Rifle Scopes PST Disappointment

#52
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nevada Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with the OP,send me a defective scope that I bought brand new,and thats the last one you will ever sell me period.
Its called competion... </div></div>

I don't think I follow competion.

Here's the thing fellas: You say that if you spent $800 on a scope and it showed up defective, that would be strikes 1, 2, and 3. You'd take your business elsewhere. Well just yesterday I read a few threads about a brand new Premier that was DOA as well as a couple issues with dust particles on the inner lenses of a Nightforce. But because YOUR Nightforce didn't show up broken, it's ok to use them? It's just luck of the draw. The guy who walks away from a NF because of one bad experience is missing out on a fantastic optic. They ALL break. They are all prone to failure. Get over it. Get it fixed and move on.
 
#53
Re: PST Disappointment

I have a question then.

Where do you draw the line? What happens when, for instance, you buy a $3k dollar optic, it breaks before you put a round on it, you contact the manufacturer for repairs, it doesn't take days or even weeks, it takes months and months before its resolved (assuming it gets resolved)?

I'm not swinging one way or another here. I'm just saying people's expectations are different. Some expect perfection from an $800 dollar optic right out of the box, some never expect it from a $3,000 dollar optic.

I think a lot of these expectations stem from the financial investment. And unfortunately, there is a direct correlation between financial investment and emotional investment.
 
#54
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a question then.

Where do you draw the line? What happens when, for instance, you buy a $3k dollar optic, it breaks before you put a round on it, you contact the manufacturer for repairs, it doesn't take days or even weeks, it takes months and months before its resolved (assuming it gets resolved)?

I'm not swinging one way or another here. I'm just saying people's expectations are different. Some expect perfection from an $800 dollar optic right out of the box, some never expect it from a $3,000 dollar optic.

I think a lot of these expectations stem from the financial investment. And unfortunately, there is a direct correlation between financial investment and emotional investment. </div></div>

I completely agree. No one wants to see anything they buy fail, whether it was $3 or $30,000. And the waits can be excruciating. But I also believe in giving a company a chance to make it right before moving on.

In my personal opinion, customer service will make or break my experience with a company. Whether it's a cell phone, cable provider, optics or a car I want to know that a company is going to continue to take care of me even after they get my money. Sometimes they do (Bushnell) and sometimes they don't (AT&T). I will continue to buy Bushnell products but I will never buy an AT&T product again.
 
#55
Re: PST Disappointment

I just sent back my 2 Vortex PSTs for a minor repair. It amounted to a few dust flecks and slightly rotated reticle. We are using these on 260rem XP-100 pistols and they generate a different type of torque due to being short, lightweight and a bit sharper recoil than a rifle. They sent prepaid postage, once received they had them one day and was back in the mail repaired and they even reinforced the reticle to try and counteract the sharper recoil twist we get.

The second video below my name shows the different type of recoil our guns generate. The light barrel XP my son is shooting has now been rebarreled to a heavy braked 260 and now sports the PST. I think most any rifle scope would be tested being used on these things. Mine don't appear to move much but does generate a sharp jump rearward and to the side. I'm sure if anything happens to the PSTs again Vortex will do their best to make it right again.

I'd say that is top notch service, things slip thru and they have no idea the types of guns we put them on or even how most end users use or abuse them. I'm more than happy with that service and will highly recommend these scopes to anyone that asks.

When I called I mentioned we had another match coming up soon and they said don't worry about that we'll have them back to you within a week. Great service, everything can break but it's how you're taken care of when there is a problem that makes a great company.

For the money I'm very pleased with the product.

Topstrap
 
#56
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">News flash:

A defective scope IS inferior to one that is not defective.

The OP apparently has several regular Viper scopes and they were not defective and thus had a direct comparison. </div></div>

So because his scope was defective, that must mean that all other PSTs are defective, and therefore his claim that the regular Vipers are better than the PSTs is valid?

What was I thinking, that makes perfect sense.
crazy.gif
</div></div>

Wow,
How about reading the original post.

The OP CLEARLY stated this (highlight is mine to help you find it):

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tulie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> They are much superior to <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline">this</span></span> PST in my opinion.</div></div>
 
#57
Re: PST Disappointment

This thread is getting to be a good laugh. The OP went off on an emotional and irrational rant that some have taken offense to. Got to love the things that get stirred up around here.

