Suppressors Question for you Texas class III owners

[Nostradumbass]

Maybe this has been beat before, but I've got a legal question for you Texas suppressor owners.

First off, I own two cans and two sbr's. the paperwork was all signed by the old county Sherrif. Well, he retired. Now we have a new Sherrif, who I thought was a good guy.... I brought a new application for another can to him, and that's where shit got wierd.

He started off by telling me he would not sign....after he told me he would while he was running for office. He then told me my suppressors and sbr's were illegal in the state of Texas and he was going to arrest me regardless of my tax stamp or not if he caught me with them in my possession. He told me he didn't care what kind of stamp the ATF gave me, that didn't make them legal in Texas!! I told him that Texas just passed a law allowing the hunting of game animals with suppressors. He told me he spoke to the game wardens and asked them how they were going to "handle" hunters with suppressors.

I called the ATF, and explained my situation. He said the ATF approval superseded the Texas law. He also told me to comply with the Sherrif if I got arrested, get in touch with a lawyer, and he said there was no way a DA would prosecute me....that still didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

So my question is, where can I find hard legal evidence that I can download, copy, and carry along with me, to go with my ATF paperwork to prove I can legally own suppressors and sbr's in Texas, so I can show the deputies in the event that I get stopped and questioned about my legal ownership?

Thanks guys!

 

[vinsonr]

In Texas, having an NFA weapon registered federally is a defense to prosecution. Yes, per Texas code you can be arrested for having them. Stupid, yes. The law, yes.

Heres' the pertinent section:

§ 46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures,
transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) an explosive weapon;
(2) a machine gun;
(3) a short-barrel firearm;
(4) a firearm silencer;
(5) a switchblade knife;
(6) knuckles;
(7) armor-piercing ammunition;
(8) a chemical dispensing device; or
(9) a zip gun.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor's conduct was incidental to the performance of official
duty by the armed forces or national guard, a governmental law
enforcement agency, or a correctional facility.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor's possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the
National Firearms Act, as amended.

 

[NICETRY]

Just set up a trust and you will not need a local LEO signature.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Just set up a trust and you will not need a local LEO signature.

Roger that, I'm going to set up a trust.....but that doesn't bother me.
What worries me is the fact that the Sherrif told me he was going to arrest me if I have a can in my possession.....and well, I've got two.

 

[chainring]

Contact the American Silencer Association American Silencer Association and see if they have a memo that would be appropriate for a registered letter to the sheriff? Scott Bitner at Silenced America is an activist for suppressor industry AND a Texas dealer - he might be able to point you to an appropriate response. I'd sure try to get something on file/on record with the sheriff that would serve to discourage him from following through on his misguided perspective. Worst case, you would be able to direct the DA's attention to the fact that you had provided the sheriff with the pertinent info and he had ignored it. Best case, the sheriff decides to pick other battles.

What he really needs is a better understanding of the kind of citizen that aquires NFA items. You gotta be pretty well squeaky clean....where's the beef?

 

[Farmallsh]

Would this be Sheriff Scott Cass? Here is his email:

[email protected]

Im an FFL/SOT in Ellis county. Do you want me to send an educational email to you newly elected ignorant Sheriff? One thing to remember about Sheriffs. They are elected politicians, and sometimes not the best law enforcement officers.
You should REALLY blow his mind and ask him to sign of on a MACHINE GUN!! lol

 

[KaneK]

I say we put on a suppressor & full auto shoot on there That will quickly educate him!

 

[charger23]

2nd calling Scott Bittner. He may shed some light here. What a joke. It's scary how many lawmen don't know the law.

 

[Nostradumbass]

2nd calling Scott Bittner. He may shed some light here. What a joke. It's scary how many lawmen don't know the law.

Yeah, I've talked to Scott Bittner in the past....but forgot what he did. And I believe he lives in Texas too.

I don't want to start a pissing match with Sherrif Scott Cass, because I don't think that will be beneficial. Just want to politely explain to him how the law really should be interpreted.

Hopefully mr. Bittner will help out with this problem.

 

[ddavis]

This lovely individual is on FB as well:

https://www.facebook.com/scottcass.sheriffelect

Perhaps the American Silencer Association can send him a message to check out their page?

 

[chainring]

Yeah, I've talked to Scott Bittner in the past....but forgot what he did. And I believe he lives in Texas too.

I don't want to start a pissing match with Sherrif Scott Cass, because I don't think that will be beneficial. Just want to politely explain to him how the law really should be interpreted.

Hopefully mr. Bittner will help out with this problem.

Scott is out of Amarillo, and he's got a store-front in the metroplex, too. Definitely where I'd start...he's President of the ASA. He can either hook you up with the info/memo that you need, or send you to the right place to get it.

I agree with your intention to stay on an even keel with the sheriff. It would be better to be at peace with the guy and pave the way for other NFA owners by getting him good info.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Scott is out of Amarillo, and he's got a store-front in the metroplex, too. Definitely where I'd start...he's President of the ASA. He can either hook you up with the info/memo that you need, or send you to the right place to get it.

I agree with your intention to stay on an even keel with the sheriff. It would be better to be at peace with the guy and pave the way for other NFA owners by getting him good info.

