Quiet .22 shooting questions

[Steveoknievo]

Hey ya'll. I love plinking with the good ol' .22 bolt gun. Was just wondering how to keep the rounds quiet without breaking the bank?

I have a SilencerCo Sparrow on the way, and several .22 rifles. 10/22, Savage Mark II, and I also have a Ruger 22/45.

The name of the game is shooting a LOT for a little! I would like to make shooting in the backyard fun and enjoyable for both my ears and my wallet. I can shoot bulk ammo from Walmart all day long and it won't break the bank, but it is super sonic in the rifles.

I was hoping you all might know of some ammunition that is subsonic, copper plated, and affordable.. I have looked around and the only thing I have found would be the 40gr CCI Subsonic Copper Plated Segmented Hp rounds that are expensive!! I would like them to be plated to reduce the fouling..

I know I can use the Winchester bulk packs through my handgun and they will stay supersonic, so that's cool. What I am wondering is how to keep the ammo subsonic in my rifles without buying the more expensive subsonic rounds...
Does anyone have any experience porting barrels? Does this affect accuracy? Reliability? Can I do it myself? (I'm handy and have all of the tools needed to do so..)

Another thing i have seen is the TacSol 10/22 SB-X Barrel, which is 12.5" of barrel and a shroud welded on to make it 16" OAL. Would this shorter barrel keep the rounds subsonic?

Any suggestions? I would rather do something to the gun in order to shoot the cheaper and copper plated bulk packs of ammo. I am not too worried about 1/2 MOA shooting, the bulk packs are just fine, I am just plinking in the back yard and I don't want my neighbors to go insane from hearing gunshots all the time.

Any thoughts would be welcome!
<3

 

[BusterB]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

CCI standard velocity stays subsonic in a rifle, shoots really clean for me too. It is not copper plated though. Dicks is the only place I have found it. Not as cheap as Walmart bulk packs, but the bullets don't wiggle in the case either...well worth the extra couple dollars

 

[former naval person]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

I question the exclusive use of plated bullets. It has not been my experience that plating reduces fouling...especially at subsonic velocities.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

If it is not legal to shoot in your yard, being quiet will still be a crime. If it is legal, why worry about it?

 

[Steveoknievo]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I question the exclusive use of plated bullets. It has not been my experience that plating reduces fouling...especially at subsonic velocities.</div></div>

Really? I've never heard anyone say that. I do not have much experience with non-plated rounds as I have always gone with the copper plated rounds.. No excessive lead fouling? I mean, I know the .22lr is a dirty round to begin with but I've heard (never experienced) that the straight lead bullets are worse..

 

[Steveoknievo]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it is not legal to shoot in your yard, being quiet will still be a crime. If it is legal, why worry about it? </div></div>

It's perfectly legal to shoot where I am, however out of respect for my neighbors I want to be as low key as possible. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it isn't rude, ya know? Just trying to keep everyone happy in the neighborhood.

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

I have a 16" Tactical Innovations barrel on my 10/22, and all the standard vel ammo I've shot through it was subsonic. 12" should be easy-peasy.

FWIW, here's Ballistics by the Inch's page on .22 velocities.

 

[ryanjay11]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

This is what I use. Even unsupressed, it is extremely quiet. I used to shoot Super Colibri's, but they weren't accurate. This is way more accurate and only slightly louder.

 

[Steveoknievo]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

As always you guys have all the right answers. I really like that Ballistics by the Inch website, wish I had known about it before now. What ammo are you using in a 16" bbl that keeps it subsonic?

 

[Steveoknievo]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

Are those similar to the Aguila primer-only cartridges? Very interesting... What is your experience with lead fouling?

 

[1shot2kill]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

I have a spare sb-x barrel if you are after one

 

[SilencercoJames]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

I also shoot the cci standard velocity. Out of both my tacsol xring and my pws summit. It is very accurate and stays sub

 

[Steveoknievo]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1shot2kill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a spare abc barrel if you are after one</div></div>

I'm dense, what is an ABC barrel?

