Question for Tire & Wheel Gurus

KillShot

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Needless to say, I am a little perplexed this afternoon and if you'll continue reading, you'll understand why.

I own an '06 F-150 Lariat Supercab 4x4 and the only mods are a 3" leveling kit, 18" KMC XD Badlands, and last night I mounted new Nitto Trail Grappler 295/70R18 tires. I love the way it looks/rides and I'm surprised the tires don't have more road noise than they do but, I'm having an issue of sorts.

When I cut the wheel hard right/left, I get rubbing...but only on the passenger side. The only reason I can think of as to why is back in 2011, during the major blizzard that hit Oklahoma, I lost control and hit a curb with my passenger front wheel at 45mph. Although the wheel wasn't damaged and it didn't knock the front end out of alignment, the tire (Nitto Dune Grappler 285/60/R18) had to be replaced.

Now, I'm wondering if the larger tires have revealed an underlying problem and perhaps I damaged my front end when I hit the curb. The driver tire has enough clearance but the passenger tire rubs on the front fascia and the rear of the wheel well/fender trim.

Any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated. The first image is of the driver side and the other images are of the passenger side.

Wheel info:

Wheel Diameter:18 in.
Wheel Width (in):9.000 in.
Manufacturers Wheel Series:KMC XD779 Badlands Series
Backspacing (in):5.710 in.
Offset:+18mm


DRIVER
http://catchmypicture.com/Qy2DwU.jpg


PASSENGER
http://catchmypicture.com/ZZpW5g.jpg


PASSENGER
http://catchmypicture.com/fRp5QQ.jpg
 

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KillShot

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What is it rubbing on? The fender liner?

It rubs both the bumper fascia and the fender trim on the passenger side when I have to cut the steering wheel sharply such as when backing into a parking space, maneuvering a trailer, or turning a sharp corner.
 

sab9259

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If you cut enough off you can go up a size or two:p

In all seriousness, if you had it re-aligned then they alignment shop should have let you know of any problems they saw. My Duramax would scrub on the left side and not the right, never really bothered me to trim a little plastic
 

KillShot

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If you cut enough off you can go up a size or two:p

In all seriousness, if you had it re-aligned then they alignment shop should have let you know of any problems they saw. My Duramax would scrub on the left side and not the right, never really bothered me to trim a little plastic

These are just an inch why of 35" so I'm happy with the size, just not the rubbing. =\
 

sab9259

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Is the clearance from the left side and the right side a huge difference when the wheel is turned full clock? If so, I would have an alignment shop take a peak and get a pro's insight
 

KillShot

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Is the clearance from the left side and the right side a huge difference when the wheel is turned full clock? If so, I would have an alignment shop take a peak and get a pro's insight

Yes sir, there is definitely a difference of an inch or so when the wheels are perfectly straight. I'm having new shocks/struts put on today or tomorrow.
 

Facemelter

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From the looks of it,I dont think its an alignment problem. Its almost like the tire is larger on the right side (passenger) of the vehicle.

Maybe that side of the vehicle sits lower and allowing the larger diameter part of the tire to be closer to the bumper facia and trim.

I would also say that since the distance from the fender to tire and the distance from the bumper to tire is almost the same,its almost like its a different size tire or the truck is saggy on the front right.

Measure the tires,both front with a tape measure. Also measure the fender gap from the tire to the fender trim at the widest point at the top. Mark your center on the rear rim center caps and mark center on the front rim center caps. Measure that with a tape measure. Use help and dont let the tape measure sag in the middle when measuring from rim center to rim center.

Write it all down and compare both sides.
 
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KillShot

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From the looks of it,I dont think its an alignment problem. Its almost like the tire is larger on the right side (passenger) of the vehicle.

Maybe that side of the vehicle sits lower and allowing the larger diameter part of the tire to be closer to the bumper facia and trim.

I would also say that since the distance from the fender to tire and the distance from the bumper to tire is almost the same,its almost like its a different size tire or the truck is saggy on the front right.

Someone else also mentioned that it may be sagging on the front passenger, so I'm hoping the strut replacement will solve this issue.
 