Yes sir,
I really don't think that our Sherrif is a bad guy, or out to get class 3 owners. What he has read is the Texas law where it says that the NFA ownership is "a defense to prosecution" therefore he believes its in his right to arrest NFA owners, and it's up to the DA to prosecute.
I'm not the only class 3 guy in Lamar county, so I'm treading lightly on this issue with him. In my experience, bashing heads with the law, always creates more trouble than good....and that's not my intention.
Hopefully the ASA can help.

 

[TexasGunTrustLawyer]

Education is the key here.

Make an appointment, sit down with him and present the law.

I am sure that he would not place his department in jeapardy of a civil lawsuit by arresting anyone with a silencer.

You could always invite him and the deputies to a mahcinegun and silencer shoot in his county.

Getting in a pissing contest with him isn't beneficial unless he does something stupid like arresting someone.

You might also contact the elected district attorney and ask him to sign off and take the opportunity to educate him on the law and let him know what the sheriff plans to do if someone has a legally owned silencer or machinegun in his county.

Normally, an arresting officer calls the district attorney and arrests only if the DA agrees to accept charges.

 

[TexasGunTrustLawyer]

On yes, one other thing, [Gratuitous Self Promotion]get a NFA Trust.[/Gratuitous Self Promtoion]

 

[mike in pa]

On yes, one other thing, [Gratuitous Self Promotion]get a NFA Trust.[/Gratuitous Self Promtoion]

Or depending on your state, set up a LLC/Corp.

 

[Ramius]

I would also be looking at supporting anyone that might be running against said Sheriff in the next election.

As I get older I find I am less and less tolerant of ignorance.

Maybe I am having a bad decade

 

[ZY100]

WRT setting up a trust.....and the beauty of the system we live with. You have to pay the $200 again for each item you transfer from yourself as an individual to a (aka your) trust.

Another reason I went with the trust from the start.....

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

ZY

 

[fdkay]

The easiest course of action is to talk to the district attorney.
Tell him or her of your conversation with dumbass and that he is threatening the arrest of folks that own class III items.

Can he do it?
Yes, it is a lawful arrest, is the DA going to attempt to prosecute?
Highly unlikely, if your DA is anything like ours, he or she will set the sheriff straight.

One other avenue is the County Commissioner, they hold quite of bit of sway with the other elected officials.

Also, start an information campaign that exposes him for the liar that he is. Either begin a recall effort or search for a suitable replacement and begin pounding the pavement to get him or her elected the next go around.

 

[427Cobra]

The new Denton County Sherrif William Travis has reniged on his word to sign, I will remember in November. I thought the CLEO sig was in the final stages of going away, it's kinda of silly to need one in this day and age, 1934 was a different time, the local CLEO if doing his job knew who and who wasn't a dirt bag, 2013 the databases out there are infinite, world wide, and the whole Trust thing and there explosion in the NFA world is the reason the ATF was seeking to remove the sig requirement.

 

[Charger442]

Keep us up on what happens with this. i would be very curious to see how this pans out.

i would also second the suggestion to talk with the DA. i would be polite and express your distress about being threatened by the new Sheriff, who you were led to believe was knowledgeable and seems to only have made a promise to you to get elected.

unfortunately, the arrest would be legal but the whole thing sucks about being arrested and having to lawyer up..... those guys dont work for free.

Good luck and tread lightly with some tact until you can find out who is on your side and who isnt.

 

[427Cobra]

I thought that "defense to prosecution" means no chance in hell of a conviction in the State of TEXAS, Remember in November!

 

[vinsonr]

Sure, but it doesn't legally prevent you from being arrested, booked and have the time and expense of going to trial for a judge to throw out the case.

 

[boomdoggie]

Talk to your local constables office, they are the only Law enforcement Offical that can remove a Sheriff from power, Tell them what he said to you and show them your stamps if you have to and see if you can get them to explain the proper procedure. Also rember Sheriffs have are elected officals in TX they are not required to be Peace officers, that is what the Chief Deputys if for. Talk to the Chief Deputy he is a the second incharge and a peace officer and explain your situation to him see if he is more responsive. I have worked under many sheriffs they all are power hungry and require some raining in at first

 

[ccoker]

That is nuts
Sounds like the Harris county DA that announced after the castle doctrine offically extending to your vehicle that they were going to arrest anyone carrying a gun in their car without a CHL.

"Defense to prosecution" doesn't prevent you being arrested....

 

[wetboyz]

Best statement:"Defense to prosecution" doesn't prevent you being arrested...." You can beat the time but you cant beat the ride.
Frankly, I scan my documents then use a program called fine print and print multiple pages to one and always carry them in the but stock, pistol grip or other place as a cya.
I have never had anyone ask and when they do, I have proof.

 

[red6actual]

The Sheriff in Lamar county is still not signing forms and does not seem to have learned anything about the process or his part in it...next election we need a new candidiate!

 

[boomdoggie]

I've heard that there is a Shall sign law proposed the next legislation we shall see though

 

[Nostradumbass]

I've heard that there is a Shall sign law proposed the next legislation we shall see though

I sincerely hope you're right man!