Possible to calculate minimum possible zero distance?

harry_x1

Khalsa
Full Member
Minuteman
Supporter+
Aug 13, 2019
301
124
I am trying to calculate if it is possible to zero my rifle at 100 yards. If not 100 then what is the minimum distance my rifle can be zeroed. Below are the specs:

1. Firing 338 Lapua Magnum (300 grain hunter berger, G7 as 0.417)from a 26 inch barrell (AI AXMC).
2. Rifle rail has in built 30 moa inclination
3. In addition to 2, I have a 61 MOA scope mount.
4. Muzzle velocity 2775
5. Scope is nightforce atacr 7-35x56 FFP with 29MRAD /100MOA internal adjustment range.
6. Scope height 2.96 inches

thanks for your time and assistance !
 

Barelstroker

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Sep 11, 2019
    821
    425
    I am trying to calculate if it is possible to zero my rifle at 100 yards. If not 100 then what is the minimum distance my rifle can be zeroed. Below are the specs:

    1. Firing 338 Lapua Magnum (300 grain hunter berger, G7 as 0.417)from a 26 inch barrell (AI AXMC).
    2. Rifle rail has in built 30 moa inclination
    3. In addition to 2, I have a 61 MOA scope mount.
    4. Muzzle velocity 2775
    5. Scope is nightforce atacr 7-35x56 FFP with 29MRAD /100MOA internal adjustment range.
    6. Scope height 2.96 inches

    thanks for your time and assistance !
    Well, if I understand the 61 MOA scope mount is adjustable, I would think you could zero the scope anywhere from the 30 MOA = 8.7 MRAD rail that you'd prefer.
    On the other hand, if the scope mount is fixed at 29 MRAD, It seems as though you may not have the internal scope travel to zero at 100.
     

    hafejd30

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 27, 2019
    4,002
    6,740
    MI
    I replied to the other thread where you posted the same. But I will here as well

    Do you have 91 moa total between the two?
     
    • Like
    Reactions: harry_x1

    harry_x1

    Khalsa
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Aug 13, 2019
    301
    124
    I replied to the other thread where you posted the same. But I will here as well

    Do you have 91 moa total between the two?
    Yes…91 moa fixed between rail and scope mount.
     

    hafejd30

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 27, 2019
    4,002
    6,740
    MI
    Yes…91 moa fixed between rail and scope mount.
    To me that’s way to much. I sent the chart on the other thread. But in my opinion 60 total moa would be plenty. Even a 20 moa mount with the 30 on the rail will be plenty for 2400
     
    • Like
    Reactions: harry_x1

    hafejd30

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 27, 2019
    4,002
    6,740
    MI
    The chart I posted on other thread. Again not mine but relevant to what you want to do
    3CB0BFC4-1E0F-4603-915B-1BEAA07EBC90.png
     

    Fig

    Janitor of the Hide
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 15, 2018
    8,828
    21,334
    The Most Dangerous City in the USA
    If your rail is >40% of your total travel I would get a less severe rail. Maybe @koshkin can chime in about being at the absolute maximum/minimum travel of the erector, but I thought it was a bad idea to be at the extremes for full functionality. You don't want to be wound out on your zero, and quite frankly you don't need that much travel even with a .338L.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: harry_x1

    hafejd30

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 27, 2019
    4,002
    6,740
    MI
    got it...let me know if I am thinking right. I have 91 minus 50 = 41 MOA of excessive elevation. Which should mean the my minimum zero is around ~1400 yards?
    You have 91 moa added elevation from your mount/rail. If you had zero then expect the scope to have 60 up and 60 down of travel when zeroed. By adding the 91 moa up you’re basically starting with 31 moa high on elevation.

    So let’s say with no elevation you sight in at 100. You can come up 60 moa from that zero. Which gets you to about 1800 yards

    Now add 91 moa in the base and mount and that same bullet will hit 31 moa or about 31 inches high at 100 when the scope is bottomed out.

