POF roller cam pin

oneshot onekill

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Re: POF roller cam pin

It benefits Piston AR's most because of the way a piston driven AR Cam-pin smacks the inside of the receiver while cycling. The benefit is slightly less on a DI Gun.
 

sobrbiker883

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Re: POF roller cam pin

The bolt carrier's momentum in either platform drags the cam through the channel, unlocking the bolt.
While AR's have ran fine for decades, the NP3 coated roller has to be smoother that a steel rectangle.
Can't hurt, and lots of folks like them in their impingement guns.
 

1shot2kill

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Re: POF roller cam pin

does it make anything smoother,quieter faster etc or just reduce wear?
 

cyrekzz

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Re: POF roller cam pin

reduces wear - i have one for my 308 and when i had a 223 - i bought the roller for that too. It's smoother and doesn't make the "gouge".
 

Anchor Zero Six

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Re: POF roller cam pin

I have one for no reason other than I had returned some items and had a large chunk of credit at the store so I pimped my AR lol.

What I have noticed is it is much easier to clean and it looks cool and not much else.
 

Scottmilk9

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Re: POF roller cam pin

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It benefits Piston AR's most because of the way a piston driven AR Cam-pin smacks the inside of the receiver while cycling. The benefit is slightly less on a DI Gun. </div></div>

How would a piston AR be different than any direct impingement AR while unlocking and therefore smacking the inside of the receiver?
 

1shot2kill

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Re: POF roller cam pin

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Zero Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one for no reason other than I had returned some items and had a large chunk of credit at the store so I pimped my AR lol.

What I have noticed is it is much easier to clean and it looks cool and not much else. </div></div>

would you buy another one if you had to pay out of pocket this time ?
 

problemchild

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Re: POF roller cam pin

I used one and got my wife back, my truck back and my dog back.

Wait.......

Never mind that was a country record I played backwards.
 

SANDRAT

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Re: POF roller cam pin

POF makes quality stuff from what I hear,looks like a good upgrade especially if you are starting with a stripped BC and have to add a key anyway(for DI),just stake this one on instead.
 

ORD

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Re: POF roller cam pin

I have been running the roller cam pin in my P-308 since the beginning of the year. It runs very smoothly, prevents wear/tear on the upper receiver, and, since the internals of the POF upper are NP3 coated and the pin is NP3, the lubricity you get is outstanding (but the lubricity benefits are true even when you run the NP3 roller-cam pin with a standard, non-NP3 coated upper).

I was pleased with the performance I got in my P-308, so I got one for my AR-10 and for a 3-gun AR and they all run smoothly and function 100% with the roller cam pin in place. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them (or any of POF's products) to you or to anyone else looking to upgrade.
 

oneshot onekill

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Re: POF roller cam pin

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It benefits Piston AR's most because of the way a piston driven AR Cam-pin smacks the inside of the receiver while cycling. The benefit is slightly less on a DI Gun. </div></div>

How would a piston AR be different than any direct impingement AR while unlocking and therefore smacking the inside of the receiver? </div></div>

Here's the theory, but I have to say I'm not totally sold on its validity. However, I have seen more cam-pin wear on my piston AR's than my DI AR's and I think it's because you don't use the gas-rings on the bolt in a piston AR...

Anyway, on a Piston AR, when the piston hits the carrier-key on the top of the BCG and the carrier is forced back, the cam-pin is forced to travel diagonally along the slot in the top of the BCG because of cuts in the inside of the receiver. This motion twists the bolt, unlocks the lugs and allows the BCG to continue backward and finish its cycle. Because you don't need to use gas-rings on the bolt and it's basically "loose" the cam-pin rattles back and forth against the receiver as it travels backward. this leaves a small area "beaten" or "gouged" inside the receiver.

The same thing happens in a DI AR, but because the bolt's gas-rings and the gas inside the BCG in the beginning of the cycle cause tension in the twisting and unlocking of the bolt lugs, the cam-pin doesn't rattle as easily against the inside of the receiver and the "gouge" takes longer to show up... But it DOES show up.

