"Precision Reloading"+Dillon 650+Mk7 Auto Drive?

[hoguer]

So I have been reloading for my precision rifles for a while now, and im beginning to investigate faster loading options for my "high volume" precision rifles. I have never used a progressive press, let alone a powered system, so im looking for some input.
My current process with fired brass is:
Decap in universal decap die
SS Media Tumble
Case Lube
Resize
chamfer/debur
tumble to remove case lube
prime
load powder with Auto Trickler
load bullet

The issues I have with the concept of progressive reloading is based on me being fixed on that basic routine. If I am using a progressive press, i can live with depriming my freshly SS media tumbled brass, but i am still not understanding how you fit chamfer/debur process into the mix since every time i have ever tried to skip that step to speed up my loading, i will scrape/peel some jacket material off the bullet, and where in the process do you clean the case lube off of the ammo prior to powder drop?

If anyone is using a Dillon 650 for precision ammo, even more so with some powered drive system, i would appreciate your input.
i expect to loose some accuracy from my meticulous hand loads, but i want to minimize that as much as possible.

 

[padom]

I have 2 toolheads for each rifle caliber for my XL650. One is a brass prep toolhead and 1 is a loading toolhead. Here's what I do:

Over the winter I will process brass making it ready to load as follows and store in large bins till I am ready to make ammo. I do 5000 or so.

Tumble in corn cob with primers in and lube.


Brass Prep Toolhead
Station1: Decapping Die
Station 4: FL Sizing/Trim Die with RT1500 case trimmer
Station 5: 21st Century Expander Mandrel

This toolhead will deprime, push shoulder back, trim to length and set neck tension. You can than tumble in corn cob to remove lube or SS media if you choose. You can then chamfer/debur after your done tumbling or you can do it when you are ready to load them. Whatever works for you.


You then dump your cases into the case feeder and put your loading toolhead in

Station 1: Universal depriming die (to make sure flash holes are clear)
Station 2: Powder drop and prime
Station 4: Forster Ultra Micrometer seating die.


Your not going to loose accuracy if setup properly.

 

[hoguer]

Is there a “premium/precision” powder drop system for powders like h4350? And would the Mk7 system be practical for my goals or a waste of money?

 

[padom]

The mk7 is a waste of money IMHO. And for large stick powders you will want to polish your hopper, install a Uniquetek powder baffle, micrometer, polish your powder funnel. After doing that you will be very accurate in your drops.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Like others above, I have a 650 as well. I would not use it for "precision re-loads", unless quantity was more important than quality. OTOH, I take my center fire loading to the extreme and perform each step manually. Manual neck sizing, OAL trimming, primer pocket cleaning, priming, charging, seating, measuring each round for runout and OAL.....you get the idea.

I have looked at the various automation systems for the 650 and the 1050 and while very cool, I don't think they lend themselves to precision center fire ammunition. If I were loading 1K rounds (or more) of 5.56/.223 at a time for an AR, or 9mm or 45 ACP, I wouldn't have any problem using my 650 for that. In fact, I think a Mark 7 would be great, assuming you go through enough ammo annually to pay for it. The other thing that most people don't understand when getting into it is that the more "automated" a system is, the more complicated it is to get it working in the first place. I have a Mr. Bullet Feeder for my 650, but I have wasted a lot of components in the process of setting it up and getting it dialed in. The automation products only pencil out economically when they are being used to their maximum efficiency. That is, usually when you are loading 5 to 10 thousand rounds, at a minimum. The 650/1050 will do that, but, will you ? If you are only loading 500 or 1,000 rounds, the automation products haven't even warmed up yet, much less, begun to pay for themselves.

The downside of doing everything manually is that it takes a tremendous amount of time (per round). The upside is that I know every detail about every round that I load manually. I am old, slow and in no hurry. Loading 50 rounds of Precision .223, 6x47 Lapua or .308W and taking 1.5 hours to do it, doesn't bother me. In fact, it's therapeutic. Go to the Man Cave, say goodbye to the world's hassles, crack a cold one and load up some CF. By way of example, I shoot tight neck on all my center fire rounds, use nothing but Lapua brass and it is very common to get at least 15 reloads from each piece of brass. I just started annealing, so the number of reloads before retirement should go up from there.

