I find that good (Bartlein, Krieger, etc) barrels do not pick up much copper. If you use one of those no-copper jags and a good solvent, there is very little blue coming out on the patches. I don't worry about the little bit that gets left behind.
Gunsmithing Precision Rifle Cleaning
- Thread starter jmzzlbot
- Start date
Most mistake the residue from the bronze brush or jag as copper fouling as the continued use of these by people who over do it, starts to bleed onto the patches and give the false indicator the rifle is copper fouling when it is a just soaked and coated brushes and jags.
These tools will leave the same bluing because the solvent doesn't know the difference. It will eat anything you put in front of them.
These tools will leave the same bluing because the solvent doesn't know the difference. It will eat anything you put in front of them.
.22's last for damn near ever, even when they're dirty. Because of that, you need to be more cautious about cleaning them. Where you might clean a .234 barrel a couple dozen times over its life, you can clean a rimfire many times that number. For normal .22's I err on the side of leaving it dirty- I spray out the action to get rid of the crud and call it a day unless it's just getting terrible. I have no idea what to do with a high zoot eruo match .22 - they might be different.
Also, u have to watch for leading issues in a 22... I pushed a tight brush down a mk2 target and had strips of lead come out the bore from the rifleing...
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No, he's not.
This topic has taught me much about cleaning regimens.
First and foremost, I keep brass implements out of the bore from now on.
When cleaning, Bore Foam (I use Outer's Gunslick foam) works, period; and all that's needed after foaming is patching (and in a fit of anal miscomprehension, even though I know better, I do it anyway), a last step putting down a layer of oil for a moisture and oxygen barrier.
The cleaning agent does the work, all that brushes can do well is to apply it more evenly within the bore, and especially, the grooves. When using a brush for solvent application, a nylon brush works at least as well as a metallic one, and leaves no 'false blue' on the patches.
Since the solvent does the work, using larger patches moves more solvent into and out of the bore. The way I use larger patches is to use a steel slotted tip with the longest shank I can find; this permits more patch material to into the bore without jamming.
I know I'm done when the dry patches come out with only light staining. An utterly clean patch indicates only one thing, overcleaning.
Obviously, brushes don't work as well with foam, so I skip using them.
My musings about using bore butter as a long term bore protectant are over the top. Oil should be plenty.
Most of all, LL's and Chad's admonitions about letting the rifle's performance dictate if and when cleaning could actually be helpful need to be my (only) guide about such matters.
The exceptions I trust are about muzzleloaders and corrosive surplus (Russian, anybody?) ammunition. This is driven home by the Russian arsenal practice of backboring the muzzle ends of barrels to compensate for cleaning rod wear. The corrosive ammo's need for frequent cleaning leads to this, and also proves the truth about most bore damage coming from cleaning.
I especially like the idea that if it isn't a bullet, its presence in the bore may not be productive.
Greg
First and foremost, I keep brass implements out of the bore from now on.
When cleaning, Bore Foam (I use Outer's Gunslick foam) works, period; and all that's needed after foaming is patching (and in a fit of anal miscomprehension, even though I know better, I do it anyway), a last step putting down a layer of oil for a moisture and oxygen barrier.
The cleaning agent does the work, all that brushes can do well is to apply it more evenly within the bore, and especially, the grooves. When using a brush for solvent application, a nylon brush works at least as well as a metallic one, and leaves no 'false blue' on the patches.
Since the solvent does the work, using larger patches moves more solvent into and out of the bore. The way I use larger patches is to use a steel slotted tip with the longest shank I can find; this permits more patch material to into the bore without jamming.
I know I'm done when the dry patches come out with only light staining. An utterly clean patch indicates only one thing, overcleaning.
Obviously, brushes don't work as well with foam, so I skip using them.
My musings about using bore butter as a long term bore protectant are over the top. Oil should be plenty.
Most of all, LL's and Chad's admonitions about letting the rifle's performance dictate if and when cleaning could actually be helpful need to be my (only) guide about such matters.
The exceptions I trust are about muzzleloaders and corrosive surplus (Russian, anybody?) ammunition. This is driven home by the Russian arsenal practice of backboring the muzzle ends of barrels to compensate for cleaning rod wear. The corrosive ammo's need for frequent cleaning leads to this, and also proves the truth about most bore damage coming from cleaning.
I especially like the idea that if it isn't a bullet, its presence in the bore may not be productive.
Greg
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A lot of good advice here, I usually do the same procedure as Greg.
