I would look at the rib itself on the rifle.

Best of luck..