Question about reloading brand new Lapua brass

[AnotherNewbie]

I've been loading for close to 10 years and still several things escape me but trying to figure this one out is now when I load brand new Lapua brass I can't figure out how to get the tension off the neck the first time I load it.

When I load the brass the second time with my reeding dies I can take the neck tension off and they're accurate as can be but that very first time with brand new brass I have yet to figure it out. I got a set of mandrel dies and I've run them through it before I load it but that doesn't take very much tension off could someone please cue me in on where and what I'm missing thanks to all.

 

[918v]

Redding dry neck lube

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Get yourself either a Sinclair mandrel die and the appropriate mandrel, or a K&M mandrel. Run it on new brass with some lube and you'll have perfect tension.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Yup, mandrels are the answer. I run a Sinclair at the first position of my loading tool head on a Dillon 650.

 

[Precision Underground]

My 6.5 virgin lapua brass was super heavy to seat until I ran it through the Lee Collet. It almost felt like the inside of the neck was rough or had burs more than too much tension. After running it through all was well.

 

[padom]

I run all my virgin Lapua through a 21st Century TiN Turning mandrel before loading. Gives you .002 neck tension. Virgin lapua has way too much neck tension.

 

[AnotherNewbie]

Thanks for all the info and will run it again through my PMA mandrel its a 26cal.
If all fails I'll pull the few bullets I loaded and reload them that has worked in the past but pain in the a$$.
I did run the new brass through the mandrel 1st but no lube and that could be the issue. I know that the 2nd time I reload lapua brass with a reeding full size & .291 neck they slip in perfect.


Again Thanks for all the replys

 

[Stpilot12]

Yeah... Last batch of Lapua 6.5CM I ran, 200 pcs same lot#. Measured necks out of the box, .287 to .291. Some wild flyers and SDs and accuracy with a known good load. Best I was able to achieve was using a .288 bushing and mandrel. Seemed to settle things down. SD around 7 but still have a few flyers here and there, (1 in 12-15 rounds) avg groups 3/8" opens up to 1" to 1-1/4". kind of annoying.

 

[AnotherNewbie]

Found part of the problem the PMC expanded mandrel is between .241 and .242 that is part of it.

 

[918v]

The mandrel size is not the issue. I set up my friends equipment using the Pma mandrel and there is no problem with bullet seating when Redding dry lube is applied before the mandrel expands the neck. They seat nice and smooth.

 

[wilson1911]

Lapua brass out of the box is sized to small from the start. You will get a love ring on bullets if you try to seat some. Just get an expander mandrel and run it over the whole box.

 

[AnotherNewbie]

Lapua brass out of the box is sized to small from the start. You will get a love ring on bullets if you try to seat some. Just get an expander mandrel and run it over the whole box.

I did but did not have any dry lube.

 

[AnotherNewbie]

The mandrel size is not the issue. I set up my friends equipment using the Pma mandrel and there is no problem with bullet seating when Redding dry lube is applied before the mandrel expands the neck. They seat nice and smooth.

Just ordered some thanks.

 

[wilson1911]

I use a wilson seater/arbor press. It's just too dam hard to to seat bullets. They will all get a ring if I do not expand them.

I consider the first load fire forming anyway. But they are still good enough to find a node to test around...even tho neck tension is a bit light.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Size them before you shoot them.

 

[AnotherNewbie]

Come to find out there are 2 mandrels from PMA for the 6.5,
one that is .001 and another .002 and of coarse I have the .001 and there sending me the .002 for just shipping charges hopefully that might help a bit more.
It would scare me if I had researched it a little more and found that out 1st GEEZ.

 

[JCCinOhio]

PMA will also make one to a custom size if the standard expander and turning mandrels are too big/small..

 

[OzzyO20]

Would a FL S type bushing die with expander not do the trick?

 

[spife7980]

Would a FL S type bushing die with expander not do the trick?

It might but an expander is better served being pulled out of the neck vs just opening up. The mandrel is a more effective solution for just purely opening them up.

 

[kthomas]

Would a FL S type bushing die with expander not do the trick?