The OP waited 6 months on a product that was defective and then had a knee jerk reaction. I would be upset about the situation also. But simple fact of the matter is that he never gave Vortex the chance to make things right. Then comes right out and plainly makes a statement that because this one particular scope is a lemon then the entire line of optics is inferior. This shows a complete lack of logical thought. And while the OPs actions don't make much sense to most of us they are an acceptable resolution to the situation.

The OP simply needs to learn that scopes are mechanical devices constructed by men who are just as fallible as the rest of us (like any of us can say we never had a bad day at work where nothing went right). Thus they can and will break. You know I have had much more expensive devices break on me but rather returning the item and jumping on the internet and making ridiculous claims about the company/product I contacted the manufacturer and gave them the opportunity to correct the situation in an appropriate fashion.
 
#58
Re: PST Disappointment

I understand where both sides are coming from, but in all reality the OP should have had a more constructive post, and called Vortex to see what they could do. Instead, Now someone needs to call the Whambulance to take this guy away.
 
#59
Re: PST Disappointment

this thread CRACKS MY SHIT UP! its amazing to see first hand how the overall clique on here stick together. A guy gets a turd and sends it back, chooses to go a different route, big deal. BUT THEN all the guys that have been raving this yet to be seen product for months go all Aztec Warrior on the guy.

Kinda reminds me of a thread a few months ago where a guy spent close to 3,000 on a scope (i will leave the company name out, but HUGE following on this site) that was a turd. the outcome of his badmouthing that scope.....the thread was locked and deleted

kinda sounds like schoolyard kids picking their favorite team the week before the super bowl
 
#60
Re: PST Disappointment

It's because people or financially emotionally tied to their brand. It's almost like they are acting if they are sponsored or have stock in X brand company.
 
#61
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">News flash:

A defective scope IS inferior to one that is not defective.

The OP apparently has several regular Viper scopes and they were not defective and thus had a direct comparison. </div></div>

So because his scope was defective, that must mean that all other PSTs are defective, and therefore his claim that the regular Vipers are better than the PSTs is valid?

What was I thinking, that makes perfect sense.
crazy.gif
</div></div>

Wow,
How about reading the original post.

The OP CLEARLY stated this (highlight is mine to help you find it):

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tulie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> They are much superior to <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline">this</span></span> PST in my opinion.</div></div> </div></div>

How about the WHOLE original post. He goes on to say that he won't be going that route again, inferring that he'd be getting an inferior product due to his prior experience.

You can't make an honest judgement on an entire scope line based on one sample, that's all I'm saying. He got a defective scope and writes off that ENTIRE PST offering because of that ONE scope. What if he had bought an S&B or Hensoldt scope and said the same thing? Would you have still said not to give them a chance to get you a new scope?
 
#63
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">News flash:

A defective scope IS inferior to one that is not defective.

The OP apparently has several regular Viper scopes and they were not defective and thus had a direct comparison. </div></div>

So because his scope was defective, that must mean that all other PSTs are defective, and therefore his claim that the regular Vipers are better than the PSTs is valid?

What was I thinking, that makes perfect sense.
crazy.gif
</div></div>

Wow,
How about reading the original post.

The OP CLEARLY stated this (highlight is mine to help you find it):

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tulie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> They are much superior to <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline">this</span></span> PST in my opinion.</div></div> </div></div>

How about the WHOLE original post. He goes on to say that he won't be going that route again, inferring that he'd be getting an inferior product due to his prior experience.

You can't make an honest judgement on an entire scope line based on one sample, that's all I'm saying. He got a defective scope and writes off that ENTIRE PST offering because of that ONE scope. <span style="font-weight: bold">What if he had bought an S&B or Hensoldt scope and said the same thing? Would you have still said not to give them a chance to get you a new scope, that he'll be happy once they do? </span></div></div>

I was thinking the same thing. I think the PST is getting put under a microscope because it's new and it's the hot ticket right now.

I'll be the first one to admit when something I have is junk or subar. Is the PST everything I wanted it to be? Nope. For it's price point, though, it's a very good value and it gets the job done. Overhyped? Sure. But it's still a good piece of kit.

Would I have posted in this thread if it were a different brand? Maybe not. But my opinion would have been the same. At least contact the mfr, keep emotions out of it and make a constructive post with your criticisms.
 
