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Quick question about shooting 1.5 miles on 338 LM

E

ELR Couch Commando

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Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 15, 2014
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Utah, North
Hey forum, long time reader and first time poster!

I've got a friend that is kind enough to allow me to shoot his .338 every now and again. We've recently reached our goal of the 1 mile shot on an 18'' diameter circular target on multiple occasions (Go team!). We started getting greedy and planning a 1.5 mile shot but quickly realized that we don't have the elevation in our turret to dial the distance.

We are able to dial the mile spot on (obviously handy), however we realized that we will need to dial at least 60 mils of elevation to hit 1.5 miles, based on our load data and ballistic calculator. Now, I don't have the load data offhand, but it takes about 20 mils to reach 1 mile, and then another 40 for the extra .5 miles (300 gr Berger using the starting load for H1000). Dialing as much as we can in the swfa optic (about 32 mils of total elevation minues our zero if i recall correctly) on top of a 60 moa riser, and using a hold on the reticle, we can get about 50 mils. Still 10 shy of that 1.5 mile mark.

How are people reaching 1.5 miles? Are they holding, marking a point in the distance and then holding off that? I'm not aware of any other optics that have greater total elevation adjustment than SWFA. Any help would be lovely.

1 Mile was our lifelong goal, and we reached it after about 30 rounds, including zeroing... So we need a new goal and 1.5 seems perfectly daunting!
 
Well you need the right tool for the job, and the right load.

Unless you are pushing the 300s over 2850-2900fps you are not getting the benefits of the bullet at that distance. It will work well enough inside that range, but after it falls off fast.

I just shot 2400 yards at Gunsite with some slow ass 300s and needed about 31 Mils to reach that, had to hold with the reticle. But clearly if you are looking to go that far and need that much you are wasting your time with that load. You're surely transonic around 2000 yards, maybe even 1900, so why do you want to go farther beyond supersonic. Change the load to work. PS, I was on target in less than a magazines with no dope, straight from 100 yard zero, and no prior data for the rifle.

Even the best scopes designed for ELR only go to 36MILS so needing 60 is just plain dumb. If you're hellbent on it, Arc Angle Solutions has a mount you can add to your rifle to dial up, Home
M0VFRjc0M0MzM0NEMUU0MjVGRUU6ODU0NDNjYmFhMzQzMGY0ODk0OGIwNDIwNzM0OTFlYmY=


But surely you needing 60 mils is not very practical, you might as well hold in the air and fire.
 
It's quite possible our calculations were pretty far off. It's just not very practical to try to reach out that far with a starting load then. If we are needing those kinds of velocities we'll definitely need to up the charge.

And I know 30 isn't an amazing feat, but seeing as how we thought it would take us years, we were quite pleased.

Edit: I was misremembering... sorry. I came out to 40 total mils to reach 1.5 miles with our initial load data. We were reaching 2470 fps mv
 
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That mv is low. Do some load development and then hit the 1.5 mile mark. Just like Lowlight said.
 
Definitely way too slow,

People overestimate the performance of the 300s when they are pushing them under 2850, 2900... they are meant to go much faster. At 2400, you're not getting near the BC you think you are getting. And it's a struggle, I bet you were subsonic at 1 Mile at that speed. (not even gonna bother to looks, its really slow)

Either speed up the load to as close to 2800 as you can get, or switch to a 285gr to increase the speed. 250s are great too, but you want to push them well over 2950, closer to 3100fps.

It's not really practical to try and do ELR when you are wasting really expensive rounds like that. I was running the 300s around 2700fps and that was way too slow, but it was what they handed me and still it was a chore to dial it in without prior data.
 
Very much appreciate the comments. This is why I frequent this site.

At 2800 fps and hotter, what kind of brass life do you traditionally see? Are you only getting 1 or 2 reloads per brass?
 
ELR Couch Commando said:
Very much appreciate the comments. This is why I frequent this site.

At 2800 fps and hotter, what kind of brass life do you traditionally see? Are you only getting 1 or 2 reloads per brass?
Click to expand...


I'm shooting a 338 Norma Mag AI so my brass tends to last longer period.
 
Lowlight said:
It's ELR, its expensive, if the goal is saving money, then why shoot 30 rounds to hit the target, when you can do it right and hit it 5, now you saved 6x as much.
Click to expand...