    If you made that 50 moa instead of 91 (so 30 moa rail and 20 moa mount) that would back it off 41 moa. Or essentially giving you 10 moa of elevation down at 100 yards. Which is where I’d say you are reaching limits

    Ideally you want to play in the center of your scopes adjustment. Not maxed on either end all the time

    Personally I’d have:
    - 30 moa rail (which you already have)
    - 20 moa mount
    - Zero for 300 yards is what I had on mine. Dialed down for closer shots

    This would give you 110 moa of travel or 32 MIL up elevation. Putting you just shy of 2500 yards. Which you can make up with a reticle like the Mil XT. Beyond that distance we start talking big 33’s or 375 options if your serious about making those hits

    Just my opinion. It’s early so if my math is off someone feel free to correct me
     
    • Love
    Reactions: harry_x1

    hafejd30

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 27, 2019
    4,002
    6,740
    MI
    You can always add more elevation like 60 total instead of 50 moa. But at that point shooting at 100 will have the optic bottomed out. If it gets there at all. I personally only shot mine closer than 300 when hunting. Which was often as it was a gun used for crop damage for deer. For targets I’d have a 300 yard zero and worry about max distance on the other end vs needing to shoot closer with a 338 LM
     
    • Like
    Reactions: harry_x1

    2aBaC̶a̶

    Humans are amusing
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 27, 2019
    6,026
    7,345
    I Da ho
    Not sure you can do the math on paper by simply splitting the overall travel. that would assume center of travel is baseline of 0 at 100yds.

    that is most likely not the case.

    for example. I have a Burris XtR2 with 90moa overall. I could not zero with 20 rail and 20 mount. After contacting Burris they said its because they purposely offset the internals to compensate for about a 20 moa so with a 20 moa rail you should be in the center of scope travel and zero at 100yds.

    So actually the 20 rail + 20 mount + 20 factory offset gave me 60 moa overall.

    make sense?
     

    hafejd30

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Feb 27, 2019
    4,002
    6,740
    MI
    Not sure you can do the math on paper by simply splitting the overall travel. that would assume center of travel is baseline of 0 at 100yds.

    that is most likely not the case.

    for example. I have a Burris XtR2 with 90moa overall. I could not zero with 20 rail and 20 mount. After contacting Burris they said its because they purposely offset the internals to compensate for about a 20 moa so with a 20 moa rail you should be in the center of scope travel and zero at 100yds.

    So actually the 20 rail + 20 mount + 20 factory offset gave me 60 moa overall.

    make sense?
    My example was just in theory. But yes there can be factors that change it
     

    308pirate

    Gunny Sergeant
    Banned !
    Minuteman
  • Apr 25, 2017
    21,810
    33,552
    In the 8+ hrs it took to hash this out on the internet you could have gone to the range, sighted in your rifle, and had lunch…

    I was going to say the same thing. So much time wasted on theory. I mean, you do need to understand the theory, but instead of over analyzing, get close enough on the ballistic solver/equations and then go test.

    Old engineering saying: one test is worth 1000 expert opinions.
     

    harry_x1

    Khalsa
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Aug 13, 2019
    301
    124
    I was going to say the same thing. So much time wasted on theory. I mean, you do need to understand the theory, but instead of over analyzing, get close enough on the ballistic solver/equations and then go test.

    Old engineering saying: one test is worth 1000 expert opinions.
    your concept is absolutely correct..however the issue becomes when you have a newly mounted non zeroed scope...like in my situation, it would be pretty dangerous to fire the first test round...minimum zero is 14 mils and the very first round could potentially land 2 miles away.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Im2bent

    308pirate

    Gunny Sergeant
    Banned !
    Minuteman
  • Apr 25, 2017
    21,810
    33,552
    your concept is absolutely correct..however the issue becomes when you have a newly mounted non zeroed scope...like in my situation, it would be pretty dangerous to fire the first test round...minimum zero is 14 mils and the very first round could potentially land 2 miles away.

    You're doing something severely wrong if you cannot depress the scope enough to be able to hit something 100 yards away and still have elevation travel to hit something at over 1500 yards.

    I missed the part where you said you boresighted this setup. Did you?
     

    harry_x1

    Khalsa
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Aug 13, 2019
    301
    124
    You're doing something severely wrong if you cannot depress the scope enough to be able to hit something 100 yards away and still have elevation travel to hit something at over 1500 yards.

    I missed the part where you said you boresighted this setup. Did you?
    I almost forgot half of the craziness I ingulged in at the range with this set up. I think I first tried the laser boresight and quickly realised that the laser (barrell) is way higher than the scope reticle (at about 40 yards). Even with the scope elevation dialled down to minimum, I could see that my laser point was barely visible on top end of my scope view. I believe that was primarily due to the excessive elevation built into the system...30MOA rail plus 61 MOA scope mount. Once I saw that, I did not even boresight at 100 yards, packed my bags and came back home to make sense of this all.
     

