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Questions from new guy regarding Savage and Howa vs. Remington

Kattz

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 18, 2017
6
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Let me clarify that I am a learning PRS guy and admit that I know a little about firearms (well, maybe just a little more than that), and I don't picture myself as the precision shooter I want to be yet.

I have the Savage 10BA in 6.5CM, the 110BA in .300 Win Mag (considering the purchase of a .338LM version as a "nice to have for occasional fun" rifle), and the Howa HCS in .308.

All seem to shoot very consistently, with the understanding that they are a great rifle if the person behind the action was better...

I keep looking at the Remington 700's in .300WM on various chassis and wonder if my rifles are, well, junk. Opinions/experience, please.

Thanks.

Kev
 
Remington's are nothing special these days and typically require some money to get them to shoot well. If you want a project rifle to upgrade as you go they're great. If you want nice from the factory look at Tikka. If you want something really nice look at a custom action and build a rifle around it.
 
Are yours junk? That depends, how do you shoot them? If they drive nails for you, then no. If they are 3moa, then maybe.

The Remington 700 footprint is nice because everything fits it. That is why you see so many of them...ok, that in the military thing. In reality, the standard Remington 700 pulled off the retail floor often leaves a lot to be desired. Realistically, they probably shoot similar to your rifles. Some might shoot better, some my shoot worse. I admit I tell people to avoid factory Remington rifles compared to what is out there for the price.
 
I have been considering a Masterpiece Arms .260 Rem or 6.5CM... as the rifle to use at a match. My Howa .308 and the Savage 6.5 seem to hold a 1" group at 100 yards without much issue. The .300WM opens up to about 1.5" and frankly, I think that's me not putting my shoulder into it enough.
 
A Remington makes more sense for guys getting started. You can upgrade them as you go. A new guy doesn't need a quarter MOA rifle because he's not a quarter MOA shooter.

You're wanting to get into competition and PRS matches...you want an accurate rifle. Were I you, I'd look at something like the MPA you mentioned or a custom action build. No sense buying a bicycle with training wheels when you want to race down a mountain on a dual suspension mountain bike.
 
Kattz I am in nearly the same situation. I have learned that the old 700 is fast losing the only real advantage it had and that is the vast array of aftermarket parts. I've gone on drives just to handle/fondle other rifles to see how the action feels. For factory guns, Tikka rules them all. Wish I had that knowledge before I bought my Savage 10t. It's nice and sits in a Manners t4a. But it sucks @$$ in the action feel and bolt lift compared to a Tikka. Now you have nearly as many stock/chassis options for the Tikka as the Remington. A Yo Dave trigger spring is a cheap and effective upgrade from what I've heard. And PVA sells pre fit barrels if you want to build one DIY style. Another option is the RPR. Lots of people use them and most seem to be shooters. If not, plenty of ways to upgrade.
 
So... What about the Tikka T3 TSR in .260 Remington with a 20" barrel? Thoughts?

Thanks,

Kev
 
So... What about the Tikka T3 TSR in .260 Remington with a 20" barrel? Thoughts?

Thanks,

Kev

If you can afford it, go for it! But I kinda wish they had a longer barrel version. I really like at least 24 inches. The great thing is though, that you can always upgrade/swap the barrel later.

Is the Tikka T3X CTR 6.5 Creedmoor 24" rifle available? That would be my number one pick. You get a good caliber, barrel length, action etc... AND you save a good deal of money, money that you can spend on a chassis/stock later on! For the price of a Tikka TSR-1, you can buy a Tikka T3X 24" AND a KRG X-Ray chassis, or XLR Element chassis for example etc...
 
I was just in the same boat with decision making. Let me submit to you what I did. None of them. Bergara BMP is what i went with. Theres just a feel, fit and finish, etc that the others dont have. Just finished mounting the scope, so i cant say accuracy wise what the one i have is going to do. But if its anything like the othrs ive seen then it will shoot sub .5 moa with handloads. Just saw a posted group of .3 something with one. So the potential is there. That, and i got a deal for $1100k on it, so it became a no brainer.
 
I think that most factory rifles are probably better shooters than the people shooting them. I also think that a lot of folks believe it's the money that counts when they want to compete, and that they're no more wrong than anybody who thinks differently. It's their dough and if it brings a smile to their faces, no harm done.

But never judge a rifle by its price tag, especially not in a competition that stacks the stress on the shooter by the bucket load. Some things count more than the bucks.

Is it simple to the point of being foolproof? Is it reliable to the point of being infallible? Is it an easy carry to the point that we know for a fact that every ounce is doing something we can't afford to do without? Are WE up to the task as well?

None of these questions can be ignored.

I am no longer up to the task physically, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to do it even in the least. It drives me to try and figure out how an Old Wheezer like myself might go about doing it anyway.

I'd start with a good chambering, and a good but basic rifle. IMHO that should be a readily available hunter. That was good enough for Carlos, and he was moving around right in the middle of that target rich environment. There are few things better than personal risk to bring home the lesson about paring things down to the barest essentials.