That's what I use for new Lapua brass, works great for me.

 

[Sig Marine]

It has been my experience that because new brass has different neck tensions, using a sizing die or a mandrel will not completely eliminate the neck tension problems. Brass has springback and as long as you have new brass with different neck tensions, the springback will vary when using mandrels and dies. This issue is minimized when using fired brass as it can only expand as large as your chamber and then relax for extraction. In dong so, necks will have pretty much the same OD and thus when sizing have fairly consistent compression and springback when using dies and mandrels giving more consistent neck tension. I have found, as mentioned above, that lubing the inside of the necks will help with both new and fired brass when sizing and/or seating bullets.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I fired up 100 rounds virgin Lapua @2850 fps w/6.5x284, 142 SMK, 51.3 H4831sc, BR2. Got into the .3 group size at range. To save time would you add, subtract, or not change powder weight for the fired form brass?

 

[spife7980]

I find I add powder, the effective volume is larger after. Sometimes it’s not much at all, a couple tenths and sometime it’s a fair amount.
Most recently the 270 with Winchester brass took a half grain higher to achieve the same results and unfortunately that was pretty rough on the already shit brass. So soon thereafter with Nosler brass it was only two tenths higher to find the node.
I still explore a full grain though, +/- a half each way just for peace of mind.

 

[XLR308]

I run all my virgin Lapua through a 21st Century TiN Turning mandrel before loading. Gives you .002 neck tension. Virgin lapua has way too much neck tension.

I'm new to the 65 Creedmoor but I did seat just one bullet in one of the 200 new Lapua cases I bought setting up a dummy round before chambering was done.
I ordered the complete turning kit from 21st century the next day, rediculaous amount of neck tension on the new brass.

 

[AnotherNewbie]

OK,
I went back and ordered the 2 thousandths mandrel and wow what a difference the 140 eld-m slides in like it should.
Guess I should have dome my homework better the 0.1000 was just not big enough in the 6.5 where as the 0.2000 did the trick.
Thanks for all the reply's and recommendations for the community.
And a big thank you to PMA tool for giving me one free and just charging me shipping.

 

[wilson1911]

I went thru this with my 6.5x47L also. I actually opened 4 boxes to make sure it wasn't me. It's impossible to seat bullets with an arbor press/wilson seater without expanding the necks first. I think it works out to 4 thou neck tension out of the box.

I do make 2 pulls on the expander slowly for each case. Neck tension is pretty good, but not perfect. You can tell the slightest variations when using an arbor.

XLR308 you will love the 21st cent lathe. I use a dewalt gyro screwdriver full speed when I turn the necks. Its also a good idea to use some kind of lube on the mandrel when going back and forth....as well as the outside. I use imperial sizing wax or wilson grease( heavy gun oil) when turning necks. This eliminates etching/chatter on your cases.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Spice, I added .2 grains and gained 30 fps! Still a nice load shooting in the .3s at 500 meters.

 

[XLR308]

I went thru this with my 6.5x47L also. I actually opened 4 boxes to make sure it wasn't me. It's impossible to seat bullets with an arbor press/wilson seater without expanding the necks first. I think it works out to 4 thou neck tension out of the box.

I do make 2 pulls on the expander slowly for each case. Neck tension is pretty good, but not perfect. You can tell the slightest variations when using an arbor.

XLR308 you will love the 21st cent lathe. I use a dewalt gyro screwdriver full speed when I turn the necks. Its also a good idea to use some kind of lube on the mandrel when going back and forth....as well as the outside. I use imperial sizing wax or wilson grease( heavy gun oil) when turning necks. This eliminates etching/chatter on your cases.

I didn't order the lathe base but the turning kit with titanium nitride mandrel and arbor and the driver.
I have allways done neck turning by hand with the exception of the RCBS set up I tried last.

It works pretty well but I never liked the profile of the cutter even though it cuts smooth it doesn't blend into the neck shoulder junction.

My 21st century kit is waiting at home for me with the 200 pieces of Lapua brass and the barrel that Kelblys chambered for me.
I have to build a new bench and get everything set up again since I just moved.