hi guys, wondering if anyone has had this problem, i have a rem 700 5r long action and recently upgraded the bolt with a ptg one piece bolt with the m16 extractor. the problem im having is the extractor functions fine as when the bolts out of the gun and im pressing a casing into the bolt face, but when i insert a casing into the chamber the extractor wont catch over the rim of the case and acts like there isnt enough clearance for the extractor to move over the rim of the shell, has any one experienced this problem and what can i do to fix it? i thought about removing the material from the top the extractor with a fine file but i dont wanna ruin the strength of the extractor.
Gunsmithing problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
- Thread starter loucksc3
- Start date
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
I think the barrel recess for the bolt has to be a larger dia.
John
I think the barrel recess for the bolt has to be a larger dia.
John
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
Yes sir, I had the same problem on a 300 WM build. I increased the diameter of the bolt nose recess, and that took care of the issue.
Yes sir, I had the same problem on a 300 WM build. I increased the diameter of the bolt nose recess, and that took care of the issue.
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cameron L</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have a rem 700 5r long action and recently upgraded the bolt with a ptg one piece bolt with the m16 extractor.</div></div>
You had a gunsmith headspace and fit the bolt, right?
If so, its his job to ensure it works. He'll take care of it.
It sounds like you didn't have a gunsmith headspace and fit it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cameron L</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have a rem 700 5r long action and recently upgraded the bolt with a ptg one piece bolt with the m16 extractor.</div></div>
You had a gunsmith headspace and fit the bolt, right?
If so, its his job to ensure it works. He'll take care of it.
It sounds like you didn't have a gunsmith headspace and fit it.
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
Tenon recess diameter needs to be bigger. Grinding on the extractor is not an option.
Tenon recess diameter needs to be bigger. Grinding on the extractor is not an option.
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
Widening the counterbore should "fix" the problem.
But if the extractor slot/retaining pin was milled too deep, THAT is the problem. Not saying that that's problem, cause I dont know. But everything should be checked out by a gunsmith.
EDITED ABOVE: said not milled deep enough, needs to be too deep.
If you didnt have a smith headspace/fit the bolt, take it to a smith. If you did, take it back to him. He'll know what to do.
Widening the counterbore should "fix" the problem.
But if the extractor slot/retaining pin was milled too deep, THAT is the problem. Not saying that that's problem, cause I dont know. But everything should be checked out by a gunsmith.
EDITED ABOVE: said not milled deep enough, needs to be too deep.
If you didnt have a smith headspace/fit the bolt, take it to a smith. If you did, take it back to him. He'll know what to do.
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Widening the counterbore should "fix" the problem.
But <span style="color: #FF0000">if the extractor slot/retaining pin wasn't mill deep enough, THAT is the problem</span>. Not saying that that's problem, cause I dont know. But everything should be checked out by a gunsmith.
If you didnt have a smith headspace/fit the bolt, take it to a smith. If you did, take it back to him. He'll know what to do. </div></div>
are you sure? the rim diameter of the case is a fixed dimension. the extractor thickness at the claw is a fixed dimension. that being said, i don't feel the depth of the slot or retaining pin has much to do with the issue at hand. i think the counterbore <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> the issue at hand and needs to be opened up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Widening the counterbore should "fix" the problem.
But <span style="color: #FF0000">if the extractor slot/retaining pin wasn't mill deep enough, THAT is the problem</span>. Not saying that that's problem, cause I dont know. But everything should be checked out by a gunsmith.
If you didnt have a smith headspace/fit the bolt, take it to a smith. If you did, take it back to him. He'll know what to do. </div></div>
are you sure? the rim diameter of the case is a fixed dimension. the extractor thickness at the claw is a fixed dimension. that being said, i don't feel the depth of the slot or retaining pin has much to do with the issue at hand. i think the counterbore <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> the issue at hand and needs to be opened up.
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
Cameron,
Based on what you've described;
If this is a standard caliber such as 308, 243 etc. then there are other issues at hand.
If this is a magnum caliber then the issue is the bolt nose recess. The standard and magnum OEM counter bore / bolt nose recess ID, is approx. .700" to .705" as supplied from Remington.
When up grading to the Mini M-16 style extractor for magnum rifles the counter bore ID needs to be .780" to .790" to allow the needed operating clearance of the extractor. This is a very simple and quick fix for any competent gunsmith, competent being the key word here though.
Cameron,
Based on what you've described;
If this is a standard caliber such as 308, 243 etc. then there are other issues at hand.
