PX Bullshit, Everyone is selling for themselves

[Squibbler]

It's the way it is with everything... You have 5-10% that take advantage or find the holes in the system. I like to apply the 80/20 rule. 80% of returns comes from 20% of customer base or on the opposite side 20% take up 80% of the effort/resources/energy. So, IMO respect is earned ....never bought.

--no buy-ins , requirement # of non PX posts only or requirement # of years logging in (whichever comes first),.... the moles won't have the persistence or patience. The problems will weed themselves out, clearing it for true hide members.

 

[47guy]

They are gonna force me to be a dick, that is very clear

How much of a dick is the question

If your going to show your dick in public there’s no sense only showing half of it

 

[jinxx4ever]

hope something works out, i've bought a shit ton of good stuff on here i couldn't find anywhere else at good prices. Some sellers have also given me some valueable info as the visit about the purchase has led to further discussions.

 

[deersniper]

Nothing but posts in the PX,

Stock Photos,

multiple (unused) copies of the same thing for sale

Oh, I have an FFL but I am not a business

The excuses are stacking up

I am really considering putting a limit on the PX with all the crap. Guys are taking advantage of the situation (granted my doing) and then racking up 100s of posts in just the PX and claiming, it's all their stuff.

Oh, I work for someone else, it's not mine, it's their stuff, I don't have anything, sure selling for others is against the rules, but that is not my problem.

So the question becomes do I start charging EVERYONE to post in order to make up for the few who are abusing the place.

I let a lot go, I don't force anything on people, but now its just a case of complete Bullshit.

Guys just want to use the site for sales, and I get it, it drives X amount of traffic, but really, you're abusing the fuck out of the place.

Gonna really think about limiting the amount of "SALES" one can have in the PX. We are already doing more work, more bitches the product was not as described, we have to moderate something we said we are not moderating, we have to get in the middle of BS he said, she said, arguments over $10s, it is lame. So way to ruin a good thing.

Can you leave the guys that sell ammo and parts and stuff way under msrp?

Lol but seriously the site is great the px is great please don't dont punish everyone for the actions of a few

 

[deersniper]

I have already posted that I will not buy anything from anyone whose only posts are to help them sell something. If I see something I might like if I am not already familiar with them I review posting history. I'll only buy from people if it sounds like the kind of people I might enjoy meeting at a range someday. Just here to sell yer crap---fo.

I had a zero post person respond to a wtb ad and I got a great deal on a rifle and scope. So non contributors can benefit the people here too

 

[Tucker301]

It's tricky to do in software.

I've never liked the stance of clamping down on all because of the abuses of the few.
That said, yes, we need some changes.

Scout had a nice feature where we could restrict anyone from any sub-forum. It was an easy way to toss out a troublemaker from a particular corner of the site, but allow them to continue and possibly redeem themselves in others.

If you begin charging a percentage like Ebay or Gunbroker, I think it opens a whole new can of worms regarding responsibility and liability.
The new addition to the rules regarding ethics gives us the discretion to take action without litigating and dissecting the already bloated rules and guidelines regarding the PX sections. If the ownership or the mods feel someone acted unethically, they're dealt with. Period.
I think the vast majority here have a good moral compass.

I'm fine with helping confirm seller and buyer locations by IP for concerned members, but I always add that our vision is limited, and that it is ultimately their responsibility to do the homework and deal confidently or walk away.

It's like any community, I suppose. When small towns grow into larger cities, the crime rates go up and cops are hard-pressed to keep up.

I will confess that when I look at a case, I weigh site-wide participation in the balance.
If every single post is PX, they don't get much leeway.

 

[Tucker301]

Afterthought - perhaps the software guys could develop a mandatory template?

Make
Model
Price
Location
Terms
Photos

Miss a spot on the form or no photos, and it's rejected.

 

[sabrecross]

As far as individual sales, I think limiting the number of sales posts per month makes the most sense.