This is true, but Lowlight, everyone has to start somewhere, and we are definitely not pros. Just trying to gather as much information as possible and implement it as best we can. I very much understand that ELR is expensive, we're just trying to succeed as best we can with our limited resources.
 
ELR Couch Commando said:
This is true, but Lowlight, everyone has to start somewhere, and we are definitely not pros. Just trying to gather as much information as possible and implement it as best we can. I very much understand that ELR is expensive, we're just trying to succeed as best we can with our limited resources.
Click to expand...

That's freakin awesome man! A few months ago I hit a torso target at 1.54 mi, it took me 21 shots to get the first hit and then another 10 to get the next (and that one bounced into the target). That was my first time and I too had elevation issues. I had to dial around 25 mils on the scope, back off the sfp scope to 1/2 power and use the bottom of the reticle to get a total of 35 mils needed for the shot. Even then I still had to aim about 6ft up into the trees. Scope is a NF NXS 5.5-22 sitting on a 30 moa rail. I run the 300gr bergers at around 2780fps. I now have an accuracy 1st scope level (a must for ELR), and when it gets warmer I'd like to try again and further, hopefully getting those shot numbers down. I'm definitely going to look into that adjustable scope rail Low Light posted up, I need the extra elevation but still want that 100 yard zero.

Low Light, I could have swore you got that adjustable rail last year, how do you like it so far?
 
Fast forward to the 5:00 Mark, it's the 1 Mile footage from filming the Vicker's Tactical Channel 2 weeks ago.

Background on the shot, it was factory Lapua 300gr out of a factory AX338 (PSR), we zeroed the rifle at 100 yards on Sunday and shot this Tuesday Morning with no prior prep work. There was no dope for the rifle, it was my first time shooting it, and just based on zeroing it at 100 yards, (it was actually zeroed with 250s but the 300s were close enough) I estimated the dope at 18 Mils. In the final shots, it was determined I needed 20.8 Mils to reach 1 Mile. The Chronograph said 2750, but the actual dope was closer to 2700fps.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/20_vD9EPJ2w?list=UUwHsnyWOaQNtrGjJKsTgegg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

After the second hit on the target we went right to 2200 Meters at Gunsite, again no dope, no prep work.

It was estimated at 30 Mils, I ended up using 31 Mils to reach 2200m. The scope maxed out at 24 Mils (they had a 20MOA rail and zero moa mount) so I dialed on 24 Mils and held 7 Mils in the scope. I ended up with 3 hits at 2200m. The rounds was transonic at 1900 according to the computers.

Levels aren't the answer, fundamentals are, I was not using a level and hit a vertical line twice in a row at 1 Mile. Setting up the rifle correctly is the answer and using the best tools to get the job done. I had no prior knowledge to showing up what we were using, given the choice I would have used Hornady 285s, over the 300s, especially at 2700fps. But I used what was given to me. Also having only 20MOA of a cant was a big No, No... With ELR you need at least 40MOA in order to take advantage of the scopes we are using. In this case it was a NF BEAST. If you listen close, you can hear me call my hit on the Orange line before Walt calls it, as I was able to spot my own shots.

The Arc Angle Solution is a good piece of kit of those who want to dial it in, however as noted, with the right scope, and proper angle (40-45MOA) you should have no problem hitting ELR Targets from a 100 yard zero. Just because the marketing says things like, "300gr bullets are better" doesn't make it so, especially if you are not pushing them as fast as the BC is registered for. Just like the Level, SD, and CE, the odds don't increase because you dial all that on, in many cases they decrease because it affects the effective wind call. Had I used my rifle which was doped and calibrated for 1 Mile and beyond things would have gone much faster if you can count 5 rounds with 2 hits slow.

ELR is about preparation, that and trigger control and follow through. You need Low ES / SD numbers with your load, (noted the vertical deviation from factory ammo, almost 10" (target is 16" wide) and you need to calibrate your rifle, scope and software. At the ELR Classes at Gunsite you have 3 days of prep & calibration from 300 yards to 600, out to 1200, then you go beyond. Now they even include shots on paper at 500m, 1000m, and 1500m, that is priceless when it comes to setting your elevation and checking vertical deviations. If you're gonna flop down like you do with your 308 and poke at targets, you're gonna waste time and money.
 