#64
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this thread CRACKS MY SHIT UP! its amazing to see first hand how the overall clique on here stick together. A guy gets a turd and sends it back, chooses to go a different route, big deal. BUT THEN all the guys that have been raving this yet to be seen product for months go all Aztec Warrior on the guy.

Kinda reminds me of a thread a few months ago where a guy spent close to 3,000 grand on a scope (i will leave the company name out, but HUGE following on this site) that was a turd. the outcome of his badmouthing that scope.....the thread was locked and deleted

kinda sounds like schoolyard kids picking their favorite team the week before the super bowl</div></div>

+1 so very TRUE of this place
 
#65
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread is getting to be a good laugh. The OP went off on an emotional and irrational rant that some have taken offense to. Got to love the things that get stirred up around here.

The OP waited 6 months on a product that was defective and then had a knee jerk reaction. I would be upset about the situation also. But simple fact of the matter is that he never gave Vortex the chance to make things right. Then comes right out and plainly makes a statement that because this one particular scope is a lemon then the entire line of optics is inferior. This shows a complete lack of logical thought. And while the OPs actions don't make much sense to most of us they are an acceptable resolution to the situation.

The OP simply needs to learn that scopes are mechanical devices constructed by men who are just as fallible as the rest of us (like any of us can say we never had a bad day at work where nothing went right). Thus they can and will break. You know I have had much more expensive devices break on me but rather returning the item and jumping on the internet and making ridiculous claims about the company/product I contacted the manufacturer and gave them the opportunity to correct the situation in an appropriate fashion. </div></div>

Well said!
 
#67
Re: PST Disappointment

I wonder if Countersniper or even NightForce would send us a couple scopes to try for a few matches on our long range pistols to see how they would hold up? Then would they make it right knowing what we used them on and it might happen again?

It's been pretty entertaining to see this upper midrange priced scope being compared to scopes that cost a LOT more and still hold up pretty well. I guess the easiest thing to do for some to make them look bad is to compare it to something that costs twice as much. Same thing as Mustangs against Camaros against Challengers against whatever a persons favorite flavor might be.

Decent scope, great company, good value for the money. Snobs may not like them, elite shooters may not like them but they fill a niche for us mere mortals with limited funds that occasionally like to compete with decent equipment.

Topstrap
 
#68
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's been pretty entertaining to see this upper midrange priced scope being compared to scopes that cost a LOT more and still hold up pretty well. I guess the easiest thing to do for some to make them look bad is to compare it to something that costs twice as much. Same thing as Mustangs against Camaros against Challengers against whatever a persons favorite flavor might be.

Decent scope, great company, good value for the money. Snobs may not like them, elite shooters may not like them but they fill a niche for us mere mortals with limited funds that occasionally like to compete with decent equipment.</div></div>

+1 Well said
 
#69
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XxMerlinxX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">News flash:

A defective scope IS inferior to one that is not defective.

The OP apparently has several regular Viper scopes and they were not defective and thus had a direct comparison. </div></div>

So because his scope was defective, that must mean that all other PSTs are defective, and therefore his claim that the regular Vipers are better than the PSTs is valid?

What was I thinking, that makes perfect sense.
crazy.gif
</div></div>

Wow,
How about reading the original post.

The OP CLEARLY stated this (highlight is mine to help you find it):

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tulie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> They are much superior to <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline">this</span></span> PST in my opinion.</div></div> </div></div>

How about the WHOLE original post. He goes on to say that he won't be going that route again, inferring that he'd be getting an inferior product due to his prior experience.

You can't make an honest judgement on an entire scope line based on one sample, that's all I'm saying. He got a defective scope and writes off that ENTIRE PST offering because of that ONE scope. What if he had bought an S&B or Hensoldt scope and said the same thing? Would you have still said not to give them a chance to get you a new scope? </div></div>

Yes, he did say he was not going that route again, he NEVER said the entire line was inferior, that is YOU putting words or inference in his mouth.

For crying out loud, it is his choice, if he doesn't want to waste any more time with Vortex, that is up to him. It is his fucking money and his decision.

You come off as a fanboy that can not see faults that are there.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I do not own a Vortex scope, that does not mean that I would not consider one.
But why do you care if the OP has decided that he does not want to deal with vortex anymore?

