Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

[sawgunner2001]

I'm fixin' to (hopefully) do a lot more shooting of 5.56x45mm blaster ammo and am thinking about upgrading to a progressive press for it. I can't quantify how much exactly, but I have a feeling that if I can spend less effort in loading the ammunition, I'll have more ammo to shoot; thus increasing the amount of rounds that I'll put downrange.

I currently load all my rifle ammo on a single stage press and all handgun ammo on a Dillon Square Deal B, so I am somewhat familiar with both single stage and progressive reloading techniques. I have used these techniques for about 5 years.

That being said, with rifle cartridges requiring a lubricant prior to full length sizing, then cleaning the lube off, then trimming/chamfering/deburring, all before seating a primer and charging the case and topping it off with a bullet, how efficient is a progressive loader when loading rifle cartridges? I currently use a motorized RCBS trimmer (wish I would have spent the money on a Giraud, but that's for another day).

My intention would be to sell the SDB and use the funds generated from it's sale to go towards, more than likely, a Hornady LnL AP. I would likely switch from Varget/4895 to a ball powder for my 5.56mm loads if I chose to upgrade to a progressive platform to load 5.56mm on. And obviously load my handgun ammo on the LnL. I'd likely still use the single stage to load other rifle calibers.

I guess this question could best be answered by someone who switched from a single stage press to a progressive for "mass produced" 5.56mm ammunition. Is there truly a significant time savings when upgrading to a progressive press for high volume rifle loading? If so, what is your process for case prep?

 

[244]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

A progressive press will save you time, quite a bit of time, in loading large quantities of practice ammo.

I have a LnL AP now, but used to use a single stage for everything.

For practice 5.56/.223 Rem case prep, I suggest:
1) Clean cases, inspect for damage
2) Remove crimp (if needed, must deprime first)
3) Trim, chamfer, and debur
4) Lube cases (I use a homebrew of 1 oz lanolin oil to 12 oz of 99% isopropyl alcohol) and allow to dry
5) Load on progressive press
6) Tumble for a few minutes to remove lube

Some may balk at tumbling loaded rounds, but it is the quickest way to remove the excess lube and there have been may who have tested loaded cartridges that were tumbled for several DAYS with no ill effect. You can wipe each one off individually if you prefer.

For lighter bullets, I've had good luck with AA2200. AA2460 is also a ball powder that would be better served with heavier bullets. There are several other spherical powders that would also work such as H225, BLC(2), and TAC. Power Pro 2000 MR wouldn't be the best for light bullets.

AR-Comp and IMR 8208 are extruded, but rather fine. Many have had good luck with them.

 

[magyarbetyar]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

Here is how I use my XL 650.

1) I have one toolhead that has only a de-capping die. I de-cap all my 223 first.

2) Stainless media tumble and clean.

3) Install 2nd toolhead that has Lee full length sizing die in station #1 and Dillon RT1200 case trimmer in station #4. Process all brass through this set up.

4) Quick run through stainlees media again (about 30-40 min). This cleans off lube and knocks off sharp edges from case mouth due to trimming.

5) Remove primer crimp via Dillon Super Swage 600 (modified for speed)

6) Insert toolhead #3. This has powder charge die in statiion #2, seater die in station #4 and factory crimp die in station #5.

Yes there area lot of tool heads but this is the way I like to do it. After each clean I check flash holes for stuck stainless pins and it is a good time to check the condition of brass and toss any that look suspect way before I get close to loading it.

 

[50APIT]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawgunner2001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there truly a significant time savings when upgrading to a progressive press for high volume rifle loading? If so, what is your process for case prep? </div></div>

Since you use an SDB you know how quickly you can load up handgun ammo with a auto-indexing press. Loading rifle ammo, once your brass is prepped, is just as quick. Additionally, if you get a case feeder for a Hornady LnL/Dillon 650, you will see an even bigger increase in production.

My load process looks like this:

Walnut tumble to clean brass

Lube brass

Run it through case prep toolhead which has a decapping die and dillon trim die with dillon rt1200 to trim.

Tumble clean brass to get lube off.

Run it through loading toolhead which has a decapping die (just to knock out any remaining media), powder die, powder check die, seating die, and crimp die.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

Dillon 650 with casefeeder

A ziplock bag or two filled with fired brass

A few squirts of lube, dump in case feeder.

Pull lever for 15 minutes --> deprimed, resized brass

Stainless tumble

Giraud trim

Dump in case feeder--> load ammo

About as easy as eating popcorn.

 

[1idCat]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

I have a RC and a LNLAP, and load .223 plinker rounds on the LNL. You have to load bottleneck cases in 2 passes. Here is my setup:

I throw the brass in the tumbler to clean up the range dirt.

Lube the cases. I use 1:12 Lanolin/Isohol in a ziploc bag.


The first pass on the LNL is this:

Station 1: Universal decapping die.

Station 3: Dillon 1200 power trimmer.

Station 5: Redding FL size die, backed off so that only the carbide expander is used.

Then back into the tumbler to remove the lube.



To load the brass, the LNL is setup like this.

Station 1: Universal decapper.

Station 2: Powder measure.

Station 3: Powder cop die.

Station 4: Bullet seating die.

Station 5: Lee Factory Crimp die.

Done.

I love the Dillon trimmer. Using it, I only have to handle the brass twice, once to size & trim, then to load. Makes it very sweet. It doesn't chamfer, but cuts square enough that after the expander smooths out the inside edge, it works fine even for flat base bullets.

 

[hofhine1]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

Depends on how much you actually want to shoot, or put away or whatever.

I have a 1050 Dillon in 223 so I'm all in, I buy my 223 brass for 2.10 bucks a pound on it's way to the scrap yard, which makes me give the guy a hundred and a ten for fifty pounds of range brass, which is about 3500 rounds, give or take.

I tumble them, put em on a big cookie sheet and spray them, pour them in the big blue bin on top and run them.

I'm running WC844 from Dan at hi-tech, bought about a five gallon bucket of pulldown 62's from Jake up at RMR a couple years ago at 6.5 cents a piece, and I run wolf SRM primers at 16.89 a thousand at my door from wideners.

Brass....3.3 cents
Powder...4.0 cents
Primer....1.7 cents
Projo.....6.5 cents

Based on that, I can afford to shoot all I want, bring my friends, their friends, sons, daughters etc and have a big old time and not worry about how much this is costing me.

Of course I bought when I was getting started, so I have a good stock now, and that makes some difference.

All depends on how far you want to go, if you get in, load up four or five thousand rounds, and sell everything to the next guy, you'll find it's a helluva lot cheaper than buying at any retail or mail order outlet.

Just my thoughts.

Sean

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

Thanks for the help, guys. I'm gonna casually attempt to sell my Dillon SDB locally (so I don't have to ship it and loose 1/4 of the money earned in doing so) and use the funds to upgrade to the LnL. I figure the SDB will net me around $350 or so, which "almost" pays for the LnL. The case feeder and RT1200 will come, but later.

What are good handgun dies for a "regular" press? I've got a set of Lee dies for 9mm that I used to use on a turret press, and I have no objection to using "cheap" as long as it works, but have heard reports that Lee dies are too short in the LnL. I think I sold my .45 ACP dies to a friend when I bought my SDB, so I need to buy at least one set of dies.

Thanks again for the suggestions, gents.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: magyarbetyar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is how I use my XL 650.

1) I have one toolhead that has only a de-capping die. I de-cap all my 223 first.

2) Stainless media tumble and clean.

3) Install 2nd toolhead that has Lee full length sizing die in station #1 and Dillon RT1200 case trimmer in station #4. Process all brass through this set up.

4) Quick run through stainlees media again (about 30-40 min). This cleans off lube and knocks off sharp edges from case mouth due to trimming.

5) Remove primer crimp via Dillon Super Swage 600 (modified for speed)

6) Insert toolhead #3. This has powder charge die in statiion #2, seater die in station #4 and factory crimp die in station #5.

Yes there area lot of tool heads but this is the way I like to do it. After each clean I check flash holes for stuck stainless pins and it is a good time to check the condition of brass and toss any that look suspect way before I get close to loading it. </div></div>
My process is similar but with only two tool heads. #1 has a depriming die and a RT1200 mounted on it. Some Dillon Spray lube on the cases and through the press to be deprimed, sized, and trimmed.

SS Pin Cleaned and a quick inspection. Crimped primer pockets get tossed in a bin for swaging. Non crimped another bin, ready to load.

On tool head #2 I use a Lee Collet Die on Station one. The sizing mandrel expands the necks which were not expanded in the size/trim process. The die is set so the collet just squeezes the case neck to remove any possible dinging or denting from the ss pin cleaning/tumbling.

The rest of the stations are filled with powder measure, powder check station, seater die and Lee Factory Crimp Die.