To the OP you do not "need" super sonic to shot 1.5 miles with the 338 lapua pretty hard to get from what i have found. I am working on a mile now hard to find that range here in western pa and i have place on private property in va that just gets a mile. Though you do not need to be sonic you do need mor than 2400 fps. Now i only have a savage fcp with a 27" barrel. I have found that i have 2 loads that i can go to one is pushing the 300 grainers at 2710 with an es of 8 fps that is using 89.3 gr of retumbo. Brass life is beyond 9 reloads in lapua cases. The other is wc867 at 105.7 gr. with this load i am getting 2985 with an es of 5 fps and it shows on target with a vert. Spread at 300 yards of just over on average .5 inches. Brass life with this i am on 4 reloads no issues again with lapua cases. With the wc867 at 2985 looks like you would need 33 to 35 mils from 100 yard 0 to get to 1.5 miles and that is at my alt. 800 ft above sea level. Hope this helps for waht it is worth to you.
 
Lowlight said:
Definitely way too slow,

People overestimate the performance of the 300s when they are pushing them under 2850, 2900... they are meant to go much faster. At 2400, you're not getting near the BC you think you are getting. And it's a struggle, I bet you were subsonic at 1 Mile at that speed. (not even gonna bother to looks, its really slow)

Either speed up the load to as close to 2800 as you can get, or switch to a 285gr to increase the speed. 250s are great too, but you want to push them well over 2950, closer to 3100fps.

It's not really practical to try and do ELR when you are wasting really expensive rounds like that. I was running the 300s around 2700fps and that was way too slow, but it was what they handed me and still it was a chore to dial it in without prior data.
Click to expand...

Ok Lowlight, What rig would you use to send 300s at 2900+ or 250s at 3100?

I mean what case, barrel length, etc.

Thanks,

Jfields
 
One of my shooting buddies, Jeff (member name here is Broz) is launching 300gr Berger at 3200 fps.

He's shooting a 338 Terminator +P as made by Shawn Carlock of Defensive Edge.

Essentially an improved 338 Lapua, with some extra freebore, and a 32" bbl. Jeff's rig is a bullpup design so overall length is similar to a 22-24" bbl'd rifle.
 
I'm not sure what 338 lapua (not Norma or improved) can push 300gr bergers at 2900+...maybe if it was a 30 inch barrel or something, but most barrels are in the 26-28 range. It seems like 26-27 inch barrels will start showing too much pressure around or before 2850 and more importantly the accuracy node will be at or below 2800.

Anyways, congrats on your mile milestone. Let me tell you, there is an enormous difference between 'only' 1 mile vs beyond. I know it sound like half a mile is only a bit more, but it's a world of a difference. There is a reason the 338 lapua is designed to be a 1500 yard cartridge. At that distance, it really does feel like it's doing most the work. Then at a mile, it starts becoming more difficult but not too hard. When I shoot 2200 yards, 1.3 miles I think, it was easily twice as hard to get a hit of any sorts. The bullet is plummeting like a rock and the wind is having its way with your bullet.
 
That is the point,

300s in a Lapua are not the end all as seen on paper. It's too heavy for a Lapua and why the bullets under work better at the extended ranges. Sure at ranges where they are supersonic they work great, and most people tend to stay inside supersonic ranges, but beyond, go with a lighter bullet.

You want to seek the heaviest, highest BC bullet you can reasonably push fast enough to take advantage of. If you can't push them hard enough you are not getting the rated BC to begin with.

Everyone falls over the recalculated Litz BCs which tend to lower the published numbers. Why because the speeds used are generally slower in real life, so that change or adjustment in velocity recalculated the value. If you simulate your results with software but use the highest value you find, you're making the same mistake Litz is correcting.

You can push a 250 over 2900, close to 3100, you can't do the same with a 300 and if you think a 200fps or more, less velocity to start is gonna give you the rated BC, well... If you say so. We tested it on paper, it's why we recommend the 285s.
 
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Lowlight what do you use or recomend a loadin a 338 lm with 285's i have no tried them but keep hearing good things about them. I have only used 300 smk and berger 300's some 300 or so thus far and they shoot good but not great. I would really like to find a good load for 1000 to 1800 yards. Thanks for any info you can help with
 
I believe most go anywhere from 88gr to 92gr of H1000 for the 285s,

Some might have missed the point, but understand there are all kinds of 338s, not just Lapua Magnum. So to put it in context, consider the .30 Cal, you can get a 230gr bullet but that doesn't mean you shoot it out of a 308...
 
