Problem with reloads in AR

D

dangerdan87

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 12, 2009
523
12
Tyler, TX
#1
I've had some problems with the majority of my reloads. They all shoot and group perfectly, but the problem lies within cambering.
I must specify that this problem only exists with my reloads and does not happen at all with factory ammo. The rifles I am using are AR15s I built. The head space on the rifles are in spec with a go gauge.
The problem I am having is when a round chambers, its really tight and hard to eject the unfired round. Some times I have to slam the stock down while pulling the charging handle. Usually after cambering and extracting the unspent round, it chambers and extracts without a problem. The barrels I am using are chambered in Wylde and 5.56 NATO chambers.

I reload to these specs:
Case: 5.56 LC 08 or 07
Case length: 1.749-1.750
Bullet: 77gr SMK/70gr TSX
OAL: 2.255-2.260

I lightly chamfer the outside and inside of the case mouth so I wont scape off the thin copper jacket.

Any answers? thanks
 
#2
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

Can't help with the specifics of where in the reloading process you might find the problem - haven't been doing it long enough to be able to help troubleshoot.

But, one thing that another reloader turned me on to when I first started reloading was the JP Enterprises Wylde Case Gauge. This is a match grade .223 case gauge that checks case diameter in addition to headspace and min/max case length for the more precise match chamberings. It worked well for me because I knew if it fit the wylde case gauge, I'd have no problems chambering in a non-match grade chamber/barrel. This would at least help you check your rounds after reloading prior to getting any jammed up in your weapon.

http://www.jprifles.com/1.5.1.2_maint.php
 
#3
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

are you trying to crimp with your seating die at all?

This can cause the shoulder area to bulge ever so slightly & cause chambering issues. It may not look like it to the naked eye, but under close examination it might be your problem...

take a look at it... if it is the problem, report back & I'll tell ya how to fix it...
 
#4
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are you trying to crimp with your seating die at all?

This can cause the shoulder area to bulge ever so slightly & cause chambering issues. It may not look like it to the naked eye, but under close examination it might be your problem...

take a look at it... if it is the problem, report back & I'll tell ya how to fix it... </div></div>

Yup, take a look at this. I did this with a couple of rounds before I figured out what I was doing wrong.
 
#5
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

I have this problem with my DPMS 20" but not my others with 556 chambers. I found for it I had to buy a small base die and it solved all the problems. It looks like your using wylde chambers and 556 so you shouldnt have this problem. Its more than likely the right solution.
 
#7
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

My SBR does this. Turned out that when I resized my brass previously, the die was set to bump the shoulder back a couple of thousands for my other AR, not to what factory ammo is at, which was a difference of about 8 to 10 thousanths. Now I am having to go through the rest of the ammo I loaded and then next time I am going to resize ALL my brass to that of factory dimensions.
 
#8
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

check your die....
take an empty case... run it up and then screw your seating die down til you feel resistance... back it off 1/2 turn... then lock it down with the ring. This will ENSURE you are not inadvertently crimping or bulging the shoulder...


If this does not fix it... I would seriously look at your FL sizing die and ensure it is sizing all the way down...

a small base die may be in your future, if indeed you are FL sizing.
 
#12
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mscott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A friend of mine had that problem. It turned out that his sizing die was not screwed in far enough. It needs to bump the shell holder. </div></div>

What he said. I'm pulling this out of my backside here, but I think the difference between go and no-go on a .223 chamber is in the .003" range, not much. If it chambers tight, I wouldn't shoot it until I figgered it out. Undersizing like mscott said, or maybe you need a small base die, or maybe you've got some varnish in the chamber if you've been shooting mill surplus stuff like Wolf. Check your resizing die and go from there.

Good Luck,

Wes
 
#13
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My SBR does this. Turned out that when I resized my brass previously, the die was set to bump the shoulder back a couple of thousands for my other AR, not to what factory ammo is at, which was a difference of about 8 to 10 thousanths. Now I am having to go through the rest of the ammo I loaded and then next time I am going to resize ALL my brass to that of factory dimensions. </div></div>

Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about. The resizing die has to be set for the specific chamber that the ammunition is to be shot it.
 
#15
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

after thousands of reloads through my ar:

55gr fmj w/ cannelure
trimmed to 1.750" with oal 2.24"
-or-
trimmed to 1.757" for oal of 2.26"
24 gr. of imr4064

no problems, i always thought a crimp is a must for semi/full auto anything, i'd recommend that.

i ditto on checking the sizing die setup. like WIL above said,
only adding that the empty case is trimmed to spec.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">check your die....
take an empty case... run it up and then screw your seating die down til you feel resistance... back it off 1/2 turn... then lock it down with the ring. This will ENSURE you are not inadvertently crimping or bulging the shoulder...