    308pirate

    Gunny Sergeant
    Banned !
    Minuteman
  • Apr 25, 2017
    21,810
    33,552
    I almost forgot half of the craziness I ingulged in at the range with this set up. I think I first tried the laser boresight and quickly realised that the laser (barrell) is way higher than the scope reticle (at about 40 yards). Even with the scope elevation dialled down to minimum, I could see that my laser point was barely visible on top end of my scope view. I believe that was primarily due to the excessive elevation built into the system...30MOA rail plus 61 MOA scope mount. Once I saw that, I did not even boresight at 100 yards, packed my bags and came back home to make sense of this all.

    Is this your first rifle ever?
     

    2aBaC̶a̶

    Humans are amusing
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 27, 2019
    6,026
    7,345
    I Da ho
    I almost forgot half of the craziness I ingulged in at the range with this set up. I think I first tried the laser boresight and quickly realised that the laser (barrell) is way higher than the scope reticle (at about 40 yards). Even with the scope elevation dialled down to minimum, I could see that my laser point was barely visible on top end of my scope view. I believe that was primarily due to the excessive elevation built into the system...30MOA rail plus 61 MOA scope mount. Once I saw that, I did not even boresight at 100 yards, packed my bags and came back home to make sense of this all.
    😯 oh my.

    Just because a scope says 90 moa doesnt mean you can put 90 moa of cant in mounting it.

    They make adjustable scope mounts and also other devices for ELR that allow you to add elevation and still have a normal scope setup and 100yd zero.


     
    • Haha
    Reactions: harry_x1

    ClangClang

    Private
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 10, 2017
    321
    252
    MD
    I almost forgot half of the craziness I ingulged in at the range with this set up. I think I first tried the laser boresight and quickly realised that the laser (barrell) is way higher than the scope reticle (at about 40 yards). Even with the scope elevation dialled down to minimum, I could see that my laser point was barely visible on top end of my scope view. I believe that was primarily due to the excessive elevation built into the system...30MOA rail plus 61 MOA scope mount. Once I saw that, I did not even boresight at 100 yards, packed my bags and came back home to make sense of this all.

    If I'm understanding you correctly, your 41 yard point of aim is lower than your point of impact as seen through a boresight. This means that you could theoretically zero even closer than 41 yards. So obviously you'd be able to zero at 100 yards as well. Just push your target out further.

    FWIW, 91 MOA of elevation is almost exactly what you need to shoot out to around 1 mile with a 338LM. And then you still have all the elevation you can dial in your scope which would push you out to maybe 2 miles? I dont know exactly, I'm just estimating, but the point is.... if you're planning on shooting to only around 1500 yards, you have WAY more elevation than necessary in your rail/mount combo. All you would need is that 30MOA rail and a different 0 MOA mount and you'd be more than fine at 1500 yards. That would be a more sensible setup.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: harry_x1

    harry_x1

    Khalsa
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Aug 13, 2019
    301
    124
    😯 oh my.

    Just because a scope says 90 moa doesnt mean you can put 90 moa of cant in mounting it.

    They make adjustable scope mounts and also other devices for ELR that allow you to add elevation and still have a normal scope setup and 100yd zero.



    thanks for the recos...I am seriously considering the charlie tarac option. Picked this higher elevation scope mount as it seemed like a cheaper way to get things done. Lesson learnt
     

    2aBaC̶a̶

    Humans are amusing
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 27, 2019
    6,026
    7,345
    I Da ho
    thanks for the recos...I am seriously considering the charlie tarac option. Picked this higher elevation scope mount as it seemed like a cheaper way to get things done. Lesson learnt
    if you want an inexpensive way to maximize dialed elevation check out Burris XtR signature rings. they will give you customizable cant from 0-40 moa. for around $100 they are actually solid rings. I have 3 sets. Its allowed me to dial out to a mile with my 300PRC.

    Bottom your scope out on zero and start trying the inserts with the laser on until you get a combo that puts the reticle just below at 100yds. this you can do at home.