Vortex has had some quality issues with the PST line, there is no denying that. Vortex would do everything in their power to make it right. There is no denying that either.
Some people do not want to give them a second chance and that is their right.
 
#70
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
For crying out loud, it is his choice, if he doesn't want to waste any more time with Vortex, that is up to him. It is his fucking money and his decision. </div></div>
So what? I somehow don't get an opinion because it's his money? If he didn't want people to comment on his actions then he shouldn't have posted them on a public message board for everyone to see and comment on.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You come off as a fanboy that can not see faults that are there.</div></div>
How??? Because I said he should let Vortex FIX the MISTAKE? Sure sounds like I'm acknowledging the fault to me. I would say that about very nearly any company though, not just Vortex.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't have a dog in this fight. I do not own a Vortex scope, that does not mean that I would not consider one.
But why do you care if the OP has decided that he does not want to deal with vortex anymore?</div></div>
Because I secretly have stock in Vortex and want them to do well. Good job, Colombo, you caught me.
 
#71
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if Countersniper or even NightForce would send us a couple scopes to try for a few matches on our long range pistols to see how they would hold up? Then would they make it right knowing what we used them on and it might happen again?

It's been pretty entertaining to see this upper midrange priced scope being compared to scopes that cost a LOT more and still hold up pretty well. I guess the easiest thing to do for some to make them look bad is to compare it to something that costs twice as much. Same thing as Mustangs against Camaros against Challengers against whatever a persons favorite flavor might be.

Decent scope, great company, good value for the money. Snobs may not like them, elite shooters may not like them but they fill a niche for us mere mortals with limited funds that occasionally like to compete with decent equipment.

Topstrap </div></div>

This should be the last post in this thread. I'm sure it's gonna get locked or fizzle out at some point but this sums it up.
 
#72
Re: PST Disappointment

WoW! I enjoy reading all these threads and undoubtedly hearing everyones opinions/experiences has made me alot more knowledgeable. That being said and in all fairness I have read countless threads on how great the PST's are and no one has had a problem with those threads. Now the OP is writing about a negative experience with a PST, one which would surely piss any of us off, and he gets blasted for it. It seems like that goes against what this is about or atleast what I try to take from these threads. Good or bad I want hear about it and draw my own conclusion later. What good will it be if all the threads were only positive and no one makes aware of the possible flaws of a product?
 
#73
Re: PST Disappointment

What a barbecue! The only thing that would have gotten his peepee whacked any worse is if he said he sent the PST back and ordered a Leupold.
No small wonder I don't post in the optics section. $850 dollars is more money to some than others. That kind of scratch tends to make some of us a bit emotional about our purchases.
 
#74
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NextGen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nebraska, what part of the state are you from?

Go Big Red! </div></div>

Amen! GO BIG RED!!!

I'm from Omaha.....you??
 
#75
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THEBEARRRRRRJEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But I also believe in giving a company a chance to make it right before moving on.</div></div>

I actually believe in giving them three chances.....

1) During their research
2) During their development
3) During their manufacturing process

wink.gif
 
#76
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nebraska</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THEBEARRRRRRJEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But I also believe in giving a company a chance to make it right before moving on.</div></div>

I actually believe in giving them three chances.....

1) During their research
2) During their development
3) During their manufacturing process

wink.gif
</div></div>

So if you buy a Schmidt & Bender and it arrives with an issue, you will never buy another Schmidt & Bender again?

When I say second chances, I mean giving them a chance by buying their product and if it's defective giving them a chance to fix it. But like I said, customer service will make or break my business relationship with a company. You can get a broken scope from any vendor and any manufacturer at any time. It's 100% random. Company A doesn't get shipped all the known defective ones because they sell less than Company B. I'd prefer, if it came down to it, to buy a scope from a company that will go above what's necessary to make it right.
 
#77
Re: PST Disappointment

I also think the hype could be biting them in the ass. Everyone compares em to scopes that cost twice the money, thus setting the bar unattainably high. Problem is, it's an $800 optic, not an $1,800 optic so Vortex doesn't have the luxury of giving every scope the white glove inspection before it gets shipped off.

We've almost tricked ourselves into thinking that this scope is better than it is. It is a tremendous value, but that doesn't make it as good or better than a top tier mfr. Just means you get a lot for your money.

