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Quality invevestments made by the Russians, and some help for an interesting American

Chandalar:

Thanks for the post. Totally amazing!!!

I first became aware of them (and added their SE Alpine and SE T-5000 to my Rifles page) in October 2012. I contacted ORSIS at that time inquiring about US distribution and they replied that is was under consideration.

Current products:

SE Alpine hunting rifle (incl 338 LM) - ORSIS.COM - ORSIS SE Alpine

SE T-5000 tactical rifle (incl 338 LM ) - ORSIS.COM - ORSIS SE T-5000 - the one mentioned in the video as being the take-off point for the new rifle.

The thing that surprises me the most is that there is NOTHING on their website about the news conference - which the YouTube page notes as occuring on October 11th.

As far as the future being competitive? Starting with the 408 CT rather than the 375 for targets out to 3000m...

His "official" fan site is http://stevenseagal.com/ [Zip info there on the deal with ORSIS but info on him since birth in Lansing, MI in 1952.]

Again, thanks much for the find.
 
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"Experts in the product testing laboratory monitor and test each batch of incoming raw material to be used in the production process. Most of the feedstock comes from leading producers in Germany, Austria and the United States. Some heavy-duty stainless steel is purchased in Russia... "...

It is a good thing that our most advanced high-temperature alloys cannot be exported to Russia, or other States with reputations for indescriminate distribution of technology that has potential military application. I am also somewhat relieved to read the twist-rate specifications on their 338.

We know where the tactical versions of this rifle are going to end up, and everything else that I see in those videos is concerning.
 
"Experts in the product testing laboratory monitor and test each batch of incoming raw material to be used in the production process. Most of the feedstock comes from leading producers in Germany, Austria and the United States. Some heavy-duty stainless steel is purchased in Russia... "...

It is a good thing that our most advanced high-temperature alloys cannot be exported to Russia, or other States with reputations for indescriminate distribution of technology that has potential military application. I am also somewhat relieved to read the twist-rate specifications on their 338.

We know where the tactical versions of this rifle are going to end up, and everything else that I see in those videos is concerning.
I get some peoples need to always sound super patriotic, but come on....

Russia has always had an over abundance of steel resources and because of this has generally been light years ahead in their metallurgical technologies. I remember, just a few years ago in an engineering class, our teacher was telling us how when he worked for the govt, they sent him to Russia because they had the most advance jet engine and the US had to buy them from a Russian company, to put in their rockets. Even with having the engine and seeing its design, USA could not copy it because of the metallurgical technology.

I'm not going to pretend to know exactly what is going on in the current state of affairs in metallurgy , however I doubt that Russian companies are loosing too much sleep over not being able to import USA's 'advance technology' metals. Suppressors are also not exportable, but that doesn't mean other countries don't have the "advance" technology.

Also, compared to actual military technologies being made today by USA/RUSSIA and others, the LR rifle is extremely simple( remember how we literally split atoms and weaponized that SEVENTY years ago). Even the much less advance armies of the world could easily acquire 'cutting edge' firearms. The reason certain groups don't have something is usually because of the money, not because they can't get it. It's a whole lot cheaper buying AK's instead of sniper rifles...

Anyways, just something to think about before becoming too worried about the guys in the video revolutionizing bad guys.
 
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Timelinex,

"I'm not going to pretend to know exactly what is going on in the current state of affairs in metallurgy , however I doubt that Russian companies are loosing too much sleep over not being able to import USA's 'advance technology' metals. Suppressors are also not exportable, but that doesn't mean other countries don't have the 'advance' technology."...

I am not talking about them "losing sleep", or even my "super patriotism". Sometimes Russia does make a leap ahead metallurgically... the armor on the Mi-24 attack helicopter comes to mind. What they have not been able to do over the recent course of modern history with any consistency is manufacture quality raw materials for a consumer market. Why do you think Orsis, a private enterprise, buys barrel stock from Germany, Austria, and the U.S. while sourcing "heavy duty stainless steel"(?) domestically?