    At this point you can do your normal zero procedure.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: harry_x1

    hlee

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Jul 14, 2012
    8,731
    11,785
    44
    TX
    How to zero a rifle…

    1. Pack shit for range trip.
    2. Go to range.
    3. Unpack shit at range (you may need to pay someone and/or tell them you are there)
    4. Hang target at 100 yards (wait for cold range, if necessary)
    5. Set up rifle approximately pointed to target. Use a sand bag under the butt.
    6. Pull bolt completely from rifle
    7. Look through barrel
    8. Visually Center target within bore of rifle
    9. Don’t touch the rifle
    10. Look through the scope
    11. Use turrets to move reticle to the center of the target.
    12. Repeat steps 7-11 as necessary.
    (We’ll go with 13.) Put bolt back in rifle
    14. Take a shooting position behind the rifle
    15. Open the bolt
    16. Load the rifle
    17. Close the bolt
    18. Align the reticle with the center of the target.
    19. Insure the safety is off
    20. Repeat 18.
    21. Jerk that trigger like it’s your poodle and your trying to keep it away from a covid laced turd.
    22. Repeat 14-21 until you have a confidence building group
    23. Use the reticle to measure the distance from the center of the group to the point of aim.
    24. Repeat 22-23 until you have a group centered on the point of aim- or you run out of ammunition

    Congratulations, you now have a rifle zeroed at 100 yards. Don’t forget to post your accomplishment in the bear pit on snipers hide.
     

    harry_x1

    Khalsa
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Aug 13, 2019
    301
    124
    How to zero a rifle…

    1. Pack shit for range trip.
    2. Go to range.
    3. Unpack shit at range (you may need to pay someone and/or tell them you are there)
    4. Hang target at 100 yards (wait for cold range, if necessary)
    5. Set up rifle approximately pointed to target. Use a sand bag under the butt.
    6. Pull bolt completely from rifle
    7. Look through barrel
    8. Visually Center target within bore of rifle
    9. Don’t touch the rifle
    10. Look through the scope
    11. Use turrets to move reticle to the center of the target.
    12. Repeat steps 7-11 as necessary.
    (We’ll go with 13.) Put bolt back in rifle
    14. Take a shooting position behind the rifle
    15. Open the bolt
    16. Load the rifle
    17. Close the bolt
    18. Align the reticle with the center of the target.
    19. Insure the safety is off
    20. Repeat 18.
    21. Jerk that trigger like it’s your poodle and your trying to keep it away from a covid laced turd.
    22. Repeat 14-21 until you have a confidence building group
    23. Use the reticle to measure the distance from the center of the group to the point of aim.
    24. Repeat 22-23 until you have a group centered on the point of aim- or you run out of ammunition

    Congratulations, you now have a rifle zeroed at 100 yards. Don’t forget to post your accomplishment in the bear pit on snipers hide.
    Great SOP..thanks for sharing. One question: assume at step 10 you see dirt, you move the turret up but still cannot have the reticle even reach the paper target...what do we do now...how do we figure out minimum zero distance...thanks.
     

    2aBaC̶a̶

    Humans are amusing
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 27, 2019
    6,026
    7,345
    I Da ho
    How to zero a rifle…

    1. Pack shit for range trip.
    2. Go to range.
    3. Unpack shit at range (you may need to pay someone and/or tell them you are there)
    4. Hang target at 100 yards (wait for cold range, if necessary)
    5. Set up rifle approximately pointed to target. Use a sand bag under the butt.
    6. Pull bolt completely from rifle
    7. Look through barrel
    8. Visually Center target within bore of rifle
    9. Don’t touch the rifle
    10. Look through the scope
    11. Use turrets to move reticle to the center of the target.
    12. Repeat steps 7-11 as necessary.
    (We’ll go with 13.) Put bolt back in rifle
    14. Take a shooting position behind the rifle
    15. Open the bolt
    16. Load the rifle
    17. Close the bolt
    18. Align the reticle with the center of the target.
    19. Insure the safety is off
    20. Repeat 18.
    21. Jerk that trigger like it’s your poodle and your trying to keep it away from a covid laced turd.
    22. Repeat 14-21 until you have a confidence building group
    23. Use the reticle to measure the distance from the center of the group to the point of aim.
    24. Repeat 22-23 until you have a group centered on the point of aim- or you run out of ammunition

    Congratulations, you now have a rifle zeroed at 100 yards. Don’t forget to post your accomplishment in the bear pit on snipers hide.
    Great info, did you miss the part where he has a combined 90 moa of scope cant between his rings and base and his scope wont physically dial to get on paper at 100yds. so he wouldnt have made it past #11.

    plus hes shooting $5 bills. Ive seen guys go through a box of ammo trying to zero a rifle.
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: harry_x1

    hlee

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Jul 14, 2012
    8,731
    11,785
    44
    TX
    Great info, did you miss the part where he has a combined 90 moa of scope cant between his rings and base and his scope wont physically dial to get on paper at 100yds. so he wouldnt have made it past #11.

    plus hes shooting $5 bills. Ive seen guys go through a box of ammo trying to zero a rifle.
    Anyone that can’t use the instructions provided to zero a rifle a any distance in less time than the OP has spent jacking off in this thread, should not own firearms.