Basically what I'm getting at is we misconstrue value and quality. You can't make a budget minded optic that has an Erek knob, unobtanium coated lenses, a Gen2x reticle, 500x zoom and the ability to survive a 30 caliber projectile fired through the main tube for $800.

I think we need to check ourselves and lower our expectations a bit. We have cake but I think someone misplaced the forks. It's just a good value optic. That's all.
 
#78
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T2CH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sooooo you are complaining about a guy who is complaining about a scope that was delivered 6 months late and did not ask this board for their opinions on what he should do because it was defective? Sound about right?
confused.gif

Yeah, I'll be sure to ask everyone here if I should return something before I do because it was your money I spent
crazy.gif


Seems logical to me... </div></div>

I've noticed that over the last couple of years, Sniper's Hide has become a difficult place to make mistakes... like, not do whatever the crowd instructs.
crazy.gif
 
#79
Re: PST Disappointment

I'll send a broken product back every time. I bought one of the new Weaver tacticles that was all the rave. It was broken on arrival. I ended up having to send it back to the manufacturer because the dealer would not take it back and refund me. Weaver Optics ended up giving me my money back, but was very dissapointed in the dealer. Junk is junk. So many people jumped on the PST band wagon before they were even available I'm sure they're just trying to defend a product with out knowing if its any good or not. I've read far to many complaints to waste my money on them. I bet there are plenty more complaints about the PST that aren't getting posted for fear of having to face the firing line as the OP did.
 
#80
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll send a broken product back every time. I bought one of the new Weaver tacticles that was all the rave. It was broken on arrival. I ended up having to send it back to the manufacturer because the dealer would not take it back and refund me. Weaver Optics ended up giving me my money back, but was very dissapointed in the dealer. Junk is junk. So many people jumped on the PST band wagon before they were even available I'm sure they're just trying to defend a product with out knowing if its any good or not. I've read far to many complaints to waste my money on them. I bet there are plenty more complaints about the PST that aren't getting posted for fear of having to face the firing line as the OP did. </div></div>

OR maybe people are sick of the hype and reading 6 threads a day about "PST vs Nightforce" etc so they bash it to knock people down a couple pegs.

Either way, doesn't matter to me because mine has functioned 100% so far so I can't attest to any of these issues. Sometimes a really good product can be a crap shoot when it comes to reliability. re: Range Rover. You either get a good one or you don't.
 
#81
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll send a broken product back every time. I bought one of the new Weaver tacticles that was all the rave. It was broken on arrival. I ended up having to send it back to the manufacturer because the dealer would not take it back and refund me. Weaver Optics ended up giving me my money back, but was very dissapointed in the dealer. Junk is junk. So many people jumped on the PST band wagon before they were even available I'm sure they're just trying to defend a product with out knowing if its any good or not. I've read far to many complaints to waste my money on them. I bet there are plenty more complaints about the PST that aren't getting posted for fear of having to face the firing line as the OP did. </div></div>

No one is upset because the OP is complaining about his PST scope. The issue at hand is that he never gave Vortex the opportunity to makes things right and then turns around and bashes the entire product line publicly. Had the OP taken given Vortex the chance to make things right and still not gotten resolution to the situation then his complaints would have merit.
 
#82
Re: PST Disappointment

People that say OP's original post contributed NOTHING are completely wrong. We are here on this board to learn and also get first hand experiences by shooters that buy these products first hand. So when OP gets a defective product it is another reinforcement to be more cautious etc. He also gave props to SWFA for their handling of the refund which makes me want to do business with them.

It is human nature to defend to the bone products that you own and trust and get negative reviews by other people because sub-consciously you dont want to think that you made the wrong decision in your purchase. I hear over and over again about Vortex amazing CS, but it is also the one company that continues to have "issues." Yes everybody has issues but for what ever reason Vortex continue to be a focal point in many aspects and lines.

I own 6 different NF scopes and fully understand that they are not Premier/S&B etc. However, they all have functioned 100% without any issues. Does that mean that NF has 100% QC? Of course not, but they are pretty close.
 