 

[dddoo7]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

cci standard velocity is rated at 1070 probably tested out of a 16" barrel. I know that their green tag (also rated at 1070) stays subsonic out of my Winchester 52 (somewhere around 26" of barrel). You shouldn't have any problem with this or other "target" or "match" ammo as long as they are rated around 1070 or less.

 

[Steveoknievo]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

DFOOSKING: Aren't those similar to the Aguila 60 gr SSS? I have heard that rounds like that can get lodged in the barrel of your rifle/create baffle strikes?

Impulse: While using the CCI's in my normal 10/22 they go supersonic for me.. I wonder if the elevation has anything to do with it? I am a lot lower in elevation than you (or at least I am assuming so since your profile says Utah..)

General consensus is that most of you guys use the normal velocity stuff instead of the subsonic, and it is all still subsonic?? It's strange.. I have a 16" 10/22 that sends CCI's downrange supersonic, and a 22" savage mark II that does the same understandably. It is obvious I have much to learn even with the simple rimfire stuff

 

[Steveoknievo]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ddd oo7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cci standard velocity is rated at 1070 probably tested out of a 16" barrel. I know that their green tag (also rated at 1070) stays subsonic out of my Winchester 52 (somewhere around 26" of barrel). You shouldn't have any problem with this or other "target" or "match" ammo as long as they are rated around 1070 or less.</div></div>

I should probably start reading yall's posts better.. Here I was thinking ya'll were talking about CCI Mini Mags.. D'ooh!

 

[1shot2kill]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steveoknievo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1shot2kill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a spare abc barrel if you are after one</div></div>

I'm dense, what is an ABC barrel? </div></div>





Sorry I fixed it

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steveoknievo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As always you guys have all the right answers. I really like that Ballistics by the Inch website, wish I had known about it before now. What ammo are you using in a 16" bbl that keeps it subsonic? </div></div>
The TI barrel is a 1:9 twist that I bought specifically to use with the 60-gr Aguila ammunition, but that stuff is horrible. It was shooting 3" groups @50 yards, so I chronoed a box and got an average MV of 915 fps, an SD of 31.8 and an ES of 111 fps. No wonder it wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn!

I can't think of a single "standard" velocity cartridge I shot through the 16"er that wasn't SSS and, trust me, I shot a shitload of bullets trying to decide if the problem was the barrel or the Aguila ammunition. That barrel's favorite "cheap" bullet is American Eagle (Federal) 40-gr "High Velocity" (AE5022) which, despite its name, was subsonic from my 16"er.

I chrono almost everything I shoot but that isn't necessary to tell SS from SSS. Supersonic crack echoes like a mutha. Shooting suppressed, and especially with any substantial backstop, you <span style="text-decoration: underline">will</span> hear the echo. No echo = subsonic.

If you plan on setting up a rifle range style firing line, and you really want the neighbors to be clueless, you can make it even quieter by putting a tunnel of old car tires on the downrange side of your shooting bench, maybe between two sawhorses. With your muzzle/suppressor inserted a tire or two down the tunnel, it will serve as yet another set of baffles before the noise gets out.

Also, with the 10/22, the action is fairly noisy. TBA Suppressors and Urban Rifle Supply (and maybe others) sell what amounts to a magnet that fits inside the ejection port, pretty much filling the port and sticking to the outside of the bolt. It keeps the charging handle pinned in place, preventing the bolt from cycling when you fire. Yes, it converts your rifle to a single shot, but it does eliminate one more clue the neighbors might otherwise hear that you're out there blastin' away. The destructions say they're only to be used with CB caps but I 'spect that's lawyer-speak and concerns about receiver peening from long-term use. I have used one from each company with 'standard' ammo with no visible damage yet. However, it's not something I use all day, every day, only when I need to be especially stealthy.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

i think you'll experience more fouling using the copper plated.

the layers of copper get layed down. it's not much of a plating rather than a copper wash...which is easier yet to leave copper residue behind.