 

[Tucker301]

I'll add one more thing - NO PX access until 3 months tenure and 100 posts.
Not either/or. Both criteria.
Not just thread starting, all of it. Closed doors, like the other limited sections.

 

[sabrecross]

As far as individual sales, limiting the number of monthly sales posts makes a lot of sense. I'm not really for mass punishment, did that enough in the military...

 

[1J04]

I'll add one more thing - NO PX access until 3 months tenure and 100 posts.
Not either/or. Both criteria.
Not just thread starting, all of it. Closed doors, like the other limited sections.

A year minimum and whatever # of posts you'd like to enforce. A year and this is a done deal today. No Buy In.
Edit : if a buy in is allowed, make it hurt.

 

[Tucker301]

It has to be both. I've nabbed a couple of scammers and spammers who sign up and come back months later.
I'd be fine with a year as well. I just didn't want to diminish my reputation as a kind and thoughtful mod and come off too harshly.

 

[Decoy]

A year minimum and whatever # of posts you'd like to enforce. A year and this is a done deal today. No Buy In.
Edit : if a buy in is allowed, make it hurt.

I agree a year min will help, no Bumping only a single add that you edit as needed, only x number of PX posts per month.

Of course it has always bothered me when people "Chime in" with BS commits who aren't interested in buying to drive up their posts.

 

[1J04]

And if ya wanna get real crazy, do a hard reset March 1st. PX gets wiped clean for EVERYBODY. Then EVERYONE starts their 1 year time period. I personally would miss the access but I'm all in here till I'm dead or banned for life. I love this fucking place and most of the people, but U'm more than willing to play the long game for the sake of our family here and the sanity of the HMFIC and all our Mods.

Do the hard reset and we all win in the end.

 

[Tucker301]

Damn! Talk about a membership drive!

 

[david walter]

Well, if I can throw in a few cents... I have bought a ton of stuff in the Reloading PX... always from 'members' and doesn't seem like the dealers hang there. Or maybe they do and I'm not astute enough to see it.

But nothing but good stuff there. Lots of happy transactions from great folks.

Only bought a few optics... always from good people. And I don't think any firearms here. Don't hang much in that section.

But the PX has been nothing but good people from my experience. And would be a shame if it turned FUBAR and if LL shut it down.

Limiting it to 'just dudes' may help. Banning 'bumping' may help?

Sorry it's turning into a PITA for you LL. But I can tell you that I have bought a boatload of components, dies, presses, etc. And made friends in the process. There is a value in a PX. Maybe just not in a gunnish 'Craigs List" where every clamhammer can come and turn it into their little Classified.

Bottom line... we trust your judgement. Do what you need to do! PX is a bonus... icing on the cake. Not the reason we come here.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Frank,

I’m like sirhr. Lots of good folks buying and selling stuff and no negative experiences.

I know I buy a ton of stuff from here, try it and if I like it, keep it. Otherwise, I repost and trade for something new to try.

I rarely posted until I retired from the Mil, now that my strongly-worded insights can’t affect my job.

I think commercial posters should we revisited to pay for their ads.

If I have to pay to post as an individual, I’ll do that.

Like all of the posters above, I appreciate the free classifieds, and all the info on the site.

 

[Veer_G]

And if ya wanna get real crazy, do a hard reset March 1st. PX gets wiped clean for EVERYBODY. Then EVERYONE starts their 1 year time period. I personally would miss the access but I'm all in here till I'm dead or banned for life. I love this fucking place and most of the people, but U'm more than willing to play the long game for the sake of our family here and the sanity of the HMFIC and all our Mods.

Do the hard reset and we all win in the end.

Ha. You just don't wanna catch hell from Momma, playing with the rent money. One year is crazy extreme.

 

[_Windrider_]

I also think that you guys need to draft a terms and conditions of the PX and it must be signed before you can participate. The hide needs to be very clear it’s not responsible for shit and you accept that. Buyer beware.