However living where i do letting a rifle go 1500 rounds without cleaning is just not possible due to corrosion.
Rains average of 70-80% of the year according to statistics at least.
The environment is relatively humid, witch kind of says it self.
And there's salt in the air, having more then 10 ms of wind(witch is very ordinary) makes the North Atlantic leave salt deposits on my house windows and everything else that is outside
So living somewhere like this more frequent cleaning is needed, and not using any corrosion protection in you're barrel or on the rifle (depending on it's coating) would just be stupid under these circumstances. Hoppes Gun Oil does the job very well and is what i use mostly.
Of course a SS barrel helps migitate this a bit, but I've left SS barrels in my gun cabinet for some time without cleaning after use.
And sure enough corrosion became present as i feared.
I do however go shooting and hunting, wether it rains or snows. the only limitation is when the gusting winds gets excessive.
And my guns gets to spend quite a few hours in a open boat at sea even from time to time.
So do not forget to take the environment factors into account when it comes to cleaning/mainentance of you're rifle.
However living where i do letting a rifle go 1500 rounds without cleaning is just not possible due to corrosion.
Rains average of 70-80% of the year according to statistics at least.
The environment is relatively humid, witch kind of says it self.
And there's salt in the air, having more then 10 ms of wind(witch is very ordinary) makes the North Atlantic leave salt deposits on my house windows and everything else that is outside
So living somewhere like this more frequent cleaning is needed, and not using any corrosion protection in you're barrel or on the rifle (depending on it's coating) would just be stupid under these circumstances. Hoppes Gun Oil does the job very well and is what i use mostly.
Of course a SS barrel helps migitate this a bit, but I've left SS barrels in my gun cabinet for some time without cleaning after use.
And sure enough corrosion became present as i feared.
I do however go shooting and hunting, wether it rains or snows. the only limitation is when the gusting winds gets excessive.
And my guns gets to spend quite a few hours in a open boat at sea even from time to time.
So do not forget to take the environment factors into account when it comes to cleaning/mainentance of you're rifle.
Regarding the increased tendency to rust in your area, you might look into durable protective coatings/paints, like KG Gun Kote, which also has an 'air cure' version.
Greg
Greg
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Just ordered myself some Christmas presents. Got a Tipton carbon fiber deluxe cleaning rod, Tipton universal bore guide, and a Tipton nylon brush, bore mop, brass jag, and brass patch puller. Also ordered some Gunslick foaming bore cleaner, some .30cal patches, a new shotgun sling, and a factory Mini-14 mag.
I think it's a pretty good start.
I think it's a pretty good start.
Thanks for the advice Greg.
But i use Cerakote C series for the exterior finish on my guns, and it's held up fine so far.
When i'm set up for it with the right equipment, i will start using the H series though.
Need to buy everything myself though, as there's not a single gunsmith here that uses Cerakote.
And running a coating service for firearms is not possible here without a gunsmith lisence.
But i use Cerakote C series for the exterior finish on my guns, and it's held up fine so far.
When i'm set up for it with the right equipment, i will start using the H series though.
Need to buy everything myself though, as there's not a single gunsmith here that uses Cerakote.
And running a coating service for firearms is not possible here without a gunsmith lisence.
4 wet patches M-Pro 7 gun cleaner gel
3 dry patches until dry
Every 200-300 rounds
3 dry patches until dry
Every 200-300 rounds
exactly !
I do not compete or anything...but I do shoot out to 800 yards and beyond on a regular basis...so I like the groups to stay small.
Not being in competition, I don't need to be in a hurry with my gun cleaning.
Once a year, after deer season, I give the rifle a pretty good cleaning...I use NOTHING but Hoppes Benchrest Solvent, CLP and patches....none of my rifles have ever seen a brush of any kind.
I also do not use cleaning rods...I've been using Otis cables for about 25 years now.
The "end of the year" process is as follows:
Wet patch (Hoppes Benchrest Solvent)...let soak overnight...tight, dry patch...repeat as needed until tight patch comes out clean...may take 2-4 repetitions....once its clean, a wet patch of CLP and put it in the safe....that's the only real cleaning my rifles get.
After a day at the range...a wet patch of CLP, a tight dry patch, another wet patch....put it in the safe.
Always pull a dry patch through before firing the first shot after either cleaning.
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Not being in competition, I don't need to be in a hurry with my gun cleaning.