Russians have a parallel record of selling some pretty destructive stuff to bad guys that do not limit their victims to Americans. "Price" is relative to "effectiveness". I am bothered that precision rifles will likely find their way into the hands of third-world thugs that will learn how to actually use them. These people still constitute a large carry-over from the old soviet trade clientele... and that is alarming even if we are only talking about imported barrel grade 416R, and 4150.

There are other alloys that are very problematic, and those are the ones which I was referring to.
 
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Timelinex,

"I'm not going to pretend to know exactly what is going on in the current state of affairs in metallurgy , however I doubt that Russian companies are loosing too much sleep over not being able to import USA's 'advance technology' metals. Suppressors are also not exportable, but that doesn't mean other countries don't have the 'advance' technology."...

I am not talking about them "losing sleep", or even my "super patriotism". Sometimes Russia does make a leap ahead metallurgically... the armor on the Mi-24 attack helicopter comes to mind. What they have not been able to do over the recent course of modern history with any consistency is manufacture quality raw materials for a consumer market. Why do you think Orsis, a private enterprise, buys barrel stock from Germany, Austria, and the U.S. while sourcing "heavy duty stainless steel"(?) domestically?

Russians have a parallel record of selling some pretty destructive stuff to bad guys that do not limit their victims to Americans. "Price" is relative to "effectiveness". I am bothered that precision rifles will likely find their way into the hands of third-world thugs that will learn how to actually use them. These people still constitute a large carry-over from the old soviet trade clientele... and that is alarming even if we are only talking about imported barrel grade 416R, and 4150.

There are other alloys that are very problematic, and those are the ones which I was referring to.

I'm not too worried about third world thugs learning to use long range precision rifles. most of them are illiterate savages anyways, and basic math is beyond them, let alone ranging equations and ballistic calculations. If the russians are going to arm idiots with these things, let them. It might actually make thugs easier to kill by making them thing they are real snipers. and as for materials, just beacause they have a bar of stainless steel, doesn't mean they can turn it into a precision rifled barrel for anything. I'm more worried about their shoulder mounted anti-air missles.
 
"... most of them are illiterate savages anyways, and basic math is beyond them, let alone ranging equations and ballistic calculations."...

InsidetheStorm,

For the most part, I agree with your characterization, but among these savages are Russian-educated Chechens, American-educated jihadist wannabes, spoiled Saudi rich kids, and Egyptain educated malcontents... even an Md. or two. They may not fare well against a trained counter-sniper, but they can do more damage to military, and native police forces than a suicidal zealot spraying the air with an AK in hopes that Allah will aim for them.

"And as for materials, just beacause they have a bar of stainless steel, doesn't mean they can turn it into a precision rifled barrel for anything."...

While true, it is also true that a precision barrel cannot be made without it, and Orsis is clearly purchasing western-sourced bar stock for precisely that purpose.

"I'm more worried about their shoulder mounted anti-air missles."...

According to some reports coming from the Russians, the U.S. may have already supplied those to Al Qaeda ... sort of like "Fast and Furious", but with a Middle-Eastern twist. I am not particularly happy about that either. It is not an either/or proposition.
 
Timelinex,

"I'm not going to pretend to know exactly what is going on in the current state of affairs in metallurgy , however I doubt that Russian companies are loosing too much sleep over not being able to import USA's 'advance technology' metals. Suppressors are also not exportable, but that doesn't mean other countries don't have the 'advance' technology."...






I am not talking about them "losing sleep", or even my "super patriotism". Sometimes Russia does make a leap ahead metallurgically... the armor on the Mi-24 attack helicopter comes to mind. What they have not been able to do over the recent course of modern history with any consistency is manufacture quality raw materials for a consumer market. Why do you think Orsis, a private enterprise, buys barrel stock from Germany, Austria, and the U.S. while sourcing "heavy duty stainless steel"(?) domestically?

Russians have a parallel record of selling some pretty destructive stuff to bad guys that do not limit their victims to Americans. "Price" is relative to "effectiveness". I am bothered that precision rifles will likely find their way into the hands of third-world thugs that will learn how to actually use them. These people still constitute a large carry-over from the old soviet trade clientele... and that is alarming even if we are only talking about imported barrel grade 416R, and 4150.

There are other alloys that are very problematic, and those are the ones which I was referring to.