    Beyond that, a rifle/scope combination with 90 moa built into the mount is advanced equipment. Owners/shooters of said equipment shouldn’t need an internet forum to get them on paper.

    Moreover, anyone shooting $5 bills is lighting cigars with flaming $20 bills and should not care about what it costs to sight in a rifle.

    But, for completeness…

    If you look through the bore and see target, but look through the scope and see dirt, move to the 200 yard line and repeat. Then move to the 300 yard and repeat. Keep moving until you can see the target in both. Then start with step 12.

    Or look across the range and note that there is an assortment of targets placed at many different ranges accessible from your position.

    Or, if you are on a private/makeshift/abandoned range, have your buddy run out and move the target until you can bore sight the rifle.

    Or, move your shooting position back until you can bore sight the rifle.

    I hope your wind reading skills are up to the challenge. There are many reasons to zero at 100 yards.

    All of the above will produce better results faster than spending 8 hours on the internet (or by this time 10 days).
     

    2aBaC̶a̶

    Humans are amusing
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 27, 2019
    6,026
    7,345
    I Da ho
    Anyone that can’t use the instructions provided to zero a rifle a any distance in less time than the OP has spent jacking off in this thread, should not own firearms.

    Beyond that, a rifle/scope combination with 90 moa built into the mount is advanced equipment. Owners/shooters of said equipment shouldn’t need an internet forum to get them on paper.

    Moreover, anyone shooting $5 bills is lighting cigars with flaming $20 bills and should not care about what it costs to sight in a rifle.

    But, for completeness…

    If you look through the bore and see target, but look through the scope and see dirt, move to the 200 yard line and repeat. Then move to the 300 yard and repeat. Keep moving until you can see the target in both. Then start with step 12.

    Or look across the range and note that there is an assortment of targets placed at many different ranges accessible from your position.

    Or, if you are on a private/makeshift/abandoned range, have your buddy run out and move the target until you can bore sight the rifle.

    Or, move your shooting position back until you can bore sight the rifle.

    I hope your wind reading skills are up to the challenge. There are many reasons to zero at 100 yards.

    All of the above will produce better results faster than spending 8 hours on the internet (or by this time 10 days).
    How is that any fun for the rest of us?
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: harry_x1

    harry_x1

    Khalsa
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Aug 13, 2019
    301
    124
    Anyone that can’t use the instructions provided to zero a rifle a any distance in less time than the OP has spent jacking off in this thread, should not own firearms.

    Beyond that, a rifle/scope combination with 90 moa built into the mount is advanced equipment. Owners/shooters of said equipment shouldn’t need an internet forum to get them on paper.

    Moreover, anyone shooting $5 bills is lighting cigars with flaming $20 bills and should not care about what it costs to sight in a rifle.

    But, for completeness…

    If you look through the bore and see target, but look through the scope and see dirt, move to the 200 yard line and repeat. Then move to the 300 yard and repeat. Keep moving until you can see the target in both. Then start with step 12.

    Or look across the range and note that there is an assortment of targets placed at many different ranges accessible from your position.

    Or, if you are on a private/makeshift/abandoned range, have your buddy run out and move the target until you can bore sight the rifle.

    Or, move your shooting position back until you can bore sight the rifle.

    I hope your wind reading skills are up to the challenge. There are many reasons to zero at 100 yards.

    All of the above will produce better results faster than spending 8 hours on the internet (or by this time 10 days)

    appreciate your thoughtful clarification and knowledge sharing. But, what if 1) the range is only 100 yards or 2) you cannot get on paper, even at 200 yards....what would you do, in that case?
     

    308pirate

    Gunny Sergeant
    Banned !
    Minuteman
  • Apr 25, 2017
    21,810
    33,552
    for knowledge, what would you have done differently in my situation

    I would suggest building up experience and knowledge first instead of buying an ELR right and then asking a million questions, many of which are basic.

