Gunsmithing Question on barrel inletting.

[keninsb]

I have a GAP Remington 700 .308 with a 22" flutted barrel that I recently sent in to have fit to my Bell & Carlson Tactical Medalist stock. When I received the rifle back, I had to remove the stock and sent it in to Badger to inlet the Badger trigger guard/magazine system. When I removed the barrel, I noticed that the only "fitting" that the other shop did to the stock was apply some epoxy at the barrel lug (rather than remove material from the stock so the barrel could lay down in it). The result is that the stock is now sitting up about 1/8" above the front pillar (there is a gap between the pillar and the action), and the barrel make some contact with the stock for about 4"-5" from the barrel lug outward, then it is free floating.
So I am planning on removing the stupid epoxy and inletting the stock for the barrel (the action is inletted fine). My question is: Should the barrel be free floated ormake descent contact with the stock uniformly?

I have all the proper tools for the barrel inletting, and am planning on going VERY slowly. Any input, tips are GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks,
Ken

 

[Beef_Supreme]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

Where did you send it to have the stock fitted?

 

[operator1]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

Fixed it for you.
Not much of a bedding job. Where did you have that done?

 

[keninsb]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

Well, I hesitated to mention the smith, but believe it or not it was GA Precision. I thought that it being a GAP actioned barrel that they were the guys to send it to. They had it for almost 3 months. They did do some other work too, but the "bedding" was really shabby.
BTW Operator1: How did you get the pic imbedded in the post? I tried several times, but just didn't work.
Thanks again guys,
Ken

 

[jonbearman]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

That is rediculous.I have seen better jobs done by first timers.And for the money you paid,I would be pissed.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

If you paid to have it bedded while it was at GA Precision and it came back like that then you need to talk to someone there and find out why it looks like that. I don't think I have ever heard a bad thing about GAP and I'm sure George or someone would like to get to bottom of this and see what might have happened.

 

[65nut]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

insert foot.

 

[-Snyper-]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

OH Boy here we go. Buckle up!

Maybe it was bring a kid to work day.

 

[KYS]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

Who's stamp on the barrel? Picture?
Because I really doubt George would let something like that get thru the final inspection....

 

[poison123]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

Shit happens. If its GAP built call them and they will make it right.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

Ill look up the shop ticket tomorro, But I can 100% say that that is not one of our bed jobs. And this customer was not charged for a Bed Job.

We have never charged anyone to put epoxy in the lug area on a Bell and Carlson Stock. We do put marine tex in the lug area of drop in stocks like the HS and Bell and Carlson to prevent the Lug from walking forward or to the side, but this should not be represented as a bed job becouse its not.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

I've had GAP rifles here in my shop and I can tell you this, thats not a GAP bedding job.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had GAP rifles here in my shop and I can tell you this, thats not a GAP bedding job. </div></div>

Thanks William!

 

[redirt78]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this customer was not charged for a Bed Job.</div></div>

That's what I figured. Sometimes things slip through the cracks but this would be like a top notch mechanic swapping out a transmission and leaving out... the new transmission.

 

[eddief]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

I remember when I seen my first GAP bed job (long time ago), an A5 I had George bed. It was the first bed job I had seen and thought, finally someone who cares just as much about aesthetics as they do function.

I have seen quite a few come through my shop, and ALL have been stellar. If I didn't do my own bedding now, I would still have GA do it.

I have the utmost respect for George and company, they care about their work.

 

[KLin]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

Customers that have any questions or concerns ought to give us a call, so we can have a chance to answer questions or remedy issues.

To clear up a few misconceptions regarding this specific work order:

1. as George said, that is not a 'bed job'

2. customer never requested bedding nor lug inlet fill.

3. customer was not charged for either.

4. this is a bed job on a bell and carlson:

5. Here is a detail of the lug area---this may help clear up customer's perceived '1/8"' above the bedding block---note that bedding block does not follow action, but rather drops away towards recoil lug.