And you really believe that the Third World and its "thugs" don't already have enough US supplied weaponry???? It is obviously a surprise to you but some Nations actually are way ahead of the US in their small arms capabillity.
 
Emouse,

"It is obviously a surprise to you but some Nations actually are way ahead of the US in their small arms capabillity."...

What do you mean by "capability"?
 
I'm not too worried about third world thugs learning to use long range precision rifles. most of them are illiterate savages anyways, and basic math is beyond them, let alone ranging equations and ballistic calculations. If the russians are going to arm idiots with these things, let them. It might actually make thugs easier to kill by making them thing they are real snipers. and as for materials, just beacause they have a bar of stainless steel, doesn't mean they can turn it into a precision rifled barrel for anything. I'm more worried about their shoulder mounted anti-air missles.

You can't be serious. It may be the "Third World", but it is also the seat of advanced mathematics. I also doubt that anyone procuring such a weapon with ill intent would put it in the hands of a "third world thug" any more than I'd worry about the armory at Fort Bragg handing out state of the art 300 Win Mag and 338 Lapua platforms to every grunt on base. This has got to be be the most short sighted and "Arrogant to be an American" statements I've ever read. If you don't believe that there are marksmen from the third world capable of exploiting this technology, just remember the longest shots in Afghanistan were made by Canadians. Eh?

Nice to see Seagal's hair plugs filling in so nice up front. Sort of reminds me of Eddie Munster. I watched an old Seagal flick last week when he was just starting to get those plugs and you could see each individual plug. They post edited the film to make every thing from his eyebrows up really dark, like every scene was shot in the back of a dive bar at midnight.

As far as "martial arts master" goes, I hope this weapons company comes by their accolades more honestly than Sensei (cough,ack) Seagal came by his.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
"I also doubt that anyone procuring such a weapon with ill intent would put it in the hands of a 'third world thug... ' "...

Just a quibble ZB, but I do not think thuggery, and a basic education, are inherently exclusive qualities. Savages are not necessarily illiterate...

Emouse,

I am still waiting for concise elaboration of what third-world nations are "way ahead" of the U.S. in small arms development. Do you even think before you post?
 
didn't they win "World sniper cup" in 2012 with their Orsis rifle? Sniperworldcup

Yes,...and the rifles placed first at this years International Police and Military World Chamionship in Hungary and again a week or so later at the SF International in Czech Rep. Also an indivudual 3rd//3rd/4th and 6th place at the McQueen Sniper Cup at Bisley.

Shoots rings round an AIAW.
 
I wonder where Seagal got his "several 338 Lapua-Norma Magnum rifles" that he mentions at 6:30 in the third video. That's a new one to me. I guess these super-ninja actors can get things us mere mortals can't even imagine. <barf>
 
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I wonder where Seagal got his "several 338 Lapua-Norma Magnum rifles" that he mentions at 6:30 in the third video. That's a new one to me. I guess these super-ninja actors can get things us mere mortals can't even imagine. <barf>

He has these because he's a "shootest". Only a shootest has Lapua Norma magnums.
 
Long range shootist :p
He lives in Mt Shasta area, we see him downtown with his entourage every now and then... Pretty cool dude actually!
 
I think he'd look less out-of-place in a black leather jacket. The green looks a little casual.
 
I'm not too worried about third world thugs learning to use long range precision rifles. most of them are illiterate savages anyways, and basic math is beyond them, let alone ranging equations and ballistic calculations. If the russians are going to arm idiots with these things, let them. It might actually make thugs easier to kill by making them thing they are real snipers. and as for materials, just beacause they have a bar of stainless steel, doesn't mean they can turn it into a precision rifled barrel for anything. I'm more worried about their shoulder mounted anti-air missles.

You apparently have no clue whatsoever about what your talking about.
Illiterate savages because they are not from the west?
Really should get more around in the world, or dont open your mouth about something you obviously know nothing about.
If your talking about the worst parts of Africa, and the average Taliban that are normally farmers and such, then yes you are mostly right.
But there is a lot of highly educated, and for that sake well trained personell in the third world too.
India, China, Saudi arabia, Israel, parts of the old soviet union etc.
And if you think they will not make an effort to learn how to use such weapons then you are terribly wrong.
Besides from the current ongoing conflicts, a lot of well educated muslims born and raised in Europe is travelling to conflict zones, because we European are stupid enough to let in anyone that wants to go here, usually don't even check they're background or who they are even.
And if you go to the Balkans etc you will again see highly trained military personell.