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Thanks lowlight. I see what your saying. I know i am in the process of loading 230's for a 300 win. Mag and i am not sure i am going to ge the vel's out of it. I have thought the 210's to be about ideal for the 300 win but we will see. I'll pick up some 285's and give them a try. I have h1000 on hand it did not net me very good results in the 338 lm but pretty good with the 300 win. Thanks again.
 
Lowlight said:
I believe most go anywhere from 88gr to 92gr of H1000 for the 285s,

Some might have missed the point, but understand there are all kinds of 338s, not just Lapua Magnum. So to put it in context, consider the .30 Cal, you can get a 230gr bullet but that doesn't mean you shoot it out of a 308...
Click to expand...

I'm not having luck finding an accurate enough load with 300gr bergers in my new ax, so gonna try the 285s maybe.
What grain range would u recommend for the 285s with retumbo? I am gonna load up 91-93.5, sound right?

Also, any place sell them in packets larger than 50? They are more expensive than bergers since the packs are so small!

Edit: also, why do you push the 285s over the 300gr bergers so much. You really can't push the Hornady that much faster, and their bc is alot less. At 2k yards that's a couple mils diff in elevation. Did they just group that much better in all the rifles that you guys tested at gunsite?
 
Last edited:
pyrofx said:
Im running 92 of retumbo with the 285. Its the go to load that works in my APO 338 and every other gun we put it in .
greg
Click to expand...

Looks like my node is at 92 grains and 93.5 grains. I'm kit sure which I will go with yet. The 93.5 isn't showing bad ejector Marks or flattened primers, but I'm assuming it's pushing it, considering most people's loads seem to be in the 92 or below range
 
Lowlight said:
That is the point,

300s in a Lapua are not the end all as seen on paper. It's too heavy for a Lapua and why the bullets under work better at the extended ranges. Sure at ranges where they are supersonic they work great, and most people tend to stay inside supersonic ranges, but beyond, go with a lighter bullet.

You want to seek the heaviest, highest BC bullet you can reasonably push fast enough to take advantage of. If you can't push them hard enough you are not getting the rated BC to begin with.

Everyone falls over the recalculated Litz BCs which tend to lower the published numbers. Why because the speeds used are generally slower in real life, so that change or adjustment in velocity recalculated the value. If you simulate your results with software but use the highest value you find, you're making the same mistake Litz is correcting.

You can push a 250 over 2900, close to 3100, you can't do the same with a 300 and if you think a 200fps or more, less velocity to start is gonna give you the rated BC, well... If you say so. We tested it on paper, it's why we recommend the 285s.
Click to expand...

So I just put some of these numbers to the test on a ballsitic calculator and I'm wondering why your saying the 300's are so much worse at <2900fps.

I used a custom drag curve from litz for both 300gr bergers and 285gr hornady. This accounts for all the different BC's depending on velocity. The velocities were 2800fps for the bergers and 2900 for the hornady. At 2k yards, the bergers still have an advantage of 1.5 mils less drop and are supersonic, while the 285's are subsonic at this point.

Even if you use just the BC numbers that you and Cory calculated, the results are similar.

So where is the disadvantage at using the 300 grainers in a 338lm?
 
Try Shooting them and find out... clearly you have the answer and real world data is meaningless to you... instead you would rather "simulate' the answer, so go with it if that works for you.

Not to mention your custom curve is still using the marketed BC value, try running 2 chronographs on your own and see what the BC is, or you can continue to simulate actual shooting and be satisfied you are right.
 
Lowlight said:
Try Shooting them and find out... clearly you have the answer and real world data is meaningless to you... instead you would rather "simulate' the answer, so go with it if that works for you.

Not to mention your custom curve is still using the marketed BC value, try running 2 chronographs on your own and see what the BC is, or you can continue to simulate actual shooting and be satisfied you are right.
Click to expand...
The results are similar regardless of whether I use the custom curve or your bc values that you acoustically calculated and posted. While my current rifle won't shoot bergers worth a Damn, my last one shot them great. So my real world experience has been a wash. I also don't have as much experience as others, like you, which is why I come on here... To learn from others experience.

But just like any other smart 'consumer' , I approach things with a healthy dose of skepticism. That doesn't mean I'm calling you out, on the contrary, it just means I'm asking for the reasoning behind your statements.