My choice, I already own. It's the Savage 10 Predator Hunter Max 1. Chambering would be a tossup; .260 Remington for me because I can handload it very nicely, or 6.5 Creedmore for folks who buy theirs by the boxful. EGW or Leupold 20MOA Sloped Picatinny scope base. A really well made 3-12x hunting scope with some allowance provided for BDC aiming points.

The weight and reliability are just enough, not too much. The barrel is heavy enough at the fluted Predator contour without being so much of a heat sink that it takes a lifetime to cool back down. Pillar bedded, Accu-trigger in the Accu-stock, a D/M that can be upgraded with the Darkeagle replacement magazine. A good sling and a Harris-style bipod complete my choices. I find no faults, and just the right amount of nicer features.

There are undoubtedly better rifles out there. But this is my rifle, and I'm committed to it if the time comes for me to be practicing PRS type skills. I have to know my limits, and this rifle can fit well within them. Whatever I have, it needs to be a reasonable carry, quick to acquire the target, and capable of delivering accurate sustained fire to that target if/when such is the requirement. Altogether too many of the nice but complex features will fail me when the hankie drops because I can no longer spare enough of my energy beyond just doing the basics to do them good service. First, the simple; then the rest. Living in my skin, the rest is often more than I can manage. So let them go and concentrate on what's actually possible.

I see the cream that rises above these simple requirements as a luxury I am no longer physically able to utilize, no matter the monetary costs. Given that PRS is turning up the fire under the fry pan, maybe, just maybe, some of those luxuries could actually be distracting the more average competitor into a lower finishing place. First, the simple; then the rest. Do we really need all the rest? Is it more helpful, or maybe less helpful?

I have given the chassis a long hard look. I will pass. The basic advantage of allowing AR adjustable furniture does not appeal to me. IMHO all it provides is additional potential points of failure. If you need something non-generic, see McMillan; they can serve your needs very nicely. When the time comes for a barrel replacement, I'd be getting a Lothar-Walther drop-in Savage replacement barrel; not overpriced, not gunsmithing dependent, mine shoots like the dickens and has been doing so since 2002.

I don't have any personal experience with Howa. What personal knowledge I have about Remington prompts me to hold my nose and look beyond them to Savage. Friends and family have experienced a litany of crookedly mounted Remington barrels, off-centered chambers, and bad crowns from the factory. My only Remington rifle, an M700 VLS .223 was a very satisfying varmint rifle, but frustrating as a match rifle when trying to get that last bit of accuracy. My Savage rifles are a lot easier to shoot more accurately. I gave it to my Son-in-Law, who will likely use it for at least another decade in its best role, as a 'Chuck rifle.

My range queens are both Savage 11VT's, a .223 and a .308, with another .308 for use as a donor for a .260 rebarrel high on my list for acquisitition soon.

All but one of my rifles are factory rifles, and they all use SAAMI chambers. Simpler is just better.

Greg
 
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I am learning long distance bolt action shooting as well, so I'll give you my newb opinion based on my learning to date. For the record, I have three Savages: two .308, and one .223.

If your rifles work for you and meet your requirements/expectations, then they are not junk. If they are not meeting said requirements/expectations, then don't waste ammo on them. Remediate the deficiencies (if possible) or sell them.

In my case, the .223 and one of the .308s fulfill my core requirement for them nicely - consistent accuracy. I don't mind the fact the bolt feels like a mop in a bucket of water, and every once in a while they will fail to load a round from the mag, or a piece of brass lays in the action upon extraction. I am just prone or sitting at the bench at the range relaxing and enjoying my shooting. There is no stress of score or time.

The other .308 is a different story. I bought it for PRS type of shooting but the Savage bolt feel and lack of trust feeding/extracting (once in while) is unacceptable - in other words, while a nice rifle, it is "junk" to me for that purpose. I am going to sell it and replace it with a semi custom action, and get into the R700 footprint for accessories. I should have listened to those experienced folks on this board and done that from the start.

I have no plans to sell my other two.
 
Your 2 savages are great rifles. Had a rem 700p in 300WM (is was a sub-moa in the .8 moa range), Sold and got Savage, better rifle in my eyes. Have 6.5, 300 WM, and 338 Lapua. All are sub-moa, with the 300WM shooting .3 when I do my part. I admit I reload, so factory ammo may be an issue.

Only thing I changes is added rail for Atlas Bi-pod and went to Luth MBA-3 over the FAB G-shock for better cheek fit.

The 300WM is my favorite.
 
So these are the first 6 rounds through the fatory Savage 110BA Stealth, .300WM, fired for the first time today. Down to about just a tit under 1 MOA. During the range testing, the stock collapsed and the scope, even though torqued properly, moved 6mm forward. I admit that this is a superb rifle for me at my abilities, but the damn AR furniture is getting tossed in the garbage for a MDT or PRS stock. Ammo was 180gr game rounds with blunt (flat) tips. No ballistic ammo was available when I wne t shopping. Will probably run better with something similar to 178gr Hornady ELD or Superformance.

I think that the guy behind the scope is still the biggest variable. Need more training and practice.




 

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