 

[Desert Raven]

And if ya wanna get real crazy, do a hard reset March 1st. PX gets wiped clean for EVERYBODY. Then EVERYONE starts their 1 year time period. I personally would miss the access but I'm all in here till I'm dead or banned for life. I love this fucking place and most of the people, but U'm more than willing to play the long game for the sake of our family here and the sanity of the HMFIC and all our Mods.

Do the hard reset and we all win in the end.

^^^^^^^^^
This.....exactly!

 

[W54/XM-388]

Perhaps while it's a bit more work, go with just smacking down the offenders.

I'm assuming you can see how many threads someone has in each forum.
So if they have like a whole page of posts, advertising every varied thing all the time pretty good chance they are doing it for a business and need the pay up or get out talk.

Another possible solution to make it a bit less friendly to commercial types drop shipping stuff they don't have is to possibly require all sales postings to have each of the pictures (and must have at least 1 picture), show the item with a paper also beside it in the picture saying:
Snipershide.com Member: xxxxxxxxx

That would also possibly help advertise the site a bit too when the images eventually get slurped into Google images for things etc.

 

[Engineer260]

A year minimum and whatever # of posts you'd like to enforce. A year and this is a done deal today. No Buy In.
Edit : if a buy in is allowed, make it hurt.

-By the time I reached the bottom of the first page of this thread I had come to the same conclusion. 1 year.

And if ya wanna get real crazy, do a hard reset March 1st. PX gets wiped clean for EVERYBODY. Then EVERYONE starts their 1 year time period.

correct me if i'm wrong on the hard reset but that would mean no sales for anyone for the next year?

 

[Basher]

Yeah, the whole idea of "starting over" is bull crap, IMO. That goes along the lines if punishing everyone. I mean, I'm here for life as well (unless Frank goes back to Scout! ), but let's not get carried away.

However, if the forum software can be set to filter out those who don't meet the criteria that's settled on (I say six months and 250 quality posts), then those folks get shut off. Send out a mass PM from the forum system to everyone explaining this, and let it roll.

Anyone who PMs asking about for sale access gets a month vacation. Do it again before access is gained, and it's three months. Third strike, you're out. Include this process in the site rules that must be agreed to before registering.

But if we do a hard reset, I'll be pissed. I'll still be here, but I'll be a grumpy old man for a period of that time, hahaha.

 

[1J04]

Ha. You just don't wanna catch hell from Momma, playing with the rent money. One year is crazy extreme.

That's exactly the point, but ok, 10 months. I'm dead serious. If we're here for the intended purpose of the site we'll take care of 90% of the riff raff in the long run and 100% of it March 1st.

And I won't go into foreclosure.

 

[1J04]

-By the time I reached the bottom of the first page of this thread I had come to the same conclusion. 1 year.




correct me if i'm wrong on the hard reset but that would mean no sales for anyone for the next year?

Yep, NOBODY! No more headache, toilet is flushed, and plenty of time to come up with a contingency plan.

 

[AIAW]

It has to be something that requires less man-power. For mods to have to do all of these "calculations, approvals and policing" proposed would be demanding. Automation is key. Falls back to the software/plugin issues mentioned earlier.

A clean slate may very well be a good start. Then again the problem is the people, not the content. Sounds like a familiar issue presented oppositely in the gun-grabbing media doesn't it?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Seems you have been down this road before long ago, with FNG's. Put their ass up for a vote to sell only after they have met XXX requirement. The membership will tell if their post are worth a shit or not. Hell look at Fieldcraft, that one section would weed out a shit load of folks not here for the true intent of the site.

 

[Lowlight]

I have to dig under the hood, hard.

I bet I can put limits on new members, it maybe a single buy in at a high price only gives you 30 day access vs the open access.

I have to make a short trip Monday so maybe I can begin working under the hood more

 

[1500varmint]

I'll add one more thing - NO PX access until 3 months tenure and 100 posts.
Not either/or. Both criteria.
Not just thread starting, all of it. Closed doors, like the other limited sections.