It's completely up to you whether you want to explain your reasoning or just flaunt your rap sheet and say "because I said so". You owe us nothing. It would just be helpful to others in the community that are skeptical and wish to hear about your actual experience (rather than just your conclusions).
 
Here is an example,

Yesterday I spent the day with a company who was setting up a target for me, who also has contracts with some high end types. Together they did a test and with the Militarys' 300WM they used a new powder, and load to test alongside the 220SMK currently be used by the Spec Ops Types. What they did was change the 220SMK for the 230gr VLD, and found while they were able to get great velocity with the 230, they were also testing the BC and something was up. The BC as tested was extremely erratic, while testing of the BC with the 220SMK was in line and consistent. So, on paper at the same velocity, the 230gr Berger should have won hands down over the 220SMK... but it did not. With an erratic BC you run into issues downrange.

Rewind to last month, At Gunsite again, we shot the AI PSR To 1760 and 2200m. We zeroed the gun with the 250s and then shot the 300s, which at 100 yards were grouping extremely well. MV was calculated at 2750fps. Which was slow but should have been okay. I plugged the numbers into SHOOTER and it said 18 Mils to 1 Mile. I double checked it with Ballistics FTE and it was also around 18 Mils to 1760.

Actually results, were 20.7 Mils on steel ... that is a huge difference. So "simulating" it at closer ranges does not tell the "whole story". In other words, you can't "simulate it" that far.

We had Gunsite add paper targets to their HK range for a reason. 500m, 1000m, and 1500m... We found several of the high BC bullets were impacting sideways at 1500m, but were working great inside that distance. ON PAPER they should have been easily supersonic, but live fire told a different story. I took my factory load Hornady 285gr bullets, (I was also using Predator Solids) and focusing 100% on my reticle hold, shot a group with only 6" of vertical at 1500m... that is a huge plus in the Good Column for an ELR Bullet.

It's the difference between simulating a results and actually shooting it for record. It's one thing to shoot a rock at 2000m and "guess" the results then call them good. It's another thing to put an 18 x30" target downrange or better yet, Paper... to verify the results.

I have the ability to get velocity at both the shooter and the target now, not perfect but i can get a MV at the target and have it computer controlled and recorded. Why is this important.

What people don't do when "truing" or shooting at distance is use, 2 chronographs and recalculate the actual BC of the bullet they are shooting from their gun. We guess on our twist rate, we have a plus or minus estimate on our MV, as well as a ES/SD spread. So if you can, like the military did, test the actual BC you might find plugging in the values to your computer will greatly change the results. Speed matters, if the manufacture rates the bullet with a BC measured at 300 yards, going 3000fps, and you in turn want to shoot it going 2750fps to start going 2000m, you might find things change a lot. Especially when your verticals at 1 Mile could be feet, and not inches.
 
LL you may have posted this somewhere else and I didnt see it but how/what chronograph are you using to get MV at the target? And once you have the target MV what formula or calculator are you using to derive the actual BC? Seems like that would really be helpful in truing up dope at range I'd be interested in doing the same thing if it isnt crazy expensive.

Is it the new radar chrony?

If you are grouping through the sky screens on a shooting crony at 1500m then never mind lol.
 
None of the above,

it was special option that was available, but not, that the tech "turned on" for me.

But several software programs will calculate you a new BC if you have the two values. Field Firing Solutions for example.

If you can accurately shoot between the screens of a chronograph you can get the second value, so fine tune your zero at distance, and then place a chronograph there. I am not using this method, but I have.

I have not had any contact with the radar chrony people other than signing up for their updates.
 
Lowlight said:
Here is an example,

Yesterday I spent the day with a company who was setting up a target for

.........

3000fps, and you in turn want to shoot it going 2750fps to start going 2000m, you might find things change a lot. Especially when your verticals at 1 Mile could be feet, and not inches.
Click to expand...
Frank, thank you for your input. It answered my questions.

What's your opinion on some of the features litz provides on his applied ballistic app. More specifically the 'custom curve' option for BC and/or the truing option that he provides by entering actual drop at specific distances. Have you tried either of them at distance to how well it fairs compared to FFS and others.
 
ELR Couch Commando said:
Very much appreciate the comments. This is why I frequent this site.