If this is a magnum caliber then the issue is the bolt nose recess. The standard and magnum OEM counter bore / bolt nose recess ID, is approx. .700" to .705" as supplied from Remington.
When up grading to the Mini M-16 style extractor for magnum rifles the counter bore ID needs to be .780" to .790" to allow the needed operating clearance of the extractor. This is a very simple and quick fix for any competent gunsmith, competent being the key word here though.
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you sure? the rim diameter of the case is a fixed dimension. the extractor thickness at the claw is a fixed dimension. that being said, i don't feel the depth of the slot or retaining pin has much to do with the issue at hand. </div></div>
Nothing is to say the person who made the bolt, made it right.
Just thinking of every possibility.
Haven't seen the rifle in hand.
Either the bolt is off,
Or the person who fit the bolt to the rifle didnt do a complete job.
The later is the problem. As either way, someone should have fit/headspaced the bolt to the rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you sure? the rim diameter of the case is a fixed dimension. the extractor thickness at the claw is a fixed dimension. that being said, i don't feel the depth of the slot or retaining pin has much to do with the issue at hand. </div></div>
Nothing is to say the person who made the bolt, made it right.
Just thinking of every possibility.
Haven't seen the rifle in hand.
Either the bolt is off,
Or the person who fit the bolt to the rifle didnt do a complete job.
The later is the problem. As either way, someone should have fit/headspaced the bolt to the rifle.
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
hey guys thanks for all the info, yes the rifle is a 300 win mag so its a magnum face bolt, when i bought the bolt from midway it said it was a drop in replacement, also when i took my gun to the smith to get my muzzle brake installed i had him check the timing and the headspace, he said everything was ok, at the time i didnt have the extractor yet because i had to order that directly from ptg. when i finally got the extractor last week i ran into the problem after i installed it. im not an expert on gunsmithing but from what i can see there isnt enough room on top of the front bridge to allow the extractor to move up and over the rim on the casing. thats why i thought maybe removing some materal from the extractor to let it move farther up but i dont wanna go that route, id rather have it done correctly. i think the problem is what wnroscoe said as he thought the counter bore had to be bigger, either way im going to take it back to the smith to have the problem fixed seeing that this is a bigger job then i can tackle. here are two pics of the bolt....
hey guys thanks for all the info, yes the rifle is a 300 win mag so its a magnum face bolt, when i bought the bolt from midway it said it was a drop in replacement, also when i took my gun to the smith to get my muzzle brake installed i had him check the timing and the headspace, he said everything was ok, at the time i didnt have the extractor yet because i had to order that directly from ptg. when i finally got the extractor last week i ran into the problem after i installed it. im not an expert on gunsmithing but from what i can see there isnt enough room on top of the front bridge to allow the extractor to move up and over the rim on the casing. thats why i thought maybe removing some materal from the extractor to let it move farther up but i dont wanna go that route, id rather have it done correctly. i think the problem is what wnroscoe said as he thought the counter bore had to be bigger, either way im going to take it back to the smith to have the problem fixed seeing that this is a bigger job then i can tackle. here are two pics of the bolt....
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
You DEFINITELY need to have the bolt counterbore opened up. Every bolt action with an M16 style extractor I've ever chambered required opening up the counterbore. I think the .780-.790 mentione earlier is about right. If you have a dial caliper it should be easy enough to measure. Measure the diameter of the bolt nose (across an area not cut for the extractor), then measure the diameter of the nose across the area with the extractor with a cartrige inserted so the extractor is at it's maximum height. Add the difference between the two to the second measurement. This would be the absolute minimum diameter needed to function and that probably wouldn't work as the case is pushed to one side of the bolt face during the second measurement. Basically add a minimum of .010" to that diameter and that will get you close to the bolt nose recess needed. The factory counterbore is probably around .705 or a tad under.
You DEFINITELY need to have the bolt counterbore opened up. Every bolt action with an M16 style extractor I've ever chambered required opening up the counterbore. I think the .780-.790 mentione earlier is about right. If you have a dial caliper it should be easy enough to measure. Measure the diameter of the bolt nose (across an area not cut for the extractor), then measure the diameter of the nose across the area with the extractor with a cartrige inserted so the extractor is at it's maximum height. Add the difference between the two to the second measurement. This would be the absolute minimum diameter needed to function and that probably wouldn't work as the case is pushed to one side of the bolt face during the second measurement. Basically add a minimum of .010" to that diameter and that will get you close to the bolt nose recess needed. The factory counterbore is probably around .705 or a tad under.
