Suppressors Precision suppressor vs suppressor- reality check

[Old Man with Gun]

I keep seeing posts that suggest that for a precision rifle build, it takes a special class of suppressor.

I have a lot of precision rifles and a lot of suppressors and for the most part, I don't see any difference in precision from one can to the next. POI shift for sure, some are lighter, etc. But no changes to performance.

Some examples:
My MPA precision rifle, sub .5 MOA has a TBAC Ultra 9 6.5 on it now, but shoots the same as when I had a Rugged Surge, Silencerco Specwar 7.62 or Silencerco Saker 7.62.

My RRA 24" varmint, about .6 MOA has had a Silencerco Specwar 5.56, Silencerco Saker 5.56, Rugged Razor and GA RECCE 5 that shot the same.

I could give similar examples for my RRA ATH, Tikka T3X varmint or 6.5G AR build.

Have I noticed details, sure the Saker 5.56 has the biggest POI shift by far (Gen 1 with Hoplon baffle). My TBAC Ultra 7 and Ultra 9 have a nicer balance, but I expect a titanium suppressor that isn't Full Auto rated to be lighter.

But, it doesn't seem to make a bit of difference in terms of group size.

So, am I missing some other factors or are there people out there with suppressors that increase group sizes?
Any first hand experience?

I want to be clear that I'm not saying features other than group size are not well worth the price. I had hoped my Ultra 9 would make me a better shot ; ).... but I liked its balance, sound etc. So much I ordered the Ultra 7 shortly after.

 

[paco ramirez]

A symmetrical blast chamber is the most important part of a precision long range rifle silencer besides concentricity and mount.

 

[FuhQ]

I keep seeing posts that suggest that for a precision rifle build, it takes a special class of suppressor.

I have a lot of precision rifles and a lot of suppressors and for the most part, I don't see any difference in precision from one can to the next. POI shift for sure, some are lighter, etc. But no changes to performance.

Some examples:
My MPA precision rifle, sub .5 MOA has a TBAC Ultra 9 6.5 on it now, but shoots the same as when I had a Rugged Surge, Silencerco Specwar 7.62 or Silencerco Saker 7.62.

My RRA 24" varmint, about .6 MOA has had a Silencerco Specwar 5.56, Silencerco Saker 5.56, Rugged Razor and GA RECCE 5 that shot the same.

I could give similar examples for my RRA ATH, Tikka T3X varmint or 6.5G AR build.

Have I noticed details, sure the Saker 5.56 has the biggest POI shift by far (Gen 1 with Hoplon baffle). My TBAC Ultra 7 and Ultra 9 have a nicer balance, but I expect a titanium suppressor that isn't Full Auto rated to be lighter.

But, it doesn't seem to make a bit of difference in terms of group size.

So, am I missing some other factors or are there people out there with suppressors that increase group sizes?
Any first hand experience?

I want to be clear that I'm not saying features other than group size are not well worth the price. I had hoped my Ultra 9 would make me a better shot ; ).... but I liked its balance, sound etc. So much I ordered the Ultra 7 shortly after.

I agree. Some cans have more features, or are made of nicer/better materials, are lighter, quieter, etc... But as for the whole "this is a precision rifle can, and that's not..." I think most of it's marketing hype and tabloid conjecture.

Accurate guns, accurate shooters, and precision loads are going to be bigger factors affecting accuracy and repeatability, than the brand, model, or type of can on the end, IMO. But to each, his own.

This is just simply my opinion.

 

[elwarpo]

More opinion here... I have a TBAC Dominus and a AAC Cyclone. I have shot 4 rifles with them (RPR 6.5CM, Howa 1500 .308, Savage Axis II Precision 6.5CM, Tikka T3 Tac .223). On the Tikka and Howa POI shift is about the same for both cans. On the Howa POI is better with the Dominus, while POI shift is better with the Cyclone on the RPR. All rifles are .5 to .7 MOA. I do notice that with the can my groups are better, not sure if it is the can helping accuracy or me shoot better. But overall both cans give the same group sizes with the cyclone a bit better. Cyclone is direct thread and Dominus has the SR mount.

 

[trophy8]

Sure! The precision rifle can costs a few hundred more

My harvester, specwar, both nomads, all do an excellent job.

 

[Easy_E]

One of the issues we ran into is the mounting system like the type with a separate brake bouncing under recoil .

 

[FuhQ]

One of the issues we ran into is the mounting system like the type with a separate brake bouncing under recoil .

That's one reason I love the design of the Dead Air KeyMount brakes. Mount, lugs, and muzzle brake are all machined from 1 solid piece of steel, and the lockup is repeatable and so is the POI shift. Plus, the 3-chamber brake works REALLY well when unsuppressed.

 

[chevy_man]

I think it matters what mount you use.

I run all direct thread because mounts are expensive compared to my time to spin the can a few turns. Zero issues with it coming loose on me.