At 2800 fps and hotter, what kind of brass life do you traditionally see? Are you only getting 1 or 2 reloads per brass?
Click to expand...


look into how to anneal. you can do it with a bucket a socket and a torch. If your not using lapua brass get it. i anneal every 3 firings to be on the safe side i know others go up to 5 but id rather not destroy the expensive brass.
 
Agreed, I started annealing a few years ago and it's made a big difference not only in brass life on my big magnums, but also consistency overall.
 
The 285 A-MAX is new. The 285 BTHP has been out for a while and is what most folks are referring to.
 
I also went through the Gunsite ELR course in October 2012. I have a long throated .338 LM put together by GAP with a Seekins Bottom Metal and magazine which allows me to seat the .300 Berger Hybrids (or Scenars) out long enough to use 95 grains of Retumbo, and an average muzzle velocity of 2925. For me, 2000 meters was about 21.0 mils. It is understandable given the history of the .338 LM, but unfortunate that the COAL and mag dimensions limit it's true potential. I had no difficulty holding dead on at 2000 to get on target with my S&B 5-25 PMII. I have not yet tried to go beyond this distance. The SnipeTac can certainly push the 300's plenty fast, but now you are stepping up to a whole new platform, and if you are going to do that... you might as well just go with the .375 CT, which will out perform any .338.v
 
Lowlight said:
Even the best scopes designed for ELR only go to 36MILS so needing 60 is just plain dumb. If you're hellbent on it, Arc Angle Solutions has a mount you can add to your rifle to dial up, Home
M0VFRjc0M0MzM0NEMUU0MjVGRUU6ODU0NDNjYmFhMzQzMGY0ODk0OGIwNDIwNzM0OTFlYmY=
Click to expand...

LL:

Seems no one picked up on Arc-Angle Solutions base. I tried a search on the site but this thread did not even show up. If this base has been discussed - in depth - in another thread, please just provide the link.

Have you tried this mount? In particular, have you run tests on its repeatability/consistency - e.g., dial up 40 MOA and shoot a group, dial back down to zero MOA and shoot a group, and then go back up to 40 MOA and shoot a group to compare to the first 40 MOA group (simply an example to check for elevation repeatability/consistency)? I've read various posts about the Ivey base/ring set, MOAB 150 base, and ERA-TAC adjustable incline base/ring set and there always seems to be someone that has had a problem with dialed MOA repeatability/consistency in real shooting.

Please advise.

Thanks.
 
1,5 mile would be something to go for! I might have suitable place for it ?

I might be back after 11 years to told that I did it ?
 
Anybody other than Mark and Sam After Work make a 338LM hit at 1.5 miles in the last 6 years?

We're trying, but all kinds of weird shit is forcing us to fail. Must be a conspiracy.

Does a double skip into a 48" piece of steel count?

Even moon-walking backwards into the prone didn't work.

Theis obviously jinxed us, the prick.
 
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ELR Couch Commando said:
This is true, but Lowlight, everyone has to start somewhere, and we are definitely not pros. Just trying to gather as much information as possible and implement it as best we can. I very much understand that ELR is expensive, we're just trying to succeed as best we can with our limited resources.
Click to expand...

well, in that case, stop trying to hit shit past a mile since you obviously are still a greenhorn. No offense intended, but this is trying to do a triple flip double twist at the stage where perfecting the cartwheel is more realistic.

So, after 6 years where are we?
 
Yes I have hit a 40 inch plate at 2625 yards in the last year with my AI-PSR .338LM shooting Berger 300gr Hy bullets at 2761 avg fps. Wind was near zero making for very little mirage. I think I went 3 for 10 if memory is correct.
If you want to play over 2000 yards then the 33xc will get the FPS up to between 3000 and 3100 depending on your barrel.
 
GIXXER2000 said:
Yes I have hit a 40 inch plate at 2625 yards in the last year with my AI-PSR .338LM shooting Berger 300gr Hy bullets at 2761 avg fps. Wind was near zero making for very little mirage. I think I went 3 for 10 if memory is correct.
If you want to play over 2000 yards then the 33xc will get the FPS up to between 3000 and 3100 depending on your barrel.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was being facetious. I know there are people here that shoot very well at ELR. I haven't gotten to 1.5 yet with my 338 but I'm getting close.
 
I shoot a .338 LM and use Hornady 285 Gr ELDM bullets with 89.6 gr powder at 2845 in a 26” barrel. I come up with just about 38 Mils.
 
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