Victor N TN

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Find a place that does 4 wheel alignment on off road vehicles. What you have sounds like a little problem that I had with a 1985 K-Blazer we used to have. Long story short the alignment company had to loosen a bunch of body bolts and pulled the frame square again. It sounds really big. But they did it in one day and it didn't cost too much back then.

Good luck.
 

Kamkaze

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Definately could be a caster issue in your alignment. I would definately take it to get aligned after the shock/strut install.
 

Facemelter

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Caster only relates to what degree the wheel is pointed. Your pivot point is at the bottom and your moving the top to either add castor or take it away.

I inniatialy thought it was a caster issue also,but looking at it with the two photos of the right front wheel gap from the front and back it would have a difference in the gap. And it would only add minimul changes at that. In a truck like that with the type of front suspension setup it would be hard to change caster to that degree.
 

Kamkaze

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I am very familiar with what caster is, albeit I don't deal with 4x4's at all. There is definately a differece in front to back clearance on the passenger side but I also think the passenger side might be sitting lower, therefore bringing the bumper closer to the widest part of the the tire. I have seen a very similar issue fixed in a couple of buddies lowered cars by having the caster adjusted, but I do think you will see an improvement with the new shock and struts. Do you have a full side view of the passenger side like you do the drivers side?
 

KillShot

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Question for Tire & Wheel Gurus

I am very familiar with what caster is, albeit I don't deal with 4x4's at all. There is definately a differece in front to back clearance on the passenger side but I also think the passenger side might be sitting lower, therefore bringing the bumper closer to the widest part of the the tire. I have seen a very similar issue fixed in a couple of buddies lowered cars by having the caster adjusted, but I do think you will see an improvement with the new shock and struts. Do you have a full side view of the passenger side like you do the drivers side?

Yes sir but I just trimmed the front fascia on both sides. It stopped the rubbing on the front but it still rubs the trim at the rear of the fender well when turning the wheels hard left/right.

u2a2u6eh.jpg
 
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jcfd2201

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Rotate front tires left to right. KMC builds wheels with different offsets, if one of the wheels was boxed wrong the slight difference in offset could cause the problem. After cross rotating the tires if the problem remains the same it is a chassis issue, if the problem is on the opposite side it is a wheel issue.

The next step is to check your ride height. Measure from a point on the front of the frame rail on both sides of the truck down to level ground to verify they are equal.

Providing ride height is even you will need to measure the control arms to be sure they are equally spaced. Find a reference point in front of the control arm on either the frame or bumper bracket and measure to the control arm.

*EDIT A weak or blown strut could be the cause. Taking simple measurements of body and chassis points and comparing side to side will determine where the problem lies.

Check these and post the results and I will be more than happy to help further if these don't reveal the issue.


My knowledge comes from growing up in the business and working it for a lot of years. The family owns 4 tire and auto service centers.
 
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Switchblade

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Same problem I had on the '04 dak when I went up to 33's. Had to cut the fender liners in the front and rear to stop the rubbing in hard turning or when Panty 6 runs at speed onto her work driveway in a right hand or left hand turn...like slowing down isn't an option???



My next option, but she hates the idea is just cutting out the fenders and putting flares on it...no big deal to me
 

300rockbuster

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Check the inside of the wheel there should be all info cast into the wheel. Very well could be bad strut. get the alignment done on a new rack. Hunter hawk eye is awesome. Has a barcode scanner to scan truck and pull all specs for your truck. We have them in our shops.
 

E. Bryant

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    My previous truck was a '96 GMC K2500 with a 3" body lift and 315/70/17 tires (roughly 35x12.50"). The right-side front tire would rub the rear of its wheelhouse at hard right lock, but the same wasn't true on the other side. It was simply a stack-up of part and build tolerances.

    If you're really concerned, start taking measurements between the hub and various points on the frame and body. You'll need to get the front end in the air and the tires off, and then support the vehicle by the suspension (not the frame) such that you compress the suspension to the typical ride height. This might reveal that the front of the vehicle is "tweaked" side-to-side or that you have a ride-height difference, but more likely than not, you won't find anything majorly wrong. There might be a bit of adjustment possible by loosening the cab mounting bolts and shifting the body slightly on the frame.
     

    KillShot

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    Hey guys, sorry for the delay in response. It was a busy weekend.