The roller Cam-pin alleviates the damage because it's round and it rolls instead of scraping. I would think the roller cam-pin also smooths out the overall cycling of the BCG but I haven't used one yet so I don't know.
 

rescueswimmer

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Re: POF roller cam pin

I have one works well. The thing that sucks is if you order one little pin your paying like 8.00 in shipping. There CS really sucks so don't be surprised if its days before they process your order. I ordered 1 to test it out and liked it took about 10 days to get it and then ordered 2 more and I had to send about 2-3 emails and numerous phone calls after a week and after 12 days they called me and said. They were working on my order. Just a heads up. They make nice products but the other have of their operation sucks big time.

RS
 

oneshot onekill

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Re: POF roller cam pin

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rescueswimmer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one works well. The thing that sucks is if you order one little pin your paying like 8.00 in shipping. There CS really sucks so don't be surprised if its days before they process your order. I ordered 1 to test it out and liked it took about 10 days to get it and then ordered 2 more and I had to send about 2-3 emails and numerous phone calls after a week and after 12 days they called me and said. They were working on my order. Just a heads up. They make nice products but the other have of their operation sucks big time.

RS </div></div>
The "customer Service" thing really depends on who you get when you call...

But let me say this in their defense: They're sending a part that they specifically develpoed for "Their Piston AR" and people are buying it to improve the performance of "Competitor's AR's". I think it probably "chaps their hyde" just a little bit that their idea is helping the competition's guns run better. It would be a different story if they only made "Parts" for AR's. But they make the whole rifle and would probably prefer you buy the whole gun from them. Not to mention that I'm sure their guns get the parts FIRST and the rest of us have to wait for the "extras". I think we're lucky they don't charge more for it!
 

jamescaan

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Re: POF roller cam pin

I have only called POF customer service once, and really came away really pleased. I havent had one for very long, but the saveup to get another is in progress already. Maybe it is "who you get when you call" but the two folks I talked to were absolutely class acts, and I recommend their product to any and everyone. Just my .02, I have no connection to POF other than owning a rifle.
 

Scottmilk9

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Re: POF roller cam pin

RescueSwimmer, I apologize for the lack of good service, but there are more than just one person answering phones and processing orders now and I think the CS has improved tremendously in the last couple months. If you need anything give me a shout.

Oneshot, I didn't want this to sound like a pissing contest, but there are some flaws in your description on how the bolt unlocks.
Either way, the roller cam pin does smooth out the cycling.
 

468shot

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Re: POF roller cam pin

If you don't want to deal with their customer service rainier arms usually has them in stock. I just ordered a couple to try out.
 

oneshot onekill

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Re: POF roller cam pin

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RescueSwimmer, I apologize for the lack of good service, but there are more than just one person answering phones and processing orders now and I think the CS has improved tremendously in the last couple months. If you need anything give me a shout.

Oneshot, I didn't want this to sound like a pissing contest, but there are some flaws in your description on how the bolt unlocks.
Either way, the roller cam pin does smooth out the cycling. </div></div>

Not to be argumentative but I'm somewhat sure I know how it all works. I may have just not gotten it across correctly so please, explain what I missed or where I'm wrong. Not because I want to prove anything or fight about it. I'd just really like to know. Obviously, you build the gun... You know! You can PM it to me if you feel it would be Hi-Jacking the thread or too lengthy to post here. Thanks Scott!

John

And FWIW: My next rifle purchase will be a POF in .308. They're just the SHIT!
 

jasonk

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Re: POF roller cam pin

I'll be honest, I'm not an AR guy, I don't how it works....

However, I do have some experience with POF and can tell you that everyone I've met from there has been a class act!

In every large match I've shot POF has donated at the very least an upper ($1375) and at the most the helicopter & 2 guns (about $9,000). POF supports the sport, so I will actively try to support them whenever possible.
 

rescueswimmer

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Re: POF roller cam pin

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RescueSwimmer, I apologize for the lack of good service, but there are more than just one person answering phones and processing orders now and I think the CS has improved tremendously in the last couple months. If you need anything give me a shout.