I think the time and post count combination is a great idea.

 

[powdahound76]

Dang. I need a drink.

And I say either 3-6 months and 100 posts.

Very clearly state if they look like a business posing as an individual, they get a 6 month ban. Do it Again, life ban.

No only FS postings. Must talk shit in the Pit and Maggies...... oh wait....... why are we here? ?

1J04, dont you have moving work to do?

 

[1J04]

I have to dig under the hood, hard.

I bet I can put limits on new members, it maybe a single buy in at a high price only gives you 30 day access vs the open access.

I have to make a short trip Monday so maybe I can begin working under the hood more

Easy fix with instant results are obtainable and that single buy in for FNG's idea is workable. I know ya don't have to go Nuclear, but I'm just into immediate fixes with immediate results. Again, thx for thinking out loud with us.

 

[Nik H]

Nothing but posts in the PX,

Stock Photos,

multiple (unused) copies of the same thing for sale

Oh, I have an FFL but I am not a business

The excuses are stacking up

I am really considering putting a limit on the PX with all the crap. Guys are taking advantage of the situation (granted my doing) and then racking up 100s of posts in just the PX and claiming, it's all their stuff.

Oh, I work for someone else, it's not mine, it's their stuff, I don't have anything, sure selling for others is against the rules, but that is not my problem.

So the question becomes do I start charging EVERYONE to post in order to make up for the few who are abusing the place.

I let a lot go, I don't force anything on people, but now its just a case of complete Bullshit.

Guys just want to use the site for sales, and I get it, it drives X amount of traffic, but really, you're abusing the fuck out of the place.

Gonna really think about limiting the amount of "SALES" one can have in the PX. We are already doing more work, more bitches the product was not as described, we have to moderate something we said we are not moderating, we have to get in the middle of BS he said, she said, arguments over $10s, it is lame. So way to ruin a good thing.

Frank,

It is your home and you should do what you think makes sense for your peace of mind. I have bought and sold in the PX a few times and have never had a problem with the method in place now.

Maybe set rules and place restrictions on members deemed to violate your rules. Everyone else is happy.

Never a fan of the fringe precipitating harsher rules for everyone else.

Just my 2 cents since you asked.

 

[Waorani]

Afterthought - perhaps the software guys could develop a mandatory template?

Make
Model
Price
Location
Terms
Photos

Miss a spot on the form or no photos, and it's rejected.

That's pretty much my check list to buy anything. Always surprises me how many sellers don't have location in profile or at least say where they're at.

Lots of great suggestions but if there's anything personally I can to do help, just axe!

 

[LawnMM]

I am sort of limited by the software, and I just don't have enough history with this software to know how I can manipulate it.

I can see about going to the guys how have done the custom skins for me and maybe find a company that excels in this software, but honestly, I am not completely sure.

Certain plugins and additions are a big time drain on the system and don't work right. Part of the problem with the old software was capability issues as most of this stuff is 3rd party. If that 3rd party stops supporting the plugin, the whole thing starts crashing and you end up chasing your tail.

I did bump the cost to $33, that seems to be a nice bridge between "yes and no" but perhaps it's not enough, and I need to limit it even further. The abuse is just too substantial to ignore

I totally like the idea of not allowing people to BUMP their posts, that is out of control, we have a 24-hour rule, which is routinely ignored. But every new idea brings on a new set of problems for the mods. I dont want them doing more, I want to automate as much as possible. I really feel they should do as little as possible and not have to Babysit the place. That is fucking stupid.

I may have to do, a $1 a post so buying a 101 posts costs you $100. That would definitely limit it as a lot of people are buying in.

Why not charge a percentage of the transaction to post it? Start taking a 10% cut of each transaction. Won't cost most guys much selling an item here and there but the fools running a business it will add up AND bring in some coin for you.

Or charge a fee per post in the sale sections, say $5 per post, no biggie for me, but for the fuck heads bumping posts every hour it'll add up.

