Night Vision  Pvs-14 with bolt action rifle .308, true ?

***Ronin***

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I have heard that it can be used with bolt action rifle .308 but i have also read that its no-go..

Only 5.56 was allowed as highest caliber...

Can somebody enlight me...plz

Thank you...
 

IR-V

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Re: Pvs-14 with bolt action rifle .308, true ?

Recoil from the 5.56 / .223 is the max that the PVS-14 can sustain, regardless of whether the rifle it is mounted to is manual action or automatic.

IR-V
 

Victor-TNVC

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    Re: Pvs-14 with bolt action rifle .308, true ?

    Adding to what IR-V mentioned, After our many conversations with ITT and L3, both have stated based on their own testing, the PVS-14 body housings are not rated to mount onto anything higher than a 5.56, nor were they manufactured for this.

    One closer look at the 14's body housing will reveal how fragile the actual mounting hole is, which is only a 5 thread heli-coil held in with a THIN glue line. Granted, some have had some success (and so have we early on with 6.8 SPC's and some reported with .308's.) We've also have seen 3 occasions of busted body housing with stress line cracks. We all live and learn over the years.

    Since Class 1 IR lasers are out there in abundance from LDI, there is no reason not to head mount your 14, shoot from the high ready and let your IR laser do all the talking out to 100-150m. (Sometimes longer ranges based on your target size.)

    Vic
     

    Asm1

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    Re: Pvs-14 with bolt action rifle .308, true ?

    An ITT mx10160 2 years Old,The Guy beat it on 223,308 and A 338LAPUA..I told Him stop shooting it on the 338 my god!

    It just stoped working while head mounted Monday..Lights OUT..
     

    Asm1

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    Re: Pvs-14 with bolt action rifle .308, true ?

    Much better Option in my opinion is ring mounted over the JI-style..Most of the busted houseing at the helicoil thread is from cranking the NOB down To tight over and over..

    100-200 yards LASERS are where Its at ! <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snyper762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about running it on a monoloc device where the mounting hole is not used? </div></div>
     

    Victor-TNVC

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    Re: Pvs-14 with bolt action rifle .308, true ?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snyper762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about running it on a monoloc device where the mounting hole is not used? </div></div>

    Felt recoil, is felt recoil and hanging off the back of a mono-loc or any other device is still part of the gun. :)

    Edited, never seen a cracked housing from a overtightened J-arm...Not that strong I guess. :)..Some from high recoil, you bet.
     

    Travis S

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    Re: Pvs-14 with bolt action rifle .308, true ?

    Thanks Victor. I thought the problems were from housings cracking due to being mounted using the helicoil hole.
     

    Asm1

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    Re: Pvs-Rose14 with bolt action rifle .308, true ?



    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor-TNVC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snyper762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about running it on a monoloc device where the mounting hole is not used? </div></div>

    Felt recoil, is felt recoil and hanging off the back of a mono-loc or any other device is still part of the gun. :)

    Edited, never seen a cracked housing from a overtightened J-arm...Not that strong I guess. :)..<span style="color: #CC0000">Some from high recoil</span>, you bet. </div></div>

    Vic. Any Picks of your housings damage from recoil? what weapon used and round Count?.

    Everyone.
    The threaded insert is not very Robust when weapons mounted,its allot of stress in a small aria on a plastic Housing,bumping dropping or using it in stress,We don't always remember when it got Impacted to do the damage under night operations.

    Bottom Line they Really don't like being weapons mounted and the Housing are easy to bust with the weight of the weapon being used as a counter weight against the unit.When Ring Mounted it is Stronger this way,But still can be busted from the weight of the weapons being used against it.

    In all Honesty this is how I feel about this,once anyone checks there Kit for ZERO weapons mounting a PVS14 there should be Little Shooting with it weapons Mounted if using it for Hunting Anything.Pleasure shooting is Not a Good IDEA weapons Mounting a PVS14. Does It work yes,Is it the better Option NO.

    I like to weapons Mount a PVS14 to ZERO or check my Laser ZERO to the day optics ZERO,I Have just held it up to the day optic also, I don't need to Fire a round To ZERO the laser, LASERS are where its at,Unless You need to keep your location Quiet,I do very well 200 yards and in with kills using LASERS red with my Film/Filter and IR.

    I do like the Option that I can mount the PVS14 to my weapon JUST in case I need it.


    We have rounds down range weapons mounting pvs14 on Multiple calibers larger than 223 for pleasure,I don't have any busted from recoil damage when Ring Mounted,But Its not the best way to use it for sure.



     

    Victor-TNVC

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    Re: Pvs-Rose14 with bolt action rifle .308, true ?

    Wish I still had the those housings from 2-3 years ago. All went back to the manufacturer at that time. All with "reported" .308's, my guess one of them was with a MUCH higher cal bolt gun hanging off the back based on the heli-coil basically yanked out of its hole. All supposedly with 100 rounds or less.