#83
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll send a broken product back every time. I bought one of the new Weaver tacticles that was all the rave. It was broken on arrival. I ended up having to send it back to the manufacturer because the dealer would not take it back and refund me. Weaver Optics ended up giving me my money back, but was very dissapointed in the dealer. Junk is junk. So many people jumped on the PST band wagon before they were even available I'm sure they're just trying to defend a product with out knowing if its any good or not. I've read far to many complaints to waste my money on them. I bet there are plenty more complaints about the PST that aren't getting posted for fear of having to face the firing line as the OP did. </div></div>

No one is upset because the OP is complaining about his PST scope. The issue at hand is that he never gave Vortex the opportunity to makes things right and then turns around and bashes the entire product line publicly. Had the OP taken given Vortex the chance to make things right and still not gotten resolution to the situation then his complaints would have merit.</div></div>

This makes no sense !! Why should he feel compeled to let the manufacturer make right what should have been right from the beginning. The fault here lies in the manufacturer and if the consumer is displeased enough to not want to continue using their product then that is his right. Additionally if he wishes to share his experience, good or bad, then he has provided others with a reference on the product.
 
#84
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cuffm4615</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll send a broken product back every time. I bought one of the new Weaver tacticles that was all the rave. It was broken on arrival. I ended up having to send it back to the manufacturer because the dealer would not take it back and refund me. Weaver Optics ended up giving me my money back, but was very dissapointed in the dealer. Junk is junk. So many people jumped on the PST band wagon before they were even available I'm sure they're just trying to defend a product with out knowing if its any good or not. I've read far to many complaints to waste my money on them. I bet there are plenty more complaints about the PST that aren't getting posted for fear of having to face the firing line as the OP did. </div></div>

No one is upset because the OP is complaining about his PST scope. The issue at hand is that he never gave Vortex the opportunity to makes things right and then turns around and bashes the entire product line publicly. Had the OP taken given Vortex the chance to make things right and still not gotten resolution to the situation then his complaints would have merit.</div></div>

This makes no sense !! Why should he feel compeled to let the manufacturer make right what should have been right from the beginning. The fault here lies in the manufacturer and if the consumer is displeased enough to not want to continue using their product then that is his right. Additionally if he wishes to share his experience, good or bad, then he has provided others with a reference on the product. </div></div>

That post should, in no way, shape or form, be considered a reference.

Look, it comes down to human error and machine error. Both exist. Humans make mistakes and machines fail; whether they go out of spec, parts wear out, etc.

You wanted an affordable scope with all the fixins? You got it. But don't be pissed because the company gave you exactly what you wanted. You cannot get top tier quality at this price point. Just physically, financially, and conceptually CANNOT happen. Now can everyone please just quit bitching?
 
#85
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cuffm4615</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll send a broken product back every time. I bought one of the new Weaver tacticles that was all the rave. It was broken on arrival. I ended up having to send it back to the manufacturer because the dealer would not take it back and refund me. Weaver Optics ended up giving me my money back, but was very dissapointed in the dealer. Junk is junk. So many people jumped on the PST band wagon before they were even available I'm sure they're just trying to defend a product with out knowing if its any good or not. I've read far to many complaints to waste my money on them. I bet there are plenty more complaints about the PST that aren't getting posted for fear of having to face the firing line as the OP did. </div></div>

No one is upset because the OP is complaining about his PST scope. The issue at hand is that he never gave Vortex the opportunity to makes things right and then turns around and bashes the entire product line publicly. Had the OP taken given Vortex the chance to make things right and still not gotten resolution to the situation then his complaints would have merit.</div></div>

This makes no sense !! Why should he feel compeled to let the manufacturer make right what should have been right from the beginning. The fault here lies in the manufacturer and if the consumer is displeased enough to not want to continue using their product then that is his right. Additionally if he wishes to share his experience, good or bad, then he has provided others with a reference on the product. </div></div>

Because that is how things work. Yes the product should have been right from the start, but simple fact of the matter is that this is just business. No matter what business your in things will get screwed up from time to time. Every business including optics manufacturers will error during production (this includes S&B, Hensoldt, Nightforce, Premier, etc.....) The measure of a company is not what mistakes they make rather what they do about the mistakes when they do happen.

Also no one has said the Vortex was not to blame. The fault clearly lies with them. And as I previously stated the OP did find an appropriate resolution with his actions. However there is no logic behind his actions, which is why most people here don't understand them.

The OP also has every right to share his experiences, I never said he did not. However the logic thing comes into play again. The OP made a rather broad statement that the previous Viper scopes where superior to the PST due to a single product sample. This thought process simply is not logical.