.22lr, especially your subsonic and specialty "quiet ammos" aren't moving fast enough to really "melt" off and redry in the barrel rifling like a centerfire. yeah there is lead residue left behind, but the general softness of 22lr rounds and the low velocity kinda moves the lead around rather than strips it off.

plus generally rimfire barrels aren't made of the same metalergy of centerfires nor as much machining detail given to them as centerfire (generally except for your higher end rimfire rifles). the lead that is stripped off actually acts as a filler for the pourousity of the metal and subsequent rounds ride that filler of the imperfections making a better gas seal and contact with the lands and grooves. eventually it does build up to where it should be stripped out, but the copper wash adds up quicker. you'll also notice little flakes of the stuff everywhere, and the builup is a bigger hassle to get rid of than the lead.

of the quiet sort of ammo, there's generally 4 specialty ammos widely available:

Remington CeeBee (copper washed hollowpoint)
aguila sniper sub sonic
CCI cbee longs / shorts (if chambered for short)
the newer CCI quiet ammo

of the four for pest removal i prefer the rem. CeeBee as the bullet groups well through my rifles and the HP works well on critters. with the copper wash, i don't run them other than for critter control in an urban setting.

i just bought a few boxes of the CCI Quiet, i have not yet been able to give them an opinion as i haven't shot them.

i think what the OP was looking for are these types of specialty ammos that have a much lower rapport than the standard or match velocity sub sonic ammos.

also in an urban setting practicing in the yard ...not a good idea either legally or just from a firearm user perception point of view.

if trigger time is your thing, i've recently been introduced to a few "adult" airguns. they are quiet, neighbors don't mind much when you say "it's a pellet gun" even though many of today's air rifles rival or even surpass the .22lr subsonic rounds in FPS with stronger air charges / springs and pellet design / composition. and have unique features that make them quiet. granted some are even noisier than a .22lr subsonic round. but they are more accepted as a backyard plinker as they are still regarded as toys by most.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

FWIW, here's Ballistics by the Inch's page on .22 velocities.</div></div>

nice link ^^^

 

[Steveoknievo]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1shot2kill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a spare sb-x barrel if you are after one</div></div>

PM sent.

 

[Steveoknievo]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

All of the folks here on the 'hide sure are a wealth of information. It's great.

Just for a little more detail; I live on 5 acres in a zoned agricultural, non deed restricted neighborhood. The houses aren't stacked one on top of another, and there are plenty of trees in between. I am not trying to be stealthy to hide anything, only to try and be more respectful to the neighbors around, because I know that hearing constant gunshots all the time gets old.

I have a little range in the backyard. A big ol' pile of dirt 30' wide 12' tall, in the shape of a "U" just to prevent any possible ricochets that may occur. I currently have my bench set up at 75 yards, and can go out to 200 yards if I really wanted to. I'm really only using it to shoot .22's, maybe the occasional 9mm or .45. I could blast away with my .300 Win Mag, but as I said earlier I am just trying to be a decent neighbor.

It would be really cool if my old man and I could go out back and shoot at our dueling tree and be relatively quiet about it; without breaking the bank on more "expensive" ammo. From the sounds of it, the CCI Standard Velocity's sound like a winner, especially if they do not create excessive lead fouling. I was just hoping to learn about a way to be able to go through 1,000 rounds or so in a weekend without breaking the bank. I shoot the bulk ammo unsuppressed right now, no issues. But I think out of respect and everything that to be more low key about it would be best.

I am extremely interested in trying the regular lead round nosed CCI's. I also really like the tire idea, that sounds very interesting and I would like to give it a try to see how much of a difference it will make.

Do the standard velocity CCI's have any issues cycling a semi auto? I would think increased back pressure from the suppressor would help mitigate a slight pressure issue but I have no experience and am only speculating.