I've not had any issues with shift. All my rifles are zero'd with cans on and not shot without, so all my load development is done with them anyways.


I have experienced issues with several qd mounts, which is why I chose not to use any of them.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I do not use any direct thread rifle suppressors. I have a lot of Silencerco ASR mounts, because I have a lot of silencerco suppressors. I have 2 Specwar 7.62 and a Specwar 5.56 where the ASR are welded in, so no plans to change.

These are not my favorites, but they have been reliable and have a consistent POI. They have teeth that lock them in, so I do a light hand tight, then just enough to get the teeth to align. If you over tighten you can get to where the teeth are not aligned, so back off the slightest works.

I like the Rugged mount, it is rock solid, reliable and consistent.

The Griffin Armament taper mount and TBAC taper mount have been solid, reliable and consistent. Don't over tighten them, especially when new as they can be hard to remove.

I had two Silencerco Saker mounts, and after one failed, launching my can, Silencerco switched them to ASR for me.

I know there are some great mounting options now, but so far In terms of precision, I haven't had any issues.

 

[just browsing]

I think it’s more due to the fact that certain cans are “optimized” for one platform vs. another. And when people ask about one vs. another, “which one should I buy,” etc. etc. it only makes sense to recommend one that’s best suited for their specific application (i.e. get a precision suppressor for your precision rifle). It’s not that you can’t use a general suppressor on a precision gun or a precision can on a gasser, it’s just that they weren’t necessarily manufactured with that use in mind.

Case in point, can you use a TBAC Ultra on a gas gun? Sure. Does it sound good? Yes. Does it shoot fine? Sure does. Are you gonna get a ton of blowback because it has higher back pressure than a can made specifically for semi/full auto use? Absolutely. Same thing with the POI shift and return to zero as you mentioned.

It’s not that you can’t do it, there are just better options.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I think it’s more due to the fact that certain cans are “optimized” for one platform vs. another. And when people ask about one vs. another, “which one should I buy,” etc. etc. it only makes sense to recommend one that’s best suited for their specific application (i.e. get a precision suppressor for your precision rifle). It’s not that you can’t use a general suppressor on a precision gun or a precision can on a gasser, it’s just that they weren’t necessarily manufactured with that use in mind.

Case in point, can you use a TBAC Ultra on a gas gun? Sure. Does it sound good? Yes. Does it shoot fine? Sure does. Are you gonna get a ton of blowback because it has higher back pressure than a can made specifically for semi/full auto use? Absolutely. Same thing with the POI shift and return to zero as you mentioned.

It’s not that you can’t do it, there are just better options.

I agree with what you say, except for putting an Ultra on a gas gun, I dont trust it to handle the heat, or me to stop and wait for it to cool.

 

[FuhQ]

I agree with what you say, except for putting an Ultra on a gas gun, I dont trust it to handle the heat, or me to stop and wait for it to cool.

That's why after buying my Nomad-LT, I decided to buy 2 Sandman-S cans strictly for my AR's. I know they can handle the heat and abuse. Especially since I have a few shorter barrels.

 

[hafejd30]

Remember that like anything in the gun world when a “thought” or legit “pattern” develops in the industry it tends to stick with people for the long haul

Suppressors have come a long way in the past several years. Becoming more repeatable that they were. It used to be direct thread was the only choice for precision shooting, not the case anymore.

That said I’ve yet to see my TBAC ultra 9 or Saker ASR 555 make my groups worse. The TBAC seems to tighten them up if anything

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

I was under the impression that the “precision” silencers had a more repeatable POI shift as compared to others. At least that’s what all the marketing led me to believe. No idea really because I’ve only got one at the moment.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

A big part of POI shift, is that length and profile of barrel you have. A barrel will be pulled down by the weight of the suppressor. So, you have less POI shift with lighter suppressors, shorter barrels and especially thicker barrels. Any additions to the barrel can change the harmonics as well.

At least to me, POI shift doesn't matter on a precision build. Suppressor on and off are two different profiles in the Kestrel. Even if you had zero POI shift, your velocity changes so it is still two profiles in the Kestrel. Just a few clicks here and there on the scope.

I'm not on a soap box, I really didn't know what responses I'd get to my question, but it appears that there is no difference in precision between a "precision" suppressor and a non precision suppressor at least among quality brands.

I do hope that some people read this thread and are able to make wiser decisions. I have spent big dollars under the belief that a TBAC Ultra 9 6.5 would translate into smaller groups if I replaced my Rugged Surge. My experience doing this taught me that on a 20lb plus bench gun, I saw no benefit in precision.

In the end, I kept the Ultra 9 6.5 on my bench gun for the better sound reduction and nice tone. Then purchased a Ultra 7 6.5 for a hunting rifle with thin long barrel because the rifle balances so much nicer with a lighter can.

The decision to go Ultra was based on an outstanding company reputation and a model that fit my needs for an ultra light, high performance can.