You know it is funny. Over the years I have spent a great deal of money of various optics, every time with the understanding that these devices are machines made by men, thus they can and will brake and malfunction. Thus when I had problems I didn't get made I just got the scope fixed or replaced. Getting bent out of shape over such a mundane issue really senseless.
 
#86
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THEBEARRRRRRJEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cuffm4615</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll send a broken product back every time. I bought one of the new Weaver tacticles that was all the rave. It was broken on arrival. I ended up having to send it back to the manufacturer because the dealer would not take it back and refund me. Weaver Optics ended up giving me my money back, but was very dissapointed in the dealer. Junk is junk. So many people jumped on the PST band wagon before they were even available I'm sure they're just trying to defend a product with out knowing if its any good or not. I've read far to many complaints to waste my money on them. I bet there are plenty more complaints about the PST that aren't getting posted for fear of having to face the firing line as the OP did. </div></div>

No one is upset because the OP is complaining about his PST scope. The issue at hand is that he never gave Vortex the opportunity to makes things right and then turns around and bashes the entire product line publicly. Had the OP taken given Vortex the chance to make things right and still not gotten resolution to the situation then his complaints would have merit.</div></div>

This makes no sense !! Why should he feel compeled to let the manufacturer make right what should have been right from the beginning. The fault here lies in the manufacturer and if the consumer is displeased enough to not want to continue using their product then that is his right. Additionally if he wishes to share his experience, good or bad, then he has provided others with a reference on the product. </div></div>

That post should, in no way, shape or form, be considered a reference.

Look, it comes down to human error and machine error. Both exist. Humans make mistakes and machines fail; whether they go out of spec, parts wear out, etc.

You wanted an affordable scope with all the fixins? You got it. But don't be pissed because the company gave you exactly what you wanted. You cannot get top tier quality at this price point. Just physically, financially, and conceptually CANNOT happen. Now can everyone please just quit bitching? </div></div>

But yet SWFA has gotten their SS line of scopes to perform really well at a competitive price point to that of the Vortex line of scopes. From what I have seen, Vortex scopes have a spotty quality record. Personally, I would hope to never have to use a companies customer service because my scope is broke. And I never have...
 
#87
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

But yet SWFA has gotten their SS line of scopes to perform really well at a competitive price point to that of the Vortex line of scopes. From what I have seen, Vortex scopes have a spotty quality record. Personally, I would hope to never have to use a companies customer service because my scope is broke. And I never have... </div></div>



Exactly. First of all an $850 scope is not a "cheap" scope by any means. Hell they put Bushnell copes on Barret 50BMG and were beat to shit and did just fine. I have seen better track record from Bushnell and Burris. Just because you buy a $18k Honda vs. $35k Acura doesnt mean you sign up automatically for the acceptance that more shit is gonna break down. Yes, you accept that it may have lesser features etc but nobody goes into a purchase saying, "...since i am buying the less expensive scope it is just ok to get product that doesnt even work right out of the box."
 
#88
Re: PST Disappointment

A little hurt/truth here.

Everyone wants a scope for 1000.00 or less that has all the same features of the 2500.00 plus scopes.

There are several ways to get to the lower price point:
1.Lower quality
2.Cut out number manufacturing inspecitions
3.off shore to different countries for lower wages of workers.
4. change retail model of how many people touch scope before end user, hence how many folks have to make a profit

It hass been said time and time again there is no free lunch. I commend Vortex for getting this to market and hope in the end these scopes work out. Obviously with lower price point you can expect more failures
 
#89
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have seen better track record from Bushnell and Burris. </div></div>

Since you are keeping score could you give it to us?
Burris, Bushnell, and the PST.
Just curious.
Thanks.
 
#90
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A little hurt/truth here.

Everyone wants a scope for 1000.00 or less that has all the same features of the 2500.00 plus scopes.

There are several ways to get to the lower price point:
1.Lower quality
2.Cut out number manufacturing inspecitions
3.off shore to different countries for lower wages of workers.
4. change retail model of how many people touch scope before end user, hence how many folks have to make a profit

It hass been said time and time again there is no free lunch. I commend Vortex for getting this to market and hope in the end these scopes work out. Obviously with lower price point you can expect more failures </div></div>

Hey now, as this thread has illustrated, this clearly isn't the place for that wacky stuff called "logic". Now let's get back to the bandwagoning and bashing the OP.
 