</div></div>

Thanks for the heads up. I am glad to here that the CS has improved. I have to say out of all the threads I have read on here and a bunch over on AR15.com They all say the same thing outstanding products but poor CS. If you guys really buttoned that side up of the operation. People are going to be very happy.

RS
 

KevinB-KAC

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Re: POF roller cam pin

In DI guns with extraction, the bolt is pressurized against the barrel extension. In piston guns this does not happen and the piston rockets everything to the rear, so the delays on the bolt unlocking do not occur, and the can pin tends to tear a larger trough in the upper than DI guns (high round count DI guns will show this too).

Hence the roller cam pins, and the rounded corner cam pins etc. Remember the DI cam pin is only square so you can get it aligned while under the gas key, so its a legacy part on a piston system
 

AXEMAN

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Re: POF roller cam pin

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rescueswimmer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one works well. The thing that sucks is if you order one little pin your paying like 8.00 in shipping. There CS really sucks so don't be surprised if its days before they process your order. I ordered 1 to test it out and liked it took about 10 days to get it and then ordered 2 more and I had to send about 2-3 emails and numerous phone calls after a week and after 12 days they called me and said. They were working on my order. Just a heads up. They make nice products but the other have of their operation sucks big time.

RS </div></div>

thats one thing i have an issue with. brownells will at least ship for $4 on small parts. i wanted a savage marked gun sock so i could tell whats what in the safe. well they wanted $8, thats cool, but shipping was $11. pass. but for alot of places its just easier to go thru UPS. but usps will come pick up and they do deliver every day anyways... $1.50 for a padded envelope, $3 for postage if that?
 

GRIM

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Re: POF roller cam pin

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In DI guns with extraction, the bolt is pressurized against the barrel extension. In piston guns this does not happen and the piston rockets everything to the rear, so the delays on the bolt unlocking do not occur, and the can pin tends to tear a larger trough in the upper than DI guns (high round count DI guns will show this too).

Hence the roller cam pins, and the rounded corner cam pins etc. Remember the DI cam pin is only square so you can get it aligned while under the gas key, so its a legacy part on a piston system </div></div>

Good to know. I just ordered one for my piston AR. Thanks.
 

oneshot onekill

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Re: POF roller cam pin

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF0000">In DI guns with extraction, the bolt is pressurized against the barrel extension. In piston guns this does not happen and the piston rockets everything to the rear, so the delays on the bolt unlocking do not occur, and the can pin tends to tear a larger trough in the upper than DI guns (high round count DI guns will show this too).</span>
Hence the roller cam pins, and the rounded corner cam pins etc. Remember the DI cam pin is only square so you can get it aligned while under the gas key, so its a legacy part on a piston system </div></div>

This is good information and falls basically along the lines I was trying to explain in my earlier post. However, I fail to see how the "delay" has any bearing on the force with which the cam pin travels. The BCG is still "rocketing" back, which still forces the Cam pin along its slot... in a hurry. From what I've experienced, and I probably spent more time than I should have on this, it's the tension of the bolt inside the BCG created by the gas rings that causes a "softer", if you will, movement of the cam pin in a DI gun. I'd venture to guess that if you left the gas-rings on the bolt in a Piston gun the gouge would not appear as quickly. Might even act just like a DI gun with regard to this.

Oh, and by the way, I DO think the roller Cam-pin is a Great thing and should be standard on ALL AR's.
 

paulo_santos

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Re: POF roller cam pin

With a piston AR, the issue is called bolt thrust. If you have a piston AR, I'd recommend getting a bolt spring from Adam Arms.

In a DI system, when the gas travels down the gas tube, it goes inside the carrier and the gas pushes on the bolt and holds it open for a split second while the extraction begins. With the piston system, there is no gas to hold the bolt open for that split second so supposedly that has caused some bolts to break. That spring holds that bolt open similar to the way the gas holds the bolt open.

I have the POF cam Pin and it works real well.
 

oneshot onekill

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Re: POF roller cam pin

I think that spring is a good idea as well. I have one in my POF but it had already shown signs of wear before I put it in. However, it doesn't appear to be getting much worse.

But I really think if you left the Gas-rings on the bolt it would have a similar effect.