F T/R Competition Question for you guys....

[Early Cuyler]

I was at the range yesterday talking to one of the regulars about optics, rings, etc. He's interested in getting a NF BR for his 7mm STW for 500+ yds. After letting him look through my 8-32x56 he was amazed but was still hesitant as "the tube is 30mm and they don't make offset rings/shims for it." His contention is that if the scope is not perfectly aligned (centered in windage and elevation) light comes in at an angle and distorts the view.

I figured that effect would be negligible as the angle is so small and that no BR articles that I have read mentioned zeroing the scope through inserts/shims rather than turrets. I called shenanigans on it and politely asked him how BR shooters account for wind as being faithful to his theory would require holdovers exclusively.

So what do y'all think? Am I right or is there a new (to me) flavor of koolaid I ought to be drinking?

 

[SNAFU_]

Re: Question for you guys....

doubt this will be an issue for a 7mm at only 500yds....but a 20MOA base would also do the trick if he plans on stretching the distance out...just my 2 cents worth

 

[scaxeman]

Re: Question for you guys....

In theory, it is a good idea to have the scope in roughly the middle of it's adjustment travel, both in windage and elevation. This gives you the best optical performance (in addition to giving you the most windage adjustment). This is why most guys that regularly play at longer range (1000-ish yards) run some sort of an angled base (as SNAFU states above). This allows them to adjust from a 100 (or 300) yard zero to 1000 yards and only have the elevation turret hiked up 1/2 - 2/3 of it's overall travel.

In practice, you will probably not be able to notice any fractional optical degradation due to "mis-aligned" light bouncing it's way through the scope. :-D

YMMV...

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: Question for you guys....

I completely understand the use of canted bases to allow for longer ranges. Every rifle I have either has a canted base or the mount is canted (ADM Recon). His position was that a lot of match shooters use shims or offset rings left or right to overcome slightly misaligned bases rather than just dialing over with windage travel in the scope.

Thanks for the help.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Question for you guys....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">His position was that a lot of match shooters use shims or offset rings left or right to overcome slightly misaligned bases rather than just dialing over with windage travel in the scope.</div></div>

He's right about that part...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...was still hesitant as "the tube is 30mm and they don't make offset rings/shims for it." </div></div>

...but wrong on this part. Burris has been making off-set shims for their Signature Zee rings for years now, in both 1" and 30mm. I have a sort of love-hate relationship with these rings... they work, and they aren't very expensive. That said, parts of their construction strike me as... cheap. Still, they get the job done, and you see any number of them on the line at matches.

Most of the time when I'm using them (or any one else I've talked with), its to either get a little more (or a little less) elevation, or to compensate for some misalignment of the scope with the barrel that is eating up too much windage. I've not heard of anyone trying to actually 'zero' their scope with the things... that would be an interesting (and I suspect frustrating) exercise - but not one I'm in a hurry to try out!

Quite frankly, if the guy was 'amazed' by a NF 8-32x56mm... he's most likely either making stuff up or repeating things heard 2nd and 3rd hand that lost something in the translation.

 

[Early Cuyler]

Re: Question for you guys....

Thanks for the response, memilanuk. He currently uses some Burris scope type that I don't recall. He was talking of using the rings and shims to zero his rifle, and the added elevation available to the scope when windage is centered is a good point.

As above, he's looking to upgrade but doesn't really know where to look. That's where I come in- relaying the wealth of knowledge on here to him!

 

[Denys]

Re: Question for you guys....

To be honest, I don't understand what that guy's problem is. I think he's just making stuff up and blowing smoke up your rear orifice to try to dazzle you with bulltish. I would just nod knowingly and ignore him.

I do agree with Monte that trying to get a zero with Burris Signature rings requires a lot of planning and calculation, and mostly luck. I use them to get "somewhere near" what I need.

 

[XTR]

Re: Question for you guys....

He's talking sh!t because it wallet won't support a NF.

Look on the line at any F class match and you'll see lots of people shooting them. Wonder how many records Danny Biggs set has with his? Wonder how much better he'd shoot if his tube was better aligned? <- that actually sounds pretty funny

In F class I'd confidently wager that 90+% of the rifles out there are sporting either a NF or a Sightron. They are the best scopes available with the 2FP target reticles and high magnification. Yes, March is out there, but the cost keeps them in a much smaller percentage.





<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Darrell Buell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In theory, it is a good idea to have the scope in roughly the middle of it's adjustment travel, both in windage and elevation. This gives you the best optical performance (in addition to giving you the most windage adjustment). This is why most guys that regularly play at longer range (1000-ish yards) run some sort of an angled base (as SNAFU states above). This allows them to adjust from a 100 (or 300) yard zero to 1000 yards and only have the elevation turret hiked up 1/2 - 2/3 of it's overall travel.

In practice, you will probably not be able to notice any fractional optical degradation due to "mis-aligned" light bouncing it's way through the scope. :-D

YMMV...
</div></div>

As to alignment, NF BR scopes are somewhat handicapped there. I had to put a 30MOA rail on mine to get to 1000 yards. A 32BR only has 50 MOA of travel and a 42BR has only 40. The NXS versions gain some (65/45) but still you are working at the top of the range at 1000 if you want it to zero at 100 or 200.

I crank mine through it's travel pretty regularly, 200 yd load testing, or practice and Matches at 600/800/900/1000. The scope is never my problem (well, other than when I forget to adjust the parallax)

 

[jwf100p]

Re: Question for you guys....

I have a NF NXS 42x that I shoot our to 600 yards in FClass. It doesn't have enough to get me out to 1000 but Im using a 0 taper mount. But I can only shoot to 600 yards anyway at my range. I think I have enough travel to get me out to 800 yards. Needless to say I love my scope and go from 100 to 600 multiple times each time Im at the range.

And as far as the misalignment, in theory it makes sense, but in the real world I live in, I have never seen a quality scope with good quality rings mess up. He could also lap the rings if he has doubt.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Question for you guys....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">His contention is that if the scope is not perfectly aligned (centered in windage and elevation) light comes in at an angle and distorts the view.</div></div>

If the guy is so worried about the image distortion... ask him what he plans to do about the hundreds of yards of atmospheric garbage between him and the target...

 

[scaxeman]

Re: Question for you guys....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the guy is so worried about the image distortion... ask him what he plans to do about the hundreds of yards of atmospheric garbage between him and the target... </div></div>

And possibly (gasp...) *mirage*?? LOL

 

[Denys]

Re: Question for you guys....

That's easy. If the scope is perfectly aligned, there is no mirage. Right?

 

[SNAFU_]

Re: Question for you guys....

you have to take the lens caps off Denys ....

 

[Denys]

Re: Question for you guys....

What's a "lens cap" ?

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Question for you guys....

USO makes windage adjustable rings.