 

[1J04]

Dang. I need a drink.

And I say either 3-6 months and 100 posts.

Very clearly state if they look like a business posing as an individual, they get a 6 month ban. Do it Again, life ban.

No only FS postings. Must talk shit in the Pit and Maggies...... oh wait....... why are we here? ?

1J04, dont you have moving work to do?

Trashed my fucking back last night. Taking day off and wrapping some out going packages I promised...

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I have to make a short trip Monday

Midget porn wrestling?

 

[Tree]

If you change the terms can we have some of us grandfathered in? I have done many deals also try to contribute where I can but started a new profile when it came back from Scout. Couldn't remember what it was before Scout. ?

 

[Tucker301]

Getting paid equates to a responsibility to handle issues and insure legalities. It's a Pandora's box of shit. I imagine it's a tightrope as it is. But payment is contract.

 

[Veer_G]

That's exactly the point, but ok, 10 months. I'm dead serious. If we're here for the intended purpose of the site we'll take care of 90% of the riff raff in the long run and 100% of it March 1st.

And I won't go into foreclosure.

"Hiiiiiii, 1J, this is your old pal Sal at Palmetto State Armory. Remember me? We're now sponsoring the Third World hungry with a portion of every bulk ammo sale. Won't you help?"

 

[_Windrider_]

That's pretty much my check list to buy anything. Always surprises me how many sellers don't have location in profile or at least say where they're at.

Lots of great suggestions but if there's anything personally I can to do help, just axe!

I would also add that a picture of the serial number (if applicable) is required.

 

[Diver160651]

I would also add that a picture of the serial number (if applicable) is required.

Guys, it has to be something easy Frank’s software can manage.

Nobody’s going to produce a bot that creates a lot of likes. But if they do, oh well, it will be one fucker not 25.

Using posts and likes, will drive people to create good content.

On a side-note, I see a lot of good Hide names in this thread already... hats off to you guys!!! Thanks for many great reads!!!!

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

So in terms of automation and attempting to reduce the legalities in regards to Snipers Hide being responsible.

Can the software be set up to randomly send the PX thread to 5 members for review before the PX thread is published?
If any of those 5 reject the PX thread (They must give reason for rejection) it gets sent to Mod for final say.
This would give members more of a direct role of "Policing Our Own".

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Basher]

Guys, it has to be something easy Franks software can manage.

Nobody’s going to produce a bot that creates a lot of likes and if it does oh well, it will be one fucker not 25.

Using posts and likes, will drive people to creat good content.

On a sidenote I see a lot of good Hide names in this thread already... hats off to you guys

That's because only us good guys give a crap about what happens in our "house," and we intend to be part of the solution rather than the problem in order to defend it.

 

[bigdaddydmd]

It is definitely an issue that is complex with no clear cut solution. It has been building for some time also. I lurked long before I joined and I would always go "window shopping" and dreaming in the PX and have seen the change over the years that Frank is speaking about. Seems like weekly there is a bad deal thread posted or Sherriff Tucker has to go knock heads over dumbasses pointing fingers at each other. How we get back to the days of old is unknow. This site may never be able to completely go back to those days, but the PX does have value here even today. Being able to advance your equipment or step up to the next level of gear at an "affordable" price once your skills get better is a wonderful addition. However it gets sorted its Frank's house.

I do like the length of time/post ideas floated previously. I don't buy much and haven't sold, but when I do buy I don't even bother in following up on the ad unless I recognize the name as a contributing poster who has been here awhile. There are more than a few names I have never met, but would feel comfortable mailing cash too for an item because their actions and length of time here speak of their character.

 

[Bradu]

I would be happy to quit seeing the same item or items bumped after a out a year of not selling. One would think after a few new threads on the same item that is bumped days after day, they would realize it's not going to sell or trade for that ???