 

[kaotic504]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

i have a TacSol SB-X barrel on my 10/22. its a nice barrel. be careful with the install. also, depending on your suppressor, check the threads as i had to use a spacer with mine. i shoot all kinds of ammo through mine, but the best and cheapest to stay subsonic has been CCI Standard Velocity. there's no reason to buy the "Subsonic" labeled stuff. High Velocity ammo will go supersonic in that 12.5" barrel. so you will have to shoot Standard Velocity. i shoot that also in my Savage Mark II TR-SR w/ the 22" barrel and it stays subsonic. i do not like Remington Subsonics, it's not very consistent.

 

[Steveoknievo]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kaotic504</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have a TacSol SB-X barrel on my 10/22. its a nice barrel. be careful with the install. also, depending on your suppressor, check the threads as i had to use a spacer with mine. i shoot all kinds of ammo through mine, but the best and cheapest to stay subsonic has been CCI Standard Velocity. there's no reason to buy the "Subsonic" labeled stuff. High Velocity ammo will go supersonic in that 12.5" barrel. so you will have to shoot Standard Velocity. i shoot that also in my Savage Mark II TR-SR w/ the 22" barrel and it stays subsonic. i do not like Remington Subsonics, it's not very consistent. </div></div>

Very useful information. I was wondering how the "standard velocity" CCI's would do out of the longer barrel. It's also good to know that HV bulk will go supersonic out of the SB-X.

 

[crankythunder]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

Stevieo:

After reading through the whole thread, there are a couple of comments that I have for your consideration.

1) Consider a old tire sound reducer that you shoot through. I had a similar setup and constructed one out of (what else) old tires, cedar saplings, wire rope, and wire rope clamps. I filled the tires with old swimming noodles and the neighbor was so impressed that I gave it to him. Soon as I get enough tires I will have it again. (Have not heard the neighbor shooting either).
2) The copper wash bullet is only for lubrication on supersonic rounds. Not much is left in the barrel and you will only get a touch of green when using a copper solvent. This is a variable that does not have any influence on your decision.
3) With that being said, good luck finding a subsonic copper washed bullet or round. The benifits of copper washed do not show up until you get supersonic in the barrel, but your looking for a subsonic round and are concerned with the amount of leading, which is more of a condition of the smoothness or quality of your barrel as opposed to the appearance (or lack of) a thin copper wash on the visible part of the bullet.
4) In order to minimize noise, and to maximize the accuracy/cost curve that we are all battling against, please remember that all rimfire rifles will have a favorite ammunition. That might be the $36.00/fifty rounds of the most expensive Lapua or Eley ammo or it could be the really cheap federal auto match. Most likely it will be in the $5.00 to $15.00 per fifty price range. There aint nobody here on the net that will be able to tell you what your rifle likes to eat, but, we dont have to, your rifle is fully capeable of letting you know what it needs for top accuracy.
5) with that being said, you need a place to start and a good place to start is the cheaper cost ammos that work good in other rifles. I would recommend begining with the following: Federal auto Match (supersonic), CCI SV, and Eley Sport. If any of those group consistantly better then 1/2 inch at 50 yards in your rifle, buy a thousand rounds before you go on to the next step. Better yet, buy 5000 rounds!
6) Now, take a look at some of the lower priced target ammo, the Wolf Match Target and Match extra, the eley team, the SK ammo, The RWS yellow stripe and orange stripe. The similarly priced lapua and aguilla stuff (I am not up to speed with the lapua and aguilla but they do have a strong following). Give these ammos a try and if any of them shoot less then a quarter inch at 50 yards buy a case of them. Yes, take a mortgage and buy 5,000 rounds to put in the basement and consider getting another case the next paycheck that comes in. Make sure you keep track of lot numbers because different lots from the same manufacturer will perform differently in your rifle.

