Primer failures

[Claluja]

Had four apparent primer failures today in bolt gun. Primers were GM210M. Pix attached. Pulled bullets to inspect.

Three of the primers that failed to ignite in the pictures are in the middle, surrounded on opposite sides by fired primers and brand new primers from the same lot. Note color difference. These primers were purchased about a year ago, and stored since by me in dry environment at room temperature.

Any ideas here? Bad batch? Retailers selling old stock? Anyone else have these primers fail? Thanks.

 

[Claluja]

Another picture

 

[rustyinbend]

Wow ... that's ugly. I've used those same primers for a long time with no issues whatsoever. I've gotta think "bad batch" is most likely.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Did you wet tumble your brass and were you completely certain that it was dry before seating the primers and adding powder?

I made that mistake once. I let the brass sit for 24 hours in a dry place but it didn't dry.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Did the powder that was in the case look "strange"? Like it was trying to burn?

If not it's possible you didn't have the primer seated deep enough in the pockets.

 

[Tokay444]

Lube in the striker assembly?

 

[918v]

Did you seat them all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket?

 

[6.5SH]

Looks like some sort of contamination; lube, oil, water etc.

 

[sheepdog697]

Did you seat them all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket?

I’m sure a lot of you in here have been reloading longer than me, but this was my thought.

 

[Claluja]

All primers were seated plenty deep - using 21st century hand tool, bottomed out then some. Have done this thousands and thousands of times - never had this happen before today. Pretty sure at least some of the cases were not wet tumbled. Powder looked normal.

 

[918v]

What does “plenty deep” mean? Did you feel the primer bottom out in the primer pocket?

 

[Claluja]

What does “plenty deep” mean? Did you feel the primer bottom out in the primer pocket?

using 21st century hand tool, bottomed out then some. And below plane.

 

[Tokay444]

So, lube in the striker assembly?

 

[Milo 2.5]

Historically Fed match primers do not have history of not going off. As mentioned, either your primer is not seated deep enough or you have a headspace issue.
If you are willing to waste 10 or so primers, prime those 4 cases and 6 more and take them to your garage or outside and fire them, see if they all go off.
Did you try firing those 4 cases again, it sure looks like it to me?

 

[Tokay444]

Or lube in your striker assembly.
If you smash those primers with a hammer, they’ll go off.

 

[918v]

using 21st century hand tool, bottomed out then some. And below plane.

What rifle? Maybe something is happening in the headspace, striker spring, trigger area?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Your primer pockets look too deep.
Hard to tell in the photos, but they look way below flush or flush plus a couple thou.

Another issue could be your case headspace. Don't know what yours is, but it's always a possibility.

 

[Claluja]

Historically Fed match primers do not have history of not going off. As mentioned, either your primer is not seated deep enough or you have a headspace issue.
If you are willing to waste 10 or so primers, prime those 4 cases and 6 more and take them to your garage or outside and fire them, see if they all go off.
Did you try firing those 4 cases again, it sure looks like it to me?

Thanks for the comments. Headspace of fired brass for this rifle is 1.6265. Headspace of the 4 duds was 1.6245 (three of them) and 1.6230 (one of them). So appears like headspace was ok. But not sure if pulling the bullets may have resulted in a larger headspace number (the lowest number I haven't pulled the bullet yet). Should I still load the duds with primers and see if they fire?

Tried firing one of them again (first occurrence). Not the other three. 36 of my 40 rounds were all good that day - 4 duds.

Rifle is AI AX .308.

At this point, I'm thinking moisture issues at some point. But really have no idea.

Thanks again.

 

[spife7980]

Pretty sure at least some of the cases were not wet tumbled.

 

[357Max]

Three of the primers that failed to ignite in the pictures are in the middle, surrounded on opposite sides by fired primers and brand new primers from the same lot.

Why are the 3 that failed showing Yellow vs. the new from same lot are Red Primer compound???

Somethings fishy here. Missing compound? They looked like they'd all been hit plenty hard!

 

[Milo 2.5]

Why are the 3 that failed showing Yellow vs. the new from same lot are Red Primer compound???

Somethings fishy here. Missing compound? They looked like they'd all been hit plenty hard!

View attachment 7589763

Not primer compound, it is a coating. 210 M's red, 215M's purple, 205M standard gold. I would bet firing pin strike broke the coating up and was not captured during decapping.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Thanks for the comments. Headspace of fired brass for this rifle is 1.6265. Headspace of the 4 duds was 1.6245 (three of them) and 1.6230 (one of them). So appears like headspace was ok. But not sure if pulling the bullets may have resulted in a larger headspace number (the lowest number I haven't pulled the bullet yet). Should I still load the duds with primers and see if they fire?

Tried firing one of them again (first occurrence). Not the other three. 36 of my 40 rounds were all good that day - 4 duds.

Rifle is AI AX .308.

At this point, I'm thinking moisture issues at some point. But really have no idea.

Thanks again.

Does not sound like headspace. You have any pics of fired brass with primers still in? I am not familiar with AI rifles, but you don't hear anything thing about ignition systems on them.

 

[Claluja]

Really. 2 were wet tumbled w/o pins 2 weeks before primed. Other 2 were not cleaned at all. Got it?

 

[spife7980]

Really. 2 were wet tumbled w/o pins 2 weeks before primed. Other 2 were not cleaned at all. Got it?