    Yeah you got the cash to go all in, I get it. And yet here you are wondering how to zero it.
     

    harry_x1

    Khalsa
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Aug 13, 2019
    301
    124
    I would suggest building up experience and knowledge first instead of buying an ELR right and then asking a million questions, many of which are basic.

    Yeah you got the cash to go all in, I get it. And yet here you are wondering how to zero it.
    I 'suggest', you read the Subject Line of this thread, at least 10 times, before continuing to embarrass yourself. Attention to detail, is not the strong suit of everyone, but doubling down on a mistake or misplaced argument, does not make one look good, my friend.
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: 308pirate

    nn8734

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Feb 26, 2013
    4,048
    3,566
    Las Vegas, NV
    I 'suggest', you read the Subject Line of this thread, at least 10 times, before continuing to embarrass yourself. Attention to detail, is not the strong suit of everyone, but doubling down on a mistake or misplaced argument, does not make one look good, my friend.
    How far do you plan on shooting this rifle on a regular basis?

    Also, why all the unnecessary commas?
     

    harry_x1

    Khalsa
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Aug 13, 2019
    301
    124
    How far do you plan on shooting this rifle on a regular basis?

    Also, why all the unnecessary commas?
    Am able to do 1600 consistently (9/10 in both day as well as night time with clip ons)…trying to see if this can be stretched to 2400 yards and what the effective range of this rifle and caliber is. If it can go to 2400 with 70% hit, then I will make this a 2400 yard rifle. Next step will be 375 cheytac, but that is once I know the limitations of 338.

    I would like this rifle to be able to shoot between 400-Max effective range (70% hit rate IMO).

    PS: thanks for checking my mistake with commas
     

    nn8734

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Feb 26, 2013
    4,048
    3,566
    Las Vegas, NV
    Am able to do 1600 consistently (9/10 in both day as well as night time with clip ons)…trying to see if this can be stretched to 2400 yards and what the effective range of this rifle and caliber is. If it can go to 2400 with 70% hit, then I will make this a 2400 yard rifle. Next step will be 375 cheytac, but that is once I know the limitations of 338.

    I would like this rifle to be able to shoot between 400-Max effective range (70% hit rate IMO).

    PS: thanks for checking my mistake with commas
    Yea if you’re going to critique someone for lack of attention to detail, you want to a least make sure your own shit is mistake-free (glass houses, stones, etc).

    You have way too much forward cant in your mounting system. Like someone else said, 50-60 moa should suffice for 2500y and you should be able to zero somewhere between 200-300 yards but you’d have to verify that on the range. You can also persue one of those adjustable cant-capable mounts.

    Given that, I wonder what your round’s transonic threshold is (can be computed based on known input data such as MV, DA, etc).

    And 70% hit rate at 2400y on what size target?

    You’re asking a lot of a 338LM and yourself if the target is man-sized. Go right to .375 CT or beyond if that’s going to be a significant part of your overall long range work as a hit rate below 70% all other things equal makes the cost per hit (not cost per round) non-sensible financially, IMO.

    I’d change your mounting set up on this 338LM rifle but its up to you.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: harry_x1

    harry_x1

    Khalsa
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Aug 13, 2019
    301
    124
    Yea if you’re going to critique someone for lack of attention to detail, you want to a least make sure your own shit is mistake-free (glass houses, stones, etc).

    You have way too much forward cant in your mounting system. Like someone else said, 50-60 moa should suffice for 2500y and you should be able to zero somewhere between 200-300 yards but you’d have to verify that on the range. You can also persue one of those adjustable cant-capable mounts.

    Given that, I wonder what your round’s transonic threshold is (can be computed based on known input data such as MV, DA, etc).

    And 70% hit rate at 2400y on what size target?

    You’re asking a lot of a 338LM and yourself if the target is man-sized. Go right to .375 CT or beyond if that’s going to be a significant part of your overall long range work as a hit rate below 70% all other things equal makes the cost per hit (not cost per round) non-sensible financially, IMO.

    I’d change your mounting set up on this 338LM rifle but its up to you.
    Cant disagree with anything in your first sentence. On the same note; Did YOU read the subject line and the two specific questions in the original post?