Fair enough to be Patriotic, but underestimating others without knowing what you are talking about is just stupid.
 
You apparently have no clue whatsoever about what your talking about.
Illiterate savages because they are not from the west?
Really should get more around in the world, or dont open your mouth about something you obviously know nothing about.
If your talking about the worst parts of Africa, and the average Taliban that are normally farmers and such, then yes you are mostly right.
But there is a lot of highly educated, and for that sake well trained personell in the third world too.
India, China, Saudi arabia, Israel, parts of the old soviet union etc.
And if you think they will not make an effort to learn how to use such weapons then you are terribly wrong.
Besides from the current ongoing conflicts, a lot of well educated muslims born and raised in Europe is travelling to conflict zones, because we European are stupid enough to let in anyone that wants to go here, usually don't even check they're background or who they are even.
And if you go to the Balkans etc you will again see highly trained military personell.

Fair enough to be Patriotic, but underestimating others without knowing what you are talking about is just stupid.


:D Brilliantly put.
 
"Its interesting that he couldn't find an American company that 'fit' his needs."...

I just had an extended conversation with an associate who claims an American company, that advertises the use of CNC rifling machines, took $500,000 to deliver a working example to Russia which incorporates pirated Krieger in-house methods. I am wondering out loud if Orsis has that machine on their shop floor. Anyone else here know anything about the story?
 
Pure bullshit Noel,....If you bothered to do a litle "research" you would know that the Orsis tooling is state of the art swiss and german built along with ruski research institute input.

Your "colleague" should also have known that under ITAR transfer of such tooling from the US would have not been granted export permission LOL.
 
Do you have documentation supporting that Emouse? I would be genuinely interested in seeing it. Other than Border (sourced USA technology, and NDA protected), what other European company has the know-how to build the machine, and tooling, for precision cut-rifled barrels?
 
Border aren't currently doing business,...aside from that they had their button machine made in the UK by Arthur Smith to his original design. Cut rifling was done on refurbished Pratt and Whitney machines. No rocket science there.

If you really want to know more about production at Orsis write and ask them?

By taking classic English machine tools for single-point cutting, retrofitting them and developing an original computerized control system, Promtechnologies experts managed to achieve a radically new technology. This approach makes it possible to obtain a virtually ideal bore: deep groove precision less than 0.001 mm, and rifling pitch precision of 0.04 mm. Surface finishing for rifling marks reaches Rz 0.16 microns, and Rz 0.8 microns for grooves. Barrels manufactured using this technology are regarded as a work of engineering art, and are considered to be among the best in the world. The Promtechnologies Moscow-based weapons production facility is one of the first in Europe to manufacture high-precision rifle barrels using the single-point cutting method on CNC machine tools.

But then maybe you won't write them as they are far too backward for you to want talk to? Your comments about those outside of the US are frankly laughable. You make yourself look like an "flag waving arsehat" in writing about the world you have no experience of.
 
Emouse,

I thought you had some solid information on the German, and Swiss companies. Do you?

Are you able to produce those tolerances on a "refurbished Pratt & Whitney"?
 
Emouse,

I thought you had some solid information on the German, and Swiss companies. Do you?

Are you able to produce those tolerances on a "refurbished Pratt & Whitney"?

Noel,...perhaps if you presented yourself differently rather than insulting anyone not "american" enough for you, then we would be happy to share information etc. I have no interest in doing your work for you.

If you want to know what Orsis and others are doing then ask them. Good luck with that.
 
Emouse,

When you make silly statements under the guise of urbane contempt, don't get upset if someone calls you out.
 
Emouse,

When you make silly statements under the guise of urbane contempt, don't get upset if someone calls you out.

Who's upset?

You got called out buddy.

You have zero knowledge of the outside world and make sweeping statements on how backward the rest of the world that you haven't seen is.

Get over it and carry on scribbling on forums while us backward folks make bows and arrows LOL.