    I took it to the shop and had new struts/shocks installed and had the front end aligned afterward. Unfortunately, the rubbing was still there but now, it was on both sides.

    I decided I was done with over thinking the issue so I went to Lowe's and picked up a keyhole saw with a hacksaw blade and trimmed the bumper fascia and the rear pieces of fender trim. You can't anything has been trimmed unless you stick your head up in the fender well and look for it but best of all, it doesn't rub anywhere now.

    The only now is...the larger tires KILLED my gas mileage, and I expected they would but not as much as I've seen. With the 285/60R18s that I removed, I averaged 15hwy/12city whereas the new 295/70/R18s are getting me 12hwy/9city. I'm still on stock gears (3.73) and I've been told and have read that swapping over to a 4.10 ratio would improve my gas mileage. I thought I'd also install a cold air pipe to help with gas mileage as well. What are your thoughts on that?

    Thanks for ALL the input!
     

    wdebo

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    Going to 4.10 gears will help the most. I have changed intakes on my diesel trucks several times and never seen a difference on mileage.
     

    Facemelter

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    Friend of mine did the gear swap on his Bronco. It worked for gas mileage and being able to get up to speed in traffic.

    Anything to help get air in and get air out will help with mileage and power. A tune would help also from a reputable tuner,not just a hendheld unit,but a guy that can tune with a computer. This is the guy that I use and he knows his stuff. his name is Adam,just tell him Facemelter told you to give him a call. He will give you answers to your tuning questions.

    Home - 513-236-2355
     

    Hang-Fire

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    What was done to the truck to correct the speedometer/odometer? I have basically same setup on my F-150 and saw very little change in fuel mileage. Only real difference is I am running BFG All Terrains. The 3.73 gears in mine do just fine; very similar to stock tires with the standard 3.55 gears a lot of the F-150s come with.
     

    BigBlue&Goldie

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    I wouldn't be concerned with the rubbing as long as the truck goes down the road straight and you are getting even tire wear. As far as the terrible mileage, that's part of the big tire game! I can't believe you are only getting 12mpg on the HWY, but a lot of that might be the increase in air drag under the truck from how much higher it sits. This is the #1 killer we face on our class 1 buggy when it comes to top speed and mileage; when we set it up low we see significant gains, but we bottom out more. Re-gearing will help, but it won't get you back to stock MPG. A 35" tire takes significantly more leverage to get rolling and weighs far more than a 285.
     

    Turk

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    Are the tires sticking out of the wheelwells equally when the wheel is straight? I can't speak for a truck, but on a jeep you have to relocate the track bar anytime you do a lift; otherwise it will pull the axle to one side.
     

    KillShot

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    What was done to the truck to correct the speedometer/odometer? I have basically same setup on my F-150 and saw very little change in fuel mileage. Only real difference is I am running BFG All Terrains. The 3.73 gears in mine do just fine; very similar to stock tires with the standard 3.55 gears a lot of the F-150s come with.

    Nothing has been done to correct the speedometer but oddly enough, I paced with my wife's Honda Accord and when she set her cruise at 70mph...I was running at 70mph as well. That makes me wonder if perhaps the speedometer was calibrated for 35" tires by the previous owner.

    I priced a set of 4.10 gears for $130. Anyone have an idea of what it costs for a gear swap?
     

    Hang-Fire

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    An Edge programmer is what I used for the speedometer correction. Without correcting for the larger tire diameter the auto trans will not shift correctly and trans damage may result. The poor fuel economy is almost certainly to blame on the incorrect speedometer affecting odometer reading. Think about it; if the tire is larger diameter more distance is traveled per tire revolution resulting in the odometer reading less miles than the truck actually traveled. With the Edge programmer you can use a GPS to get accurate speed information and make your truck speedometer/odometer correct. Your auto trans will also shift as it should. The Edge also has performance settings that are nice and if placed in the standard towing mode give better gas mileage and a noticeable improvement in responsiveness and power. Well woth the money spent as it will quickly pay for itself.

    The 4.11 gearset change will run you over a grand parts and labor. Rear end is much cheaper to upgrade than the front end is. Running 4.11 in back and 3.73 in front is a really bad idea if 4WD is ever to be used.

    Good luck with your truck and let us know how it turns out