Why are you not treating all your brass the same?

 

[918v]

Maybe those FP protrusion adjustment screws came loose and that’s causing the misfires.

 

[Claluja]

Not primer compound, it is a coating. 210 M's red, 215M's purple, 205M standard gold. I would bet firing pin strike broke the coating up and was not captured during decapping.

This is likely what occurred. The "powder" weighed about 0.2 to .3 more after bullets were pulled, so guessing some part of the primers broke off on strike and mixed with powder.

 

[Claluja]

Does not sound like headspace. You have any pics of fired brass with primers still in? I am not familiar with AI rifles, but you don't hear anything thing about ignition systems on them.

Pix of two fired cartridges with primers still in

 

[Milo 2.5]

Pix of two fired cartridges with primers still in

Unless the ones that did not go off were the last 4 attempted to be fired, I would revisit your primer seating technique. Sorry, but all indicators point to the primer being pushed forward upon strike.
Heck, load some more and go shoot, monitor and let us know.

 

[Tokay444]

Smash them with a hammer and see if they go off.
I feel like I’ve already said that.
Did they go off?

 

[Claluja]

Smash them with a hammer and see if they go off.
I feel like I’ve already said that.
Did they go off?

Hit one with hammer. Yes, it went off.

 

[spife7980]

Hit one with hammer. Yes, it went off.

That makes me want to say that it wasnt really seated all the way in the pocket.

One thing to check , make sure the bottomed out and then some isnt the tool itself bottoming out but the primer. Ive had that happen before.

 

[Tokay444]

So there you go.
Third time asking now... is your striker assembly full of lube?

 

[Claluja]

So there you go.
Third time asking now... is your striker assembly full of lube?

No

 

[Mike Casselton]

In your first post you have a pic of you holding four cases, primer up.
I mentioned that the primers look way too deep into the pockets.
Did you uniform the primer pockets on this brass?
Did you cut some of them too deep?

Either way. Measure the pocket depth on those cases vs some that fired correctly

 

[charlesleon]

Maybe humidity. I used small primer in Winter, no problem. one month ago, I got one not fired, last week, I got two not fired. We're getting more rains recently. I stored a couple of boxes primer in garage cabinet. I'm trying to figure out the problem myself.

 

[918v]

I once tried to deactivate primed cases by soaking them in a bucket of water. They still fired.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Were you eating chips while reloading i think you got guacamole in your primers.

 

[Bmghunter]

Just checking, but are those actually rifle primers? I had a buddy that accidentally loaded large pistol primers where it was suppose to be large rifle. The pistol primers fit but deeper in. Some of the cases in your photo do look like the primer is seated too deep, which could mean it's either not a rifle primer, or the pockets might be too deep.
I see your photo and description says rifle primer, but maybe you need to measure the primer cup depth and check if it's actually rifle primer depth. If it is correct, then check the pocket depth.

 

[Texasflyer]

I recently got some reloading supplies that had been in a garage for like 20 years. In it was 400 cci small rifle primers and 150 shotgun primers. They had gotten wet more than once at some point and i had to peel the cardboard off the boxes to even get a primer out. Some of the shotgun primers had rusted pretty bad even. They all fired. Pretty impressive.

 

[Jackfree]

I am thinking this is a bad batch of primers. Things happen sometimes and they cannot inspect every primer.

 

[Tokay444]

I am thinking this is a bad batch of primers. Things happen sometimes and they cannot inspect every primer.

They went off when he hit them with a hammer.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Check the primer pocket depth.

I've said it twice, and BMG hunter just brought it up.

It's pretty bad when people come looking for advice and then just totally ignore something that appears to be valid.

Any time you have a problem with something, you should eliminate the potential problems.
We know the primers work because they went off when hit with a hammer.

Check the pocket depth and check to make sure they are in fact rifle primers.

Pretty dang simple stuff.

 

[Claluja]

Someone needs to relax.

Original post said they were GM210Ms, which are rifle primers. Should there be any doubts, here are measurements of one of the removed duds.

Primer pockets for the cases at issue have the same depth as all my other lapua 308 brass.

 

[Mike Casselton]

You came here looking for advice and it's been given to you.

Being an ass is the quickest way to shut that help down.

 

[brianf]

Someone needs to relax.

Original post said they were GM210Ms, which are rifle primers. Should there be any doubts, here are measurements of one of the removed duds.

Primer pockets for the cases at issue have the same depth as all my other lapua 308 brass.

i think guys are getting pissy because your replies are not 100% complete

a measurement would help/needed

saying they are the same doesnt mean much, especially if your other are low/deep as well

 

[Milo 2.5]

i think guys are getting pissy because your replies are not 100% complete

a measurement would help/needed

saying they are the same doesnt mean much, especially if your other are low/deep as well

No reason to be pissy about anything here, he needs to learn on his own and has gotten a multitude of suggestions. From checking pocket depth to making sure fully seated primers<cut and dried when a hammer set one off.
3-4 yrs ago, both Lapua and Norma shipped some extremely deep primer pocket brass. I found 243, 6.5x47, and creed brass from Lapua that took 4 firings to even reach metal with a pocket uniformer. Maybe his are too. Not some insurmountable problem with a decent action.
The guy needs to figure out where his process failed him, and continuing to talk about it accomplishes little.