Now, if your still with me, go ahead and get some of the higher priced ammo, the stuff that is ten bucks for fifty and above. What your buying is ammo that will group less then 0.200 at 50 yards and you gotta test them in your rifle. they may not group that good in your rifle but they will group that good in somebodies rifle.

For what its worth, I found a batch of Eley sport (at about $3.00 for fifty) that groups under 1/2 inch in quite a number of my rimfires. I bought 10,000 rounds and wish I woulda bought 30,000 rounds. It is my competition ammo for bullseye and my training/plinking ammo in my winchester 52, my three kimbers, and my CZ. For high priced ammo, I use Eley Team, Eley Target, Wolf Match Target, SK Pistol Match Special (in my rifles), RWS Orange Stripe, RWS Yellow Stripe, and RWS R-50.

If you ever want to "swat" flies at 50 yards, Wolf Match Target is my ammo of choice. For smaller targets, I go to Eley Target andor RWS R-50.

Regards,
Cranky

 

[Steveoknievo]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crankythunder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Stevieo:

After reading through the whole thread, there are a couple of comments that I have for your consideration.

1) Consider a old tire sound reducer that you shoot through. I had a similar setup and constructed one out of (what else) old tires, cedar saplings, wire rope, and wire rope clamps. I filled the tires with old swimming noodles and the neighbor was so impressed that I gave it to him. Soon as I get enough tires I will have it again. (Have not heard the neighbor shooting either).
2) The copper wash bullet is only for lubrication on supersonic rounds. Not much is left in the barrel and you will only get a touch of green when using a copper solvent. This is a variable that does not have any influence on your decision.
3) With that being said, good luck finding a subsonic copper washed bullet or round. The benifits of copper washed do not show up until you get supersonic in the barrel, but your looking for a subsonic round and are concerned with the amount of leading, which is more of a condition of the smoothness or quality of your barrel as opposed to the appearance (or lack of) a thin copper wash on the visible part of the bullet.
4) In order to minimize noise, and to maximize the accuracy/cost curve that we are all battling against, please remember that all rimfire rifles will have a favorite ammunition. That might be the $36.00/fifty rounds of the most expensive Lapua or Eley ammo or it could be the really cheap federal auto match. Most likely it will be in the $5.00 to $15.00 per fifty price range. There aint nobody here on the net that will be able to tell you what your rifle likes to eat, but, we dont have to, your rifle is fully capeable of letting you know what it needs for top accuracy.
5) with that being said, you need a place to start and a good place to start is the cheaper cost ammos that work good in other rifles. I would recommend begining with the following: Federal auto Match (supersonic), CCI SV, and Eley Sport. If any of those group consistantly better then 1/2 inch at 50 yards in your rifle, buy a thousand rounds before you go on to the next step. Better yet, buy 5000 rounds!
6) Now, take a look at some of the lower priced target ammo, the Wolf Match Target and Match extra, the eley team, the SK ammo, The RWS yellow stripe and orange stripe. The similarly priced lapua and aguilla stuff (I am not up to speed with the lapua and aguilla but they do have a strong following). Give these ammos a try and if any of them shoot less then a quarter inch at 50 yards buy a case of them. Yes, take a mortgage and buy 5,000 rounds to put in the basement and consider getting another case the next paycheck that comes in. Make sure you keep track of lot numbers because different lots from the same manufacturer will perform differently in your rifle.

Now, if your still with me, go ahead and get some of the higher priced ammo, the stuff that is ten bucks for fifty and above. What your buying is ammo that will group less then 0.200 at 50 yards and you gotta test them in your rifle. they may not group that good in your rifle but they will group that good in somebodies rifle.

For what its worth, I found a batch of Eley sport (at about $3.00 for fifty) that groups under 1/2 inch in quite a number of my rimfires. I bought 10,000 rounds and wish I woulda bought 30,000 rounds. It is my competition ammo for bullseye and my training/plinking ammo in my winchester 52, my three kimbers, and my