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Maybe this is 'out there', and though there would be a 'little' work on LL's or a Mod's end, it might just be a bit of an answer:

Someone suggested signing a form, indemnifying the site. That is a great start to begin with, because LL has always said to 'keep things above-board' and stay legal and legit. Any and all lines crossed shall be reported to the pertaining authorities. (I'm adlibbing there, but that's the 'jist of what he's said in the past. Rightfully so)

But, take that one step further, and have a standard piece of paper ready for us all to fill out and mail in (to someone LL designates, probably Tucker)

site name,
real name,
real address
real phone number
real business affiliation, if any
real isp
real drivers license number even, if desired. Or some other Picture ID.

None of this information would be for public use, BUT,,, it would go far towards verifying a member, their legitimacy, as well as their particulars. Only those 'registered' to use the PX can enter the PX. No 'double accounts' or any crap like that.

And knowing that their personal information is being held, the scammers then also know that said information can be used against them. All the while releasing The Hide from any liability or responsibility or whatever-else legal-ese that needs to be put forth.

So my apologies to Tucker up front, for even suggesting that he be "the bearer of The Book" but that process will in-and-of-itself weed out a lot of the idiot scammers that aren't real contributors.

Follow that up with minimum 4 months membership, with a minimum of 25 valid (not wasteful) posts each month, THEN eligibility to request clearance into the PX.

And, whomever is a computerologist can figure out a way of cross-referencing Hide names and/or real names and/or real address's and whatnot. To further eliminate doubling.

Thoughts, or boo's?

 

[Bradu]

Maybe this is 'out there', and though there would be a 'little' work on LL's or a Mod's end, it might just be a bit of an answer:

Someone suggested signing a form, indemnifying the site. That is a great start to begin with, because LL has always said to 'keep things above-board' and stay legal and legit. Any and all lines crossed shall be reported to the pertaining authorities. (I'm adlibbing there, but that's the 'jist of what he's said in the past. Rightfully so)

But, take that one step further, and have a standard piece of paper ready for us all to fill out and mail in (to someone LL designates, probably Tucker)

site name,
real name,
real address
real phone number
real business affiliation, if any
real isp
real drivers license number even, if desired. Or some other Picture ID.

None of this information would be for public use, BUT,,, it would go far towards verifying a member, their legitimacy, as well as their particulars. Only those 'registered' to use the PX can enter the PX. No 'double accounts' or any crap like that.

And knowing that their personal information is being held, the scammers then also know that said information can be used against them. All the while releasing The Hide from any liability or responsibility or whatever-else legal-ese that needs to be put forth.

So my apologies to Tucker up front, for even suggesting that he be "the bearer of The Book" but that process will in-and-of-itself weed out a lot of the idiot scammers that aren't real contributors.

Follow that up with minimum 4 months membership, with a minimum of 25 valid (not wasteful) posts each month, THEN eligibility to request clearance into the PX.

And, whomever is a computerologist can figure out a way of cross-referencing Hide names and/or real names and/or real address's and whatnot. To further eliminate doubling.

Thoughts, or boo's?

It is a good idea but finding someone with the time and willingness to do that might be another thing. I would say that someone reputable that is willing to take the time to do that and keep records should be sent a small fee along with a similar fee to snipershide as well.

 

[bigdaddydmd]

My first thought regarding that is some scammer or dickwad will just submit a stolen drivers license and fake info. The site could have the information, but without being able to vet it what's the point? At that point you have so much manpower tied up in collecting information, vetting information, and storing it that it because prohibitive.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Well as long as whomever is getting all that information takes full responsibility for protection and privacy of the personally identifiable information they are receiving and is properly insured to cover losses if they loose control of that information.

 

[Tucker301]

I think Frank got some good ideas and feedback. Let's give him his time and see what settles. I think some subtle changes will make an appreciable difference.

 

[CMH]

I'm just into immediate fixes with immediate results.

If you have a problem that can be solved with judicious application of a nightstick, spit hood, or lightning ride, 1J04 is your man.