Question about neck sizing.

[wmn2]

I'm new to reloading and today I started working up loads for my .308 using the 178 AMAX. My question is this, I neck sized 65 pieces of brass that has been once fired in my rifle. Upon starting to seat the bullet, over 50% of them, the bullet falls right into the brass. I took them and ran them all trough a full-length sizing die and the problem went away. What would cause this? My understanding is once the brass is shot in your rifle, it's better to just neck size because the brass is now fit for YOUR rifle and will perform better.

Also, with the 178, I found online that with imr4064, the minimum charge is 34 grins and the maximum is 41.3. Does this sound correct? I was thinking of starting at 35 and working my way up to 41 in .5 increments and once u narrow down what my rifle likes, break it down I to smaller increments. Is it have the Hornady manual so I'm hoping maybe one of you do and can clear this up for me.

Again, I'm new at this so please bear with me.

 

[woojos]

What dies are you using?

 

[wmn2]

The lee ultimate die set. This one comes in the yellow case instead of red.

 

[mdmp5]

The paradigm that neck sized brass performs better than fl sized brass is old school, and while it is a viable theory, it has been shown to be inferior to fl sizing. Neck sizing alone causes reliability issues and doesn't add anything to accuracy. This has been proven by others, as well as myself.

What you are seeing is that your neck die is not imparting enough neck tension, while your fl die is. Are you using an expander ball? This is often the reason for inadequate neck tension.

 

[supercorndogs]

you need to push your brass harder into your lee collet die. the lee die is not a neck it takes some pressure on the die to get the collet to size the neck. i have ran into bullets that would not hold well when collet sized with the lee die. but they were some brown box supposed 55tnts. i have never had this problem with 178 amaxs except when i was using the lee press that did not overcenter. when i switched to the rock chucker and over-center lightly in the die[against lee recommendations] the problem went away. it takes 35ftlbs of pressure to make the lee collet die size correctly. when it is working correctly it has produced for me much lower sd than fl sizing. if you still have a problem i believe lee sells a smaller mandrel for the die or they say you can spin yours in a drill and sand it down some

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Full length re-size all the time every time.


A good full length Bushing die with the right size bushing.

Redding Type S Bushing Full Length Sizer Die 308 Winchester


Headspace Gage

Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set Comparator


A mic

Fowler Inch Digit Outside Micrometer, 0.0001" Graduation: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


A Caliper

Amazon.com: Neiko 01407A Stanless Steel 6-Inch Digital Caliper with Extra-Large LCD Screen and Instant SAE-Metric Conversion: Home Improvement

 

[wmn2]

Thanks for all the replies. I will jut full length size from now on. I will also be picking up a headspace gauge this weekend.

 

[FLIGHT762]

It doesn't sound like you have your Lee Collet die set up properly. I use two of them and they work great. Take the die apart and grease the "Fingers on the collet. When you set the die up following the die instructions, you will feel the die squeeze the neck with about 25# of force right at the end of the upward ram stroke. There's tons of information on the net about the Lee collet die. Do a little reading and you might get the die to work right.

 

[Rattler56]

I FL resize with out the expander ball, then cut if needed, then use a mandrel for proper nick size, but thats just me.
I also anneal after there SS media wash and before the FL resizing.

 

[MitchAlsup]

I'm new to reloading and today I started working up loads for my .308 using the 178 AMAX. My question is this, I neck sized 65 pieces of brass that has been once fired in my rifle. Upon starting to seat the bullet, over 50% of them, the bullet falls right into the brass. I took them and ran them all trough a full-length sizing die and the problem went away. What would cause this?

Neck did not get sized. You need to measure the sized neck with dial calipers when setting the LEE die up.

My understanding is once the brass is shot in your rifle, it's better to just neck size because the brass is now fit for YOUR rifle and will perform better.

Where the definition of "perform" is in terms of case-life* not in terms of absolute accuracy.

Also, with the 178, I found online that with imr4064, the minimum charge is 34 grins and the maximum is 41.3. Does this sound correct? I was thinking of starting at 35 and working my way up to 41 in .5 increments and once u narrow down what my rifle likes, break it down I to smaller increments.

In my opinion, this step size is too big and may allow you to miss the node you are looking for. Try 0.3gr (just under 1%) or 0.4gr (approximately 1%)
{Note: numbers need units attached to them to reinforce their meanings.}

(*) I can get mid-30 reload cycles on cheapo Win 308 brass with 47.8gr Varget pushing 155 Scenars achieving one 5-shot group in the 0.3s, two 5-shot groups in the 0.4s, and one 5-shot group in the 0.6s from a box of 20 using neck only (NO) sizing.
I actually can get slightly better groups FL sizing (about 0.05" better), but being a cheapo-miester, and since I like to play with bass, I stick with NO sizing.

 

[supercorndogs]

Thanks for all the replies. I will jut full length size from now on. I will also be picking up a headspace gauge this weekend.

i would not give up on that collet die. it has a lot of advantages and greatly speeds up sizing brass and works brass much less than a full length die. i use a collet die for every caliber. but i found i did not have to trim as much when i switched away from the lee fl die to other companies fl dies.

 

[Steel head]

i would not give up on that collet die. it has a lot of advantages and greatly speeds up sizing brass and works brass much less than a full length die. i use a collet die for every caliber. but i found i did not have to trim as much when i switched away from the lee fl die to other companies fl dies.

I'm also a fan of the Lee collet die.
I use a redding body die to bump the shoulder when needed.
I set it up as per directions and it works every time.

 

[wmn2]

I will probably use it some more after I test these loads I worked up. I think my biggest problem with it was not being able to apply enough pressure. I need to upgrade my bench to something heavier. If I really have to crank down on the handle of my press, it feels like the bench is going to tip. The new table is next on my list.

On another note, I hit the jackpot today. Went to a local gun show and they had reloading supplies everywhere. After seeing first hand the shortage of powder recently I couldn't believe it. I was able to pick up some powder for my .40. I haven't been able to find pistol powder anywhere, so I bought two pounds.

 

[gewehr]

Full length re-size all the time every time.


A good full length Bushing die with the right size bushing.

Redding Type S Bushing Full Length Sizer Die 308 Winchester


Headspace Gage

Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set Comparator


A mic

Fowler Inch Digit Outside Micrometer, 0.0001" Graduation: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


A Caliper

Amazon.com: Neiko 01407A Stanless Steel 6-Inch Digital Caliper with Extra-Large LCD Screen and Instant SAE-Metric Conversion: Home Improvement

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