A friend is being issued an M14 for police dept use. The stock is badly worn, and he wants to change it. He is looking at Promag Archangel stocks. I have no experience with M14s in general. Any input on the stock?
- Thread starter doubletap66
- Start date
They are worthless imo, polymer doesnt belong on the m14 it flexes, plus its just a jae knock off anyway, better off with a nice usgi fibeglass stock, unless he has the coin for a ebr, or maybe a bedded mcmillan
ProMag ANYTHING = SHITE!!!
Their products are well-renowned as some of the largest piles of crap across the board, especially but not limited to their mags in particular. The Archangel M1A stock, at least the two examples I have seen, all suffered from some miserable QC. The finish was REALLY poor on one and both stocks didn't fit their respective receivers and trigger groups worth a damn. One was sent back before proceeding further for a full refund (minus S&H of course). The other, after be extensively hacked/ginded on/relieved, finally fit and seems to be "ok" but hardly what I'd call a "good" product by a long shot! Accuracy was unchanged going from the basic walnut stock to the Archangel in my observation.
Their products are well-renowned as some of the largest piles of crap across the board, especially but not limited to their mags in particular. The Archangel M1A stock, at least the two examples I have seen, all suffered from some miserable QC. The finish was REALLY poor on one and both stocks didn't fit their respective receivers and trigger groups worth a damn. One was sent back before proceeding further for a full refund (minus S&H of course). The other, after be extensively hacked/ginded on/relieved, finally fit and seems to be "ok" but hardly what I'd call a "good" product by a long shot! Accuracy was unchanged going from the basic walnut stock to the Archangel in my observation.
Is the M14 scoped, or is it being used with iron sights? If iron sights, the lightest, toughest stock is the USGI fiberglass. How bad is the existing stock? Does the trigger group lock into place with some tension, or does the trigger guard snap into place with no resistance? If it locks into place with some tension, maybe the stock can be "freshened" with a paint job, or refinishing if wood. If it snaps into place with no resistance, the stock needs bedding work
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Promag
It will be used with a scope. I don't know the specifics on the fit and finish. I will be leaving AZ next week, and will check it out when I get home. I would assume the iron sight/scope question refers to the cheek weld height. He does not want to dump a lot into this rifle, as he said that it still technically belongs to the military, and they may request it back at any time (although I think it unlikely).
It will be used with a scope. I don't know the specifics on the fit and finish. I will be leaving AZ next week, and will check it out when I get home. I would assume the iron sight/scope question refers to the cheek weld height. He does not want to dump a lot into this rifle, as he said that it still technically belongs to the military, and they may request it back at any time (although I think it unlikely).
If it "still technically belongs to the military" or someone other than your friend (dept issuing it, etc.), he'd best be damned sure that he can do ANYTHING to it before proceeding...especially with looking into ~$300 stocks/chassis for the rifle or other costly "upgrades." Many departments have VERY tight restrictions on what can/can't be done to issued firearms and this is very likely one of those situations. While generally I'm of the "tis better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission" mindset...its not worth getting your @$$ in a sling or otherwise hung out to dry.
If the dept will approve (and hell...even assist in paying for) an upgrade, I'd be inclined to look toward more "robust" and dependable solutions like the chassis systems from Sage/Troy/etc. or a quality McM stock (M2A/M3A). If he's left to his own resources to pay, then a quality bed job on a serviceable stock is likely the best course of action. If it just "looks like hell" but is mechanically sound (i.e. - no cracks, chunks missing from critical areas, etc.), then he'd likely be better off spending money to have the stock refinished/bedding than anything else at this point (at least without spending a considerable sum of money).
Shame on your friend for even considering it. I want to see this badly worn stock, my guess is its still functional but your friend wants to play dress up. Tell him to get an ar for playing Barbie and leave the m14 alone. If its really that bad a sage stock or a McMillan is how I would go.
Thanks for the info, gents. I will look at the rifle, and shoot it as is when I get home. Then we can determine the next step. My buddy was told that he could change the stock, or do whatever, but he could not massage the trigger. He just has to keep the old parts and re-assemble them if the rifle has to go back. And, his dept. is not going to kick in a dime on upgrades. They are sending him to a police sniper school in May with this rifle. Best of luck to him if we cannot get this thing to 1 MOA or less before the school. I am going to lend him my Tango 51 for the school if he can clear it with his dept.