    Granted, I have seen a thousand round count with a 14 housing with a 6.8SPC, I am one of those guys early on several years ago. After we saw the recoil body damaged units come in, we lived and learned. Why take the chance....Get those 14's on ones melon and now let the Class 1 IR lasers do the talking. You gain nothing by putting a 14 behind most MRDS's except the passive nature...Below

    Now for Mil applications we train with, or any others where remaining passive may be key, placing a 14 behind a MRDS may be a paramount solution not to broadcast ones position.

    In our NV training classes we show several ways to passively and actively aim with your NODS.

    I'll add one more point of interests....
    With lens locking ring mounting mount systems such as our TM-14 or others, this is also no safer way to mount either as I think you were alluding to as the weight and stress of the 14 is now not centrally located as is with a central hole position.

    The ring mounted system puts even more stress on the ring with the weight of the 14 pulling down the front end. Granted, we have not seen any locking ring damage, but I do not care to test the limits with anything more than a 5.56 either, nor does it make any sense to do so. :)

    Vic
     

    cj7hawk

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    Re: Pvs-Rose14 with bolt action rifle .308, true ?


    Rifle recoil is a complicated topic. Non-recoil rated NV is specified to 75g's... Recoil rated milspec tubes are specified to 500 G's for testing.

    Both tubes are made the same way, so HALO is the differentiator between what can safely take recoil and what can't if you're not sure how the tube was built, since HALO size has a proportional relationship to the distance between the photocathode and MCP, which is where recoil damage occurs. Recoil resistant tubes are typically HALO > 1.0mm.

    Using this as a guide, the generally accepted recoil levels are;

    <300 G's = SAFE with suitable tube.
    300-400 G's = Some risk.
    400-500 G's = Considerable risk.
    >500 G's = Do not even consider it.

    This is somewhat proportional, so a 5.56 at just over 300 G's is still considered safe and a 6.8 at just over 400 G's is considered to have some risk, but some sellers will support this.

    At >500 G's, 7.62 is considered a no-go area unless recoil is fully mitigated to safe levels.

    The final part of this puzzle is how do you determine how much recoil a rifle has? The term here is "Peak Recoil" and this is the maximum acceleration that a rifle undergoes during firing. Peak recoil occurs during the point in time at which peak chamber pressure occurs, since it's chamber pressure that causes the acceleration of the rifle at this point. Keep in mind that the bullet has not left the barrel, so using a muzzle break or moderator will have zero effect on peak acceleration.

    It can be calculated to. Force is proportional to the peak pressure in PSI calculated for the size of the "piston" area of the bullet being fired. The mass of the rifle is known ( assuming 4 Kg for a fully loaded typical rifle with NV attached ) and using the well known formula F=MA ( Force = Mass x Acceleration ) we can assume A=F/M. So Divide Force by Mass and we get acceleration. Convert units and divide by 9.8 ( Acceleration due to gravity at the surface of the earth ) and we get the total maximum peak acceleration of a rifle being fired. Cartridge peak pressure can be obtained from SAAMI data.

    One final comment before I post the table ( below ) is this. Keep in mind that a bolt-action rifle may be well lighter than a typical AR15 for which this table was calculated. Because Mass reduces recoil, if you have a light rifle ( eg, 2 Kg ) then you double the peak recoil...

    I'll do my best to repost a better version here when I'm back in Australia.