Once a year, after deer season, I give the rifle a pretty good cleaning...I use NOTHING but Hoppes Benchrest Solvent, CLP and patches....none of my rifles have ever seen a brush of any kind.
I also do not use cleaning rods...I've been using Otis cables for about 25 years now.
The "end of the year" process is as follows:
Wet patch (Hoppes Benchrest Solvent)...let soak overnight...tight, dry patch...repeat as needed until tight patch comes out clean...may take 2-4 repetitions....once its clean, a wet patch of CLP and put it in the safe....that's the only real cleaning my rifles get.
After a day at the range...a wet patch of CLP, a tight dry patch, another wet patch....put it in the safe.
Always pull a dry patch through before firing the first shot after either cleaning.
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New barrel/rifle gets cleaned, lubed and inspected thoroughly when unboxed.
Shoot one round. Run a wet patch of Butch's Bore Shine, let it sit 10 minutes, run another wet patch (look for green/blue). Follow immediately with dry patches until there is no residue. Follow with a wet patch of Naptha (Zippo lighter fluid was once regularly available) to be sure you got all that BBS out and more dry patches.
If there was copper found (green/blue), you have a not very smooth bore that you need to polish with bullets. Shoot, clean, shoot, clean. Or you might try some of those abrasive bullets but I would not recommend that. A friend even uses 1500 grit compund on a patched jag, but I'd rather wear out my barrels by shooting them.
If there was no copper found, move right to shooting 10 rounds. Repeat the above process until you are no longer seeing copper after 100 rounds.
If you have a custom barrel, usually you won't find much copper at all and are good for a day of shooting. I ALWAYS clean after my day is done...old habits die hard. I leave the barrel and bare metal parts coated with WD40 Long Term Corrosion stuff and make sure my desiccant bags are dry and the dehumidifier is working. Run a dry patch before I go out again. I only have one rifle that has a severe cold bore first round deviation (it's an over rated Kimber Mountain Ascent in 280AI with a barrel about as big around as a Dixon Ticonderoga Yellow #2), the others all shoot a nice group including the cold bore shot.
No brushes, ever. Otis stuff in the field (home, too on my Garand and M1A1) and coated rods with guides at home, breech to muzzle always.
Shoot one round. Run a wet patch of Butch's Bore Shine, let it sit 10 minutes, run another wet patch (look for green/blue). Follow immediately with dry patches until there is no residue. Follow with a wet patch of Naptha (Zippo lighter fluid was once regularly available) to be sure you got all that BBS out and more dry patches.
If there was copper found (green/blue), you have a not very smooth bore that you need to polish with bullets. Shoot, clean, shoot, clean. Or you might try some of those abrasive bullets but I would not recommend that. A friend even uses 1500 grit compund on a patched jag, but I'd rather wear out my barrels by shooting them.
If there was no copper found, move right to shooting 10 rounds. Repeat the above process until you are no longer seeing copper after 100 rounds.
If you have a custom barrel, usually you won't find much copper at all and are good for a day of shooting. I ALWAYS clean after my day is done...old habits die hard. I leave the barrel and bare metal parts coated with WD40 Long Term Corrosion stuff and make sure my desiccant bags are dry and the dehumidifier is working. Run a dry patch before I go out again. I only have one rifle that has a severe cold bore first round deviation (it's an over rated Kimber Mountain Ascent in 280AI with a barrel about as big around as a Dixon Ticonderoga Yellow #2), the others all shoot a nice group including the cold bore shot.
No brushes, ever. Otis stuff in the field (home, too on my Garand and M1A1) and coated rods with guides at home, breech to muzzle always.
The problem that I have seen with ammonia based products is that people don't use them correctly and then it can damage a barrel.
When I do clean mine I now and have been for years, I use KG products. There products are non ammonia based products,but I still use it as recommended.
When I do clean mine I now and have been for years, I use KG products. There products are non ammonia based products,but I still use it as recommended.
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Bore guide is a must. Do not use a cleaning rod w/o it. One piece Dewy rod is very good. Get a very long one to get to the muzzle and not be over the stock with the handle.
OFG
Do any of you shoot suppressed does that change your cleaning habits ? Seems like the crown and action needs cleaning more often .
Majority of BR guys do not clean until accuracy drops. Run a couple patches to remove junk, but not bare metal. I have been bugging them for years trying to find out. BR guys can't tell you how to acquire and shoot from bipods, but they KNOW cleaning, accurate calibers, etc.
Carbon ring in the throat is the big one
Carbon ring in the throat is the big one