    Anyways, in your experience what is the effective range for 338 L (2feetx2feet, 70% hit rate). Secondly, do you have some experience with 375CT? If yes, what is the effective range (70% hit rate) for that cartridge (man size as well as for a 36x36 inch steel).
     

    nn8734

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
  • Feb 26, 2013
    4,048
    3,566
    Las Vegas, NV
    Cant disagree with anything in your first sentence. On the same note; Did YOU read the subject line and the two specific questions in the original post?

    Anyways, in your experience what is the effective range for 338 L (2feetx2feet, 70% hit rate). Secondly, do you have some experience with 375CT? If yes, what is the effective range (70% hit rate) for that cartridge (man size as well as for a 36x36 inch steel).
    No real need for me to read the thread title or first post.

    375CT: I don’t have direct experience but many on here do. Do a search and start a thread in the ELR subforum to gather input and feedback based on your objectives. I’m sure folks can point you in the right direction.

    Max Effective range: varies a bit based on conditions, location to location and what kind of day you’re having but broadly speaking it’s the lesser between either the max range that the bullet’s flight path can be reliably, mathematically predicted (general definition) or the maximum distance you can reliably hit a target within two to three rounds if beyond 800m

    Your Hit probability: cannot be calculated until you build up enough of a sample size of attempts (30 at minimum) and it will be only applicable to you on your system and ammo being used (i may take that same system and do better or worse, for example). Everyone has different proficiency levels, etc.

    That said, the Canadian Land Forces contract solicitation (2005) for the C8’s SWS replacement specified a 90% probability of a first round hit at 1200m using known inputs and constraints as a performance requirement so you can perhaps apply a similar approach to think through acquisition of a similar system that routinely achieves first round hit at 2400m 70% of the time. The rifle that ultimately won that contract was the PGW Timberwolf and became the C14 SWS…just a bit of trivia to help you along those lines.
     

    harry_x1

    Khalsa
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Supporter+
    Aug 13, 2019
    301
    124
    No real need for me to read the thread title or first post.

    375CT: I don’t have direct experience but many on here do. Do a search and start a thread in the ELR subforum to gather input and feedback based on your objectives. I’m sure folks can point you in the right direction.

    Max Effective range: varies a bit based on conditions, location to location and what kind of day you’re having but broadly speaking it’s the lesser between either the max range that the bullet’s flight path can be reliably, mathematically predicted (general definition) or the maximum distance you can reliably hit a target within two to three rounds if beyond 800m

    Your Hit probability: cannot be calculated until you build up enough of a sample size of attempts (30 at minimum) and it will be only applicable to you on your system and ammo being used (i may take that same system and do better or worse, for example). Everyone has different proficiency levels, etc.

    That said, the Canadian Land Forces contract solicitation (2005) for the C8’s SWS replacement specified a 90% probability of a first round hit at 1200m using known inputs and constraints as a performance requirement so you can perhaps apply a similar approach to think through acquisition of a similar system that routinely achieves first round hit at 2400m 70% of the time. The rifle that ultimately won that contract was the PGW Timberwolf and became the C14 SWS…just a bit of trivia to help you along those lines.
    Jesus....Canada has a military? WHY?

    Thanks for sharing the inputs. I did look up the C14 numbers and they are helpful in understanding outer limits of 338LM. Combining this with my own experience, I think the effective range (70% hit rate) for my 338 set up is around a mile. I will still try to stretch this to 2400, just for confirmation and data collection. As of now, it seems 375CT is the way to go for consistent 2400. I will come back and update this thread if/when I start getting consistent at that range.

    Meanwhile enjoy my two videos of the 1527 yard hits with 338LM. One is in daytime and second is night time. Thanks to all those who helped:

    PS: dont get offended by my PJ in first line.





     

    hlee

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Jul 14, 2012
    8,731
    11,785
    44
    TX
    If you have 90 moa of cant built into your system and only access to a 100 or 200 yard range AND you cannot bore sight your rifle at those distances, you have the wrong equipment for the task. Full stop.
     

    308pirate

    Gunny Sergeant
    Banned !
    Minuteman
  • Apr 25, 2017
    21,810
    33,552
    I 'suggest', you read the Subject Line of this thread, at least 10 times, before continuing to embarrass yourself. Attention to detail, is not the strong suit of everyone, but doubling down on a mistake or misplaced argument, does not make one look good, my friend.

    Right. Carry on.

    LOLOL
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: harry_x1