    Regards
    David

    Cartridge -- G's
    .17 Hornet -- 174
    .17 Mach 4 -- 197
    .17 Rem -- 203
    .204 Ruger -- 278
    .22 Short -- 115
    .22 Long -- 132
    .22 LR -- 132
    .22 WMRF -- 132
    5.6x35R -- 215
    .22 Hornet -- 241
    .218 Bee -- 248
    .22 Rem Jet -- 220
    .221 Rem -- 288
    5.6x50R -- 270
    0.22 -- 302
    .222 Mag. -- 333
    0.22 -- 350
    .219 Zip. -- 223
    .225 Win. -- 327
    .22-250 -- 357
    .220 Swift -- 340
    .223 WSSM -- 367
    5.6x61R v.H. -- 303
    5.6x52R -- 265
    .22 Sav. -- 263
    6x70R -- 240
    6x50R -- 405
    6x52R Bret. -- 304
    .243 WSSM -- 435
    .243 Win. -- 402
    6 Rem. -- 411
    .240 Wea. -- 418
    6x62 -- 392
    6x62R -- 392
    .240 Fl.NE -- 300
    .25-20 -- 276
    .25-20 S.S. -- 156
    .256 Win. -- 379
    .25-36 Marlin -- 220
    .25-35 -- 312
    .25 Rem. -- 255
    .250 Sav. -- 376
    .257 Rob. -- 404
    .25-06 -- 447
    .257 Wea -- 479
    6.5x52R -- 267
    6.5 Jap. -- 319
    6.5x50R -- 394
    6.5x70R -- 304
    6.5x52 Car. -- 304
    6.5x53R -- 342
    6.5x54 M-S -- 394
    6.5x54 Mauser -- 327
    .260 Rem -- 460
    6.5x55 -- 408
    6.5x58R -- 304
    6.5x57 -- 423
    6.5x58 Mauser -- 379
    6.5x57R -- 356
    6.5x72R -- 408
    6.5 Rem Mag -- 468
    .264 Win Mag -- 506
    6.8 SPC -- 480
    0.27 -- 537
    .270 WSM -- 537
    .270 Wea -- 529
    7x50R -- 456
    7-30 Wat. -- 422
    7x72R -- 353
    7-Aug -- 525
    7x57 -- 491
    7x57R -- 422
    7 Fl.Mag. -- 413
    7x65R -- 474
    7x75R v.H. -- 517
    .284 Win -- 585
    .280 Rem -- 533
    7 WSM -- 560
    7 Rem Mag -- 534
    7 Wea -- 551
    .280 Fl.NE -- 382
    .30 Carb. -- 469
    .30-357 AeT -- 449
    .30 Rem AR -- 561
    .30-30 -- 469
    .30 Rem -- 418
    .303 Sav -- 406
    .300 Sav -- 541
    .308 Marlin -- 506
    .30 Fl.Purdey -- 469
    .30-40 -- 480
    .307 Win -- 641
    .308 Win -- 667
    .30-06 -- 602
    .30 R Blaser -- 602
    .300 WSM -- 663
    .300 H&H -- 633
    .300 Win -- 653
    .30 Fl.Mag. -- 469
    .300 Wea -- 663
    .300 RUM -- 663
    .300 Lap.Mag. -- 694
    .303 Brit -- 552
    7.62x54R -- 582
    .32-20 -- 348
    8x72R -- 461
    .32-40 -- 395
    .32 Spl. -- 488
    .32 Rem -- 499
    8x50R -- 574
    8 Lebel -- 574
    8x57 JRS -- 540
    8x57 JS -- 641
    8x60RS -- 551
    8x64S -- 664
    8x65RS -- 664
    8x75RS -- 619
    8 Rem Mag -- 754
    0.32 -- 550
    .333 Riml.NE -- 604
    .338 Fed -- 803
    .338 Marlin -- 596
    .33 WCF -- 543
    .338-06 A-Sq. -- 842
    .338 Win -- 829
    .338 RUM -- 842
    0.35 -- 632
    .351 Win SL -- 42
    9 Luger -- 498
    9x57 -- 584
    9x57R -- 584
    .38 Spl -- 360
    .357 Mag -- 650
    .357 Max -- 694
    400/350 -- 744
    .350 No.2 -- 667
    .350 Mag Rigby -- 625
    .35 Rem -- 556
    .35 WCF -- 611
    .356 Win -- 862
    .358 Win -- 857
    .350 Rem Mag -- 861
    .35 Whelen -- 806
    9x53R -- 698
    .360 NE 2¼ -- 529
    9.3x72R -- 441
    9.3x57 -- 654
    9.3x62 -- 867
    9.3x64 -- 973
    9.3x74R -- 745
    9.3x65R -- 836
    .375 Win -- 1021
    .375 NE 2½ -- 510
    9.5x57 M-S -- 698
    .376 Steyr -- 994
    .375 H&H -- 989
    .375 Wea -- 1021
    .375 Fl.Mag. -- 749
    .369 NE -- 679
    .378 Wea -- 1037
    .38-55 -- 573
    .38-40 -- 278
    .40-82 Win -- 435
    .41 Rem Mag -- 839
    .400 Jef. -- 744
    450/400 3¼ -- 987
    .400 H&H -- 1161
    .405 WCF -- 670
    .416 Rem. -- 1276
    .416 Rigby -- 922
    .404 Jef. -- 981
    .44-40 -- 351
    .44 Spl -- 351
    .44 Rem Mag -- 900
    0.44 -- 1140
    .45 ACP -- 482
    .45 Colt -- 367
    .454 Casull -- 1332
    .45-70 -- 666
    .450 Mar -- 964
    .458 Win. -- 1475
    .458 Lott -- 1475
    .450 NE 3¼ -- 1010
    .450 No.2 NE -- 941
    .465 Belted -- 1520
    500/465 -- 1021
    .480 Ruger -- 1254
    .475 Linebaugh -- 1279
    .475 Turnbull -- 1075
    .470 NE -- 977
    .475 No.2 NE -- 1023
    .505 Gibbs -- 1128
    .500 Jef. -- 1361
    .500 NE 3" -- 1162
    .50 BMG -- 1531
    .577 3" NE -- 1359
    .600 NE -- 1470
    .700 NE -- 2223
    4 Bore Rifle -- 4082