</div></div>

the shoulder buldge will do it every time, even in bolts. try mic-ing a factory case at the shoulder and one that you've reloaded for a comparision. do it for the decapping and sizing stage and seating / crimping stage.
 
#16
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anachronism</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you trimming your brass? </div></div>

Yes, that is how I got the case length down to 1.750...
 
#18
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

Good points here, as usual. I have the same issue, but to a much lesser degree (maybe 1 in 50) it seems. My problem was first, case length. I'm going to reset my dies and hope it goes away, altogether.

Predator: That 4064 load for IMR 4064 seem a bit on the light side. My old Speer Manual list it as a starting load. How does it group. Using 25.5 with a 55 HPBT, 1:8 twist barrel.
 
#19
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

You might need a small base die. Most don't but maybe your the unlucky one.
shocked.gif
 
#20
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

Something to keep in mind... AR's tend to unlock while the case is still expanded (particularly in short/CAR configurations and/or when using 'hot' loads) and as such the cases can often end up stretched a bit to where a fired case won't fit (at least not easily) in the chamber they just came out of. Measuring a fired case and then setting the sizing die to just bump back the shoulder a smidge like on a bolt gun can get you into trouble sometimes... you can bump the shoulder 3-4 thou and still not have really set it back far enough. Loading for an auto-loader is probably one of the few situations I recommend actually screwing the die down to the shellholder like the instructions show. It's still possible to get a defective die that doesn't size down far enough, but unless you actually measure the base of the case web and find that its abnormally expanded, I wouldn't expect you to need a small base die. I've seen a number of people just use a SB die as a 'go-to' remedy, and then still wind up wondering why their cases don't chamber right.

YMMV,

Monte
 
#21
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

Military 5.56 chambers are fatter than .223 Remington and Wylde chambers. if you're not using a Small Base Die for all your brass then the ones shot in the fat military chambers are gonna be REALLY tight in your Wylde and .223 chambers.

If they're as tight as you're saying <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">you run the very real risk of an out-of-battery slam-fire</span></span> -- which could destroy the weapon and injure you if you drop a round in the chamber and hit the bolt catch (causing the relatively massive bolt carrier group to go forward; slam the round partially into the chamber but not far enough to lock the bolt; and set off your primer as inertia carries your firing pin forward).
 
#23
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

It sounds like you need a case gauge to set your sizing die.

Your headspace gauge tells you that there's nothing wrong with your rifle. The reason the ammo won't fit is that it was not "headspaced" properly by your sizing die--the neck is too far forward.

If you are not at least using a case gauge to set your sizing die, you're doing it wrong. There are other ways to do it, but all are more complicated than a sizing die and you'd be using those if you knew what you were doing.

It seems to me that in the last year or so since Obama got elected and the gun market went crazy, we have a bunch of new reloaders who aren't familiar with the process.

ALL neckdown cases must have their sizing die set with a case gauge or some type of measuring tool. It's not like a straight walled pistol case.
 
#24
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

A drop-in case gage will only help determine if the shoulder was set back for head-spacing -- it will not tell him if his case was properly sized above the extraction groove (he'll need to measure that with calipers and compare his unfired/virgin dimensions compared to fired and re-sized 5.56, Wylde, and if he has a commercial chamber, .223 brass).

A small base die will squeeze the case to closer-to-new dimensions than a full-size die.
 
#25
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

"A drop-in case gage will only help determine if the shoulder was set back for head-spacing "

Not true. If the case is expanded at the base where a normal press-based sizing die cannot size it then this will show up when you drop the fired case into a case gauge. The case will not drop in and stop on the shoulder - the base will hold it back.

I helped a friend with this very issue last week. He ended up with 116 rejected cases out of 500. The supplier of the 1x brass sent us 120 replacements.
 
#26
Re: Problem with reloads in AR

Sounds like a headspace problem to me. Measure the headspace of the factory rounds that fired fine in that AR and bump the shoulder back .003 to .005, the problem will probably be resolve. The only other problem might be, is if the brass was just purchase from a "Once fired brass" outlet. Where the brass was fired out of a full auto and the brass stretched because of the over sized chamber. So, when you size it down. It tends to spring back with minimum sizing.
 
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