6. If the customer's barrel is touching side of stock, that would be exceptionally abnormal--he should give me a call--I would be happy to issue a call tag to get it brought back in.

 

[keninsb]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

I just looked at the letter that I had included with the rifle when I sent it in to GAP. One of the line items that I had requested was "fit the barrel and action to the stock". The barrel is way to large to fit into the barrel channel of the stock, so material would have to be removed from the barrel channel.
I am not trying to be a jerk about this and frankly that is why I didn't name GAP until someone asked who did the work. I posted the issue here because I was not sure if the job looked right or not and wanted some impartial input.
I bought the barreled action because of GAPs reputation. But I thought that if there had been ANY question of what I wanted done to my rifle when I sent in it, that they would have called me to clarify as I asked them to do in the letter enclosed with the rifle.
As for what I was charged for, I have no idea as there was no itemized invoice included with the rifle. I would have gladly paid to have the work done the way I had intended.
Ken

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

dude, poor form. Dont act like you wasnt trying to sling mud when you posted this on a sight that is well known to be one of which the GAP crew (and owner) frequents daily. In your very first sentence you said you have "GAP Remington 700" and then your second post states GAP did it, just saying i dont buy the high road bit.

anywho, you are very much entitled to not being pleased with work done by anyone for anything, but did you first contact the people who did the work before throwing it out onto the internet?

I'm not defending GAP, hell George is a big boy, and as stated by George and Ken they stand behind their work, and have professionaly said if your not happy they will make it right.

Also, the whole point was you say the barrel contacts the stock, can you show a pic of this?

lastly, are you familiar with HS and Bell and carlson "drop in" stocks and how broad "fit barrel and action to stock" is?

 

[keninsb]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

I guess I need to word my posts much more carefully. My honest intent in posting was not to badmouth GAP, but to get some perspective/tips/hints on inletting the barrel channel on the stock (see the bottom line in the first post). Whenever I post asking advice I try to give as much onfo about the rifle as possible. The GAP barreled action that I have is awesome, it is truly a piece of art. I also think that my termonology in my letter to GAP included with the rifle was incorrect and/or misinterpreted. When I asked GAP to "fit the barrel and action to the stock" I was thinking of inletting, or removing material from the stock for a proper fit. I thought (apparently mistakenly) that "bedding" was done with an epoxy resin, that is why I did not use that term.
I did not call GAP about the bedding/inletting issue because I decided to tackle the job myself, thus the reason for my post (to get some insight). When I have spoken to Ken at GAP in the past he has always been VERY professional and courteous. And the other work that they did on my rifle was flawless.
Again, I did not mean to kick the hornets nest here, only wanted some advice from a place that I thought the knowledgeable rifle enthusiasts hung out.
Oh, and by the way, I am a relatively new user to this forum. I had no idea that GAP employees or owner regularly visited this site. My appologies to GAP for my part in the goof up.
I am still on the fence as to wether or not to send the rifle back to GAP. I have over $3k into this setup and cringe everytime I have to ship it. Looking at the photos that Ken posted of a B&C stock bedded, it is awefully tempting to send it back in because the work looks awesome. But it seems like the only material that needs to be removed for a good fit is in the barrel channel on the stock, and that is something I wanted to try and tackle. I have inletting scrapers, barrel bedding tools, inletting black and inletting gold so am set up for that part of the job. And being that the B&C stock was designed for a Remington 700 SA the action should seat pretty well as is, right?
Ken

 

[Charlie Papa]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

Hi Ken, welcome to the Hide.