I suppose that with most things, every tool has it's place. I just don't think an automation system for a 650/1050 is a good investment for what is supposed to be a "precision round". High volume pistol rounds and center fire plinking rounds ? Now that's a different story....

 

[bruddah]

I have 2 toolheads for each rifle caliber for my XL650. One is a brass prep toolhead and 1 is a loading toolhead. Here's what I do:

Over the winter I will process brass making it ready to load as follows and store in large bins till I am ready to make ammo. I do 5000 or so.

Tumble in corn cob with primers in and lube.


Brass Prep Toolhead
Station1: Decapping Die
Station 4: FL Sizing/Trim Die with RT1500 case trimmer
Station 5: 21st Century Expander Mandrel

This toolhead will deprime, push shoulder back, trim to length and set neck tension. You can than tumble in corn cob to remove lube or SS media if you choose. You can then chamfer/debur after your done tumbling or you can do it when you are ready to load them. Whatever works for you.


You then dump your cases into the case feeder and put your loading toolhead in

Station 1: Universal depriming die (to make sure flash holes are clear)
Station 2: Powder drop and prime
Station 4: Forster Ultra Micrometer seating die.


Your not going to loose accuracy if setup properly.

Thats very cool actually.

 

[hoguer]

Thanks for the info. The sorry for sounding like a idiot but what’s the reason for the expander mandrel? Are you using just the body of the resizing dye and then using a standalone mandrel for resizing the ID of the case neck?

 

[TheGerman]

Only thing I'll add is on the 650 for 223/5.56, you're going to want to take a look at the Lyman 'M' expander die for the 1st stage of your loading toolhead. Even with a smoothed out shellplate on the index, you will run into the bullets wanting to lean and fall off of the case; the M die bells the top of the neck slightly to prevent this and then is ironed out by the seater die and crimp.

 

[padom]

Thanks for the info. The sorry for sounding like a idiot but what’s the reason for the expander mandrel?

Expander Mandrel sets .002 neck tension. The trim die only pushes the shoulder back and squeezes the neck down but there is no expander ball or anything to open it back up...without the expander mandrel you would have excessive neck tension...

 

[padom]

Only thing I'll add is on the 650 for 223/5.56, you're going to want to take a look at the Lyman 'M' expander die for the 1st stage of your loading toolhead. Even with a smoothed out shellplate on the index, you will run into the bullets wanting to lean and fall off of the case; the M die bells the top of the neck slightly to prevent this and then is ironed out by the seater die and crimp.

I've loaded 10's of thousands of 5.56 on my 650 and never had this problem or needed to bell rifle cases...

 

[bruddah]

I've loaded 10's of thousands of 5.56 on my 650 and never had this problem or needed to bell rifle cases...

I find it odd to bell a rifle case mouth as well, though admittedly, I've never ran any rifle cases on a progressive.

I do usually give a very healthy chamfer to the inside edge to help eliminate shaving the brass and to help the bullet slide in with less effort.

 

[TheGerman]

I've loaded 10's of thousands of 5.56 on my 650 and never had this problem or needed to bell rifle cases...

I don't know, I made a thread about it a while back and even with the smoothed out indexing I shake some loose. I'm using the MrBulletfeeder though, so that may be why.

 

[padom]

I don't know, I made a thread about it a while back and even with the smoothed out indexing I shake some loose. I'm using the MrBulletfeeder though, so that may be why.

Yea I don't use a Mr Bullet Feeder so zero experience with that.

 

[the m700 project]

In talking to a small ammo production plant. The Mark 7 is awesome for the 30 second clips you see on youtube but they are extremely finicky and you will spend more time setting it up and tuning it on a constant basis then it would take for you to just run it yourself.

Im also in the 2 toolhead school of thought. I like prepped brass that I can prime, powder, seat, and crimp. I cant get my head around putting powder and bullets in lubed cases