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you sure? the rim diameter of the case is a fixed dimension. </div></div>
Oops I had a brain fart and forgot he said it wouldn't snap over the cartridge rim. You are right. Couldnt be that the bolt is off with what he's describing. Again, brain fart.
It would be an extreme case for that to happen. But if the slot was milled deep enough, the nose of the extractor could touch the counterbore while trying to snap over the case rim.
OP:
Like everyones said and you figured out, it needs to go to a smith and the counter bore opened up and match to that bolt.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
are you sure? the rim diameter of the case is a fixed dimension. </div></div>
Oops I had a brain fart and forgot he said it wouldn't snap over the cartridge rim. You are right. Couldnt be that the bolt is off with what he's describing. Again, brain fart.
It would be an extreme case for that to happen. But if the slot was milled deep enough, the nose of the extractor could touch the counterbore while trying to snap over the case rim.
OP:
Like everyones said and you figured out, it needs to go to a smith and the counter bore opened up and match to that bolt.
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McFred</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would have to be a magnum bolt face for that to be the problem, right? With a normal 308 face there should be tons of room. </div></div>
Counterbore whether for a magnum or .473 cartridge should be .005-.010 as standard, without an M16 extractor.
So there still wouldnt be tons of room.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McFred</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would have to be a magnum bolt face for that to be the problem, right? With a normal 308 face there should be tons of room. </div></div>
Counterbore whether for a magnum or .473 cartridge should be .005-.010 as standard, without an M16 extractor.
So there still wouldnt be tons of room.
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
Pull your ejector.
Pull your extractor
Pull the fire control.
Attempt to chamber a piece of brass or dummy cartridge.
If the bolt rotates into battery with no resistance then you've demonstrated that at least that part of it ISN'T the problem.
If you dropped this bolt in from the box to the gun and didn't verify the headspace chances are your ok, BUT this is a dimension that should never be taken for granted. Check or have it checked before doing anything else.
Once that's done proceed.
insert the extractor and fit a case to the bolt face as if it were in the gun and chambered. Now attempt to chamber. If it goes in then (as many have stated) the extractor is likely hanging up on the counterbore as the lip of the extractor attempts to slide over the case rim.
Two solutions:
The right way: Pull the barrel and enlarge the counterbore
The "other" way: Grind on your new extractor until it works and hope it continues working.
Life can now go on.
Good luck.
C.
Pull your ejector.
Pull your extractor
Pull the fire control.
Attempt to chamber a piece of brass or dummy cartridge.
If the bolt rotates into battery with no resistance then you've demonstrated that at least that part of it ISN'T the problem.
If you dropped this bolt in from the box to the gun and didn't verify the headspace chances are your ok, BUT this is a dimension that should never be taken for granted. Check or have it checked before doing anything else.
Once that's done proceed.
insert the extractor and fit a case to the bolt face as if it were in the gun and chambered. Now attempt to chamber. If it goes in then (as many have stated) the extractor is likely hanging up on the counterbore as the lip of the extractor attempts to slide over the case rim.
Two solutions:
The right way: Pull the barrel and enlarge the counterbore
The "other" way: Grind on your new extractor until it works and hope it continues working.
Life can now go on.
Good luck.
C.
Re: problem with m16 extractor ptg bolt
I was told by PTG (who made 1 bolt) , Surgeon (who made another), and Badger (who makes the things) to open up to .785 when using an M16 extractor. Two 7 WSMs in a row now didn't want to run that way. .785 wasn't enough counterbore to get around the case and the ramp on the front of the extractor did not have sufficient depth to catch the edge of the rim so even when the counterbore was enlarged the extractor just ran into the back of the case instead of sliding up and around it. A buddy built his 300WM to the same dimensions using a PTG bolt and it worked just fine. Still trying to figure that one out.
A little time spent with a diamond file seems to have fixed the problem but I hate having to do that.
I was told by PTG (who made 1 bolt) , Surgeon (who made another), and Badger (who makes the things) to open up to .785 when using an M16 extractor. Two 7 WSMs in a row now didn't want to run that way. .785 wasn't enough counterbore to get around the case and the ramp on the front of the extractor did not have sufficient depth to catch the edge of the rim so even when the counterbore was enlarged the extractor just ran into the back of the case instead of sliding up and around it. A buddy built his 300WM to the same dimensions using a PTG bolt and it worked just fine. Still trying to figure that one out.
A little time spent with a diamond file seems to have fixed the problem but I hate having to do that.
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