I've been down the same road before, and please take my advice for what it's worth (it's free). I am very handy, love making things, used to install car stereos when I was a kid at a very high-end shop, and we did some killer work. I take a lot of pride in my work and am very meticulous. So I thought I could do as good a job if not better (I reasoned that my time is not money, so I can take more than enough time to do my own work) bedding a stock. After talking with the smith I use, I realized that all the time in the world is no replacement for repetition and experience, and that the bedding job has a lot more to do with the overall accuracy than I thought. My bedding job looked ok, nothing like my smith or GAP's work, but I thought it would function well enough. It didn't. When I took it to my smith and we looked at it, we found that the bedding material hadn't hardened enough. I don't know if I mixed it wrong or if it was simply too old, but if I had done hundreds of bedding jobs, I would have caught it. My smith explained that the difference in an ok bedding job and a good one is that one flier you might get every few shots, or double-grouping. Those ragged holes you see people post on here come from an entire system, and that whole system must be done right. If you have $3k invested already, do you want to squander the ragged-hole potential of all the other work GAP has already done on a DIY bedding job? I had my smith redo mine, and though I would have enjoyed being able to say I had a part in the build and take pride in that, I enjoy ringing steel the first time every time a little more.

 

[GUNNER75]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

FWIW, that is a B&C 2094. The barrel channel float is on the tight side. Why? Honestly I cannot provide that info, but my best guess is that it was built during the Remington short action sendero days when the float spec from Remington was minimal.
This stock typically doesn't need opened up for float, (as long as the barrel to receiver concentricity is true and the contour is within specs. And that is on a factory rig).

I could write a book on factory barreled actions of all makes. Some are more surprising than others.

***I am speaking about factory barreled actions being true, not something that comes out of GA. We all know they have there gnats in a tight group.

Just speaking about the stock. Float is minimal (to my standards). Lately, we have witnessed about 50% (factory barreled actions) that are extremely minimal.

On another note: Back in the day, it was thought that it was best to build to minimal spec so the customer could open if necessary. Today, well, let's just say that over time it has proven to show that more float is needed to accommodate factory barreled actions.

Not to rob the thread, but the bedding block in a B&C stock is cast in to a set of cores that are true. The items we get returned typically check out without issue with a steel one pc gauge machined to spec, bolted in, etc. Factory barreled actions are typically at fault, due to concentricity issues, factory barrel contours, and or slightly larger custom barrel contours.

Pretty darn sure the bedding is not GA unless it was by customer request and even at that........I highly doubt it.



Edit: Sorry to git off topic, as it is not a factory barreled action. Just adding input and it may not even be needed. I could go on, but it doesn't
really add to this topic. Sorry if I got off track.

 

[keninsb]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

Thanks Charlie Papa and Gunner 75, I REALLY appreciate the advice. I guess I will be giving GAP a cal tomorrow and see about having this done professionally. Like CP said, I have alot invested in this rifle and just want to see it done right. I will swallow what is left of my pride and let the pros handle it like I did for the Badger trigger/magazine assembly. One of these days I will get to use the tools I invested in.
Thanks again guys, exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.
Ken

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

ken, thanks for clarifying and hope you werent offended by my post, was not my intention. I think your making the right call by sending it into GAP

 

[decider]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

RIP Trayvon Martin

 

[keninsb]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ken, thanks for clarifying and hope you werent offended by my post, was not my intention. I think your making the right call by sending it into GAP</div></div>

No worries VJJP. Like I said, I need to be more careful about how I word my posts. Lesson learned.
Ken

 

[mavrickarcher]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

I am confused, when was this done? Was it done when you sent the rifle for "fit the barrel and action to the stock". I am new also and am trying to figure out if that is what you get when you ask for a smith to fit the barrel and action without a bedding job?

 

[KLin]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

Since the Bell and Carlson and other bedding block stocks (HS precision) do not require additional bedding, we took the request for 'fitting' to mean opening the barrel channel---which should have good clearance from the barrel---if not, we should get the stock and bbl/a sent back to get it squared away.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Question on barrel inletting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Decider</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RIP Trayvon Martin </div></div>

was that that colored feller what was in that show where he played a girl named sha nay nay? he died?