#92
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alpha6164</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen better track record from Bushnell and Burris.</div></div>

LOL I have a broken burris and a broken bushnell that would like to have a word with you
smile.gif
 
#93
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hey now, as this thread has illustrated, this clearly isn't the place for that wacky stuff called "logic". Now let's get back to the bandwagoning and bashing the OP. </div></div>

Don't forget to mention that the vortex PST is a POS and vortex sucks.
 
#94
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THEBEARRRRRRJEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I say second chances, I mean giving them a chance by buying their product and if it's defective giving them a chance to fix it.</div></div>

You obviously have WAY more patience and tolerance for imperfection than I do.

When I'm spending $800+ on an optic, I want it to show up 100% ready to go.....not ready to get the kinks worked out. If you're fine diddling with defects, that's great, but I have better things to do than be a company's secondary QC department!
 
#95
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unf'kin believable.

All this over "I got it after a long wait and it didn't work so I sent it back to where I bought it from".

</div></div>

Agreed
 
#96
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nebraska</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THEBEARRRRRRJEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I say second chances, I mean giving them a chance by buying their product and if it's defective giving them a chance to fix it.</div></div>

You obviously have WAY more patience and tolerance for imperfection than I do.

When I'm spending $800+ on an optic, I want it to show up 100% ready to go.....not ready to get the kinks worked out. If you're fine diddling with defects, that's great, but I have better things to do than be a company's secondary QC department! </div></div>

Also agreed
 
#97
Re: PST Disappointment

Every product is going to have issues at some point, weather it's a $4K optic or a $700 one.. question is if you are going to be the unlucky one to get "the bad one". Give them an opportunity to fix it.. and by that I mean the manufacture. If they can't take care of it, then look someplace else. You spend your hard earned money and deserve a quality product, you can't argue with that though.
 
#98
Re: PST Disappointment

What amuses me about this post is the "he didn't give them a chance to fix it" crap.

First, he is under no obligation to let them fix it. It was a long wait and he grew disgusted by the fact that it wasn't right.

Second, if you buy a microwave oven from wal-mart, take it home and find it doesn't work, do you call the manufacture and give them a chance to "make it right"? Or do you take it back to wally world and say "This POS doesn't work" and either get a refund or exchange for an identical make and model.

My money is on the latter. I am also willing to bet that most of you would also NOT choose an exchange of an identical make/model.

So, what the fuck is the difference? I mean. besides the fact that some of you seem to have some emotional attachment here.

Several of you keep insisting that the OP said all Vortex products are crap or that the entire PST line is crap. He did niether. He said nothing more than the one PST that he received was fucked up and that he would get a different brand of scope. That is all he said.
 
#99
Re: PST Disappointment

Well, I have a 6-24 FFP MRAD on the way today. It was a bit of an impulse buy because I was on a waiting list from last year and totally forgot about it. I got a call that some came in stock a couple of days ago and I called back and they one left.

While I was waiting, I bought a S&B 4-16x for my SPR. Love it, but I was just shooting it yesterday before I got the call about the PST and I was remarking that I miss the higher magnification that I'm used to on my bolt gun (S&B 5-25). So when the call came in for the 6-24, I agreed to buy it in a weak moment wanting more magnification.

Well, at least I'll have a spare scope.
 
#100
Re: PST Disappointment

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Second, if you buy a microwave oven from wal-mart, take it home and find it doesn't work, do you call the manufacture and give them a chance to "make it right"? Or do you take it back to wally world and say "This POS doesn't work" and either get a refund or exchange for an identical make and model.

My money is on the latter. I am also willing to bet that most of you would also NOT choose an exchange of an identical make/model.

So, what the fuck is the difference? I mean. besides the fact that some of you seem to have some emotional attachment here.

</div></div>

I think there is a difference between buying something at Walmart and buying from a quality firearms manufacturer whether it's a scope, gun , bipod or just about anything else. The difference is that many of these companies are actively on SH answering questions, sponsoring and supporting this forum and shooters like us.
They have names, contacts and a way to PM them anytime we like to help us out.
Now give me a microwave company you can say the same thing about and I'll agree with you.
In everyday life its easy to go the bring it back to Walmart route because you don't know anything about the company or its people so there's no reason to go that route. In this industry thankfully there is a difference, The manufacturer has a name to help you out and they do care that your happy.
 
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