Unless I somehow missed the part where your buddy is receiving an M21 or M25 in one of your posts above, you are both HALLUCINATING if you think you are going to get a bone stock M14 mil-surp hand-down for department issue to shoot at that level! Don't mean to be a downer, but just trying to be realistic about what you are up against, even with a new chassis/stock or a clean-up/bedding job trying to keep it "on the cheap" for this rifle. It is irresponsible for any department to issue him such a rifle and to expect those kinds of results, especially without giving him a dime or other assistance in getting the rifle prepped for service in the role that the dept apparently wants it to fill!!
Hell, you'd be lucky to get any stock M14/M1A, save some of the high-end precision or "specialty" rifles made using M1As as the foundation to consistently shoot at that level of accuracy, much less the rifle in question (at least the ones I have seen passed down from mil to dept use like in your present case). Check back in once you have a better idea of what, exactly, you are dealing with on this rifle because it could very well be a losing proposition before you even get out of the gate with it if he's in need of a MOA or better rifle for use in the role in question as a dept sniper.
Good luck and God speed! Sounds like you'll both need all the help you can get on this project.
I have three m1a rifles. multiple stocks. Mcmillan bedded for my match riflle, couple synthetic, boyds wood, old re worked GI wood , and a arch angel ( made by a side company under pro mag ownership) I was surprised of the accuracy increase with the archangel. Tried it with two rifles, tightened up my groups coming from the synthetic ( totally flimsy) and the gi wood. not as good as a bedded stock, It is also heavy. Shooting off hand I feel it is really uncomortable. for the price point I do not think it a bad stock. For a actual duty rifle I would skip it. I just think it is better then the credit it is given. For the price point I tried one out, It also kept me from ordering a JSE.........
My first post.......... thinking I may get wrecked.
My first post.......... thinking I may get wrecked.
Hi, I have a ArchAngel stock on my polytech. Mine just "WORKS". I have beat the heck out of this stock and love it. Accuracy is better than the Gi fiberglass stock I had (GI stock cracked during a trip in the hills....I didnt know that was possible) . I run the the trifecta of hated parts.1- Polytech m14s reworked by Smith ent..2- Archangel stock. 3- The dreaded UTG rail (got it for free and it's still solid) with swfa rings and a 10x56 millet.I will eventually change to a sage ebr stock though,but for less than 200$ it couldnt be beat.
Whatever you do, do not get a sage ebr stock. I would find a take off fiberglass stock and have it bedded. Then put a riser on it and a sadlak mount.
While in the army my unit had 10 and I trained another unit that had around 20, so I've been around enough to know what I'm talking about. They are designed terribly, they may shoot ok or they may not, then for no reason you can't hit the broad side of a barn. If you take it apart to clean it it will lose zero. If you don't locktite every screw it will literally shake its self apart. There is a barrel tension screw that is on the end of the forearm of the gun that must be set just right, this involves shooting group after group while slightly adjusting tension. Then if you take it apart to clean may or may not need adjusting. If you do locktite everything to hold it together you have to deal with locktite when you take it apart to clean.
That sucks, I have been wanting to build another m1a and use a sage on it. I may not use my rifles as hard as you army boys, but they see some hard use and it sounds like the sage isn't up to it. Last thing I need is my rifle losing zero after 3-4 days of horseback or ATV transport.
I just recently noticed the Troy on the psa website. Looked interesting.
600$ for the stripped chassis isn't bad, I have a box full of parts to put on it.
600$ for the stripped chassis isn't bad, I have a box full of parts to put on it.
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I've heard these are a bitch and a half to put together. Definitely not going to drop in like most bolt action chassis systems. I'm no expert but I researched it when I was considering an M1A. Suffice to say I own a large frame AR instead.
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I am not worried about having to fit it together, I am somewhat mechanically inclined. I have a large collection of rifles but I want to "modernize" an m1a but I don't want to tear apart my nice pre ban national match.