I like to keep boxes and boxes of bulk "processed" brass around so when I load I can load at least a case of bullets (3500 bullets) in a session.

 

[mk12bill]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

For blasting rounds,
tumble in corn cob, havent built a ss tumber yet,
lube with lano/iso mix
f/l-decap-prime
powder charge
seat bullet
throw into ammo can
Shoot!

 

[rg1911]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

Hmmm ... Now I feel lazy. My process for .223 in my Dillon 650 is:

1. Clean cases. (I use a home-made tumbler, crushed walnut shells and a dose of the blue Dillon case cleaner.)

2. Dump cases in my large RCBS tumbler, turn it on, give the cases several shots of Hornady One Shot case lube, and let it tumble for a minute to spread the lube evenly. (I use the Hornady lube because you do not have to remove it. I have experienced zero problems in bolt and semi-auto rifles and pistols.

3. Load tubes (each of which holds 25 .223 or 50 .45).

4. Load cartridges.

5. Shoot.

Unlike .30 Carbine, I've never had to trim .223 or .308 brass. And I only chamfer the necks the first time.

Cheers,
Richard

 

[Boogaloo]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

I have a 2 stage process for loading .223/5/56 on a Dillon 1050. I started out buying once fired lake city brass that came cleaned and polished already so that made life pretty sweet. The rest of my processes go like this:

Size/Trim tool head installed and set up.

I use a ziploc bag and spray dillon case lube in the bag, then massage the bag so that there is case lube covering every sqaure inch of the inside of the bag. Then I take about 100 cases and place them in the bag and massage the bag for about 30 seconds on a towel placed on my bench so that I can work the lube around all of the cases in the bag. then I dump them into the case feeder. I repeat that process until I have about 500 cases in my case feeder.

Station 1: F/L size/decap (not truly full length). I stop a few thou short so I can let the size die in the Dillon RT1200 trimmer bump the shoulder back the final amount. The way my brain works this seems like it may be a little easier on the brass. No proof of that however.

Station 2: Swage primer pocket.

Primer Station empty.

Station 5: RT1200 trimmer, trims the cases to my desired length (1.755)

Prior to loading, all of those trimmed and sized cases get inspected, and run through the RCBS case prep station to chamfer, debur and neck cleaning, as well as primer pocket uniforming and cleaning, deburing. Then into the tumbler to remove all case lube and brass shavings.

I process about 3000 cases at a time this way before switching tool heads to start loading.

On the 2nd pass through the press my stations are set up like this:

Station 1: universal decap die just to poke the flash hole clean of any cob media (I installed a carbide expander ball decap stem/pin in mine).

Station 2: swage is there but backed off slightly.

Station 3: primer

Station 4: Powder drop

Station 5: Powder check

Station 6: Bullet Seating (comp seating die)

Station 7: Taper crimp (very very light)

This is how I load lots and lots of 5.56 for my semi's and I have had very very good success doing it this way.....nice consistent chrono readings as well as satisfactory groups when I treat all my loads this way on the 1050. Plus I can load about 400 rounds or so an hour, taking it nice and easy, paying strict attention to consistent pulls of the handle and keeping a close watch on powder levels in each case prior to seating a bullet.

It is a pretty bad ass system that I am very well pleased with.

 

[Boxer1]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

I use a similar process to Turbo45 minus the Giraud instead I use a Little Crow WFT a lot cheaper.

 

[dlouie87]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

Off topic slightly but why do some have 2 separate tool heads (1 for deprime and the other for the rest of the work)?

 

[244]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

Blasting ammo doesn't have to be exceptionally accurate, so some will skip the size then trim "rule". If you needed to trim, then you could trim, chamfer, and debur and then run it through a progressive to load in one pass (assuming the case necks were not dented). If they didn't need to be trimmed you could just run it through after cleaning and lubing with a final cleaning of the finished rounds to remove the lube.

More accurate ammo should be cleaned, sized, and then trimmed/chamfer/deburred and other case preparations. Then you should clean again to remove lube and then load.

 

[Munson]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

I dont know if someone answered your question or not, but here goes...if you set up 2 different tool heads you have 1 that has the resizing/decapping die. After you resize the case, you then can clean it again, swage it if it needs it, and trim it if it needs trimming. Now your brass is processed and ready to reload. The other toolhead will have your powder die(which is also where you seat the primer), the bullet seating die, and crimp die. You can also set up a powder check here if you want. Hope that answers your question

 

[dlouie87]

Re: Progressive loading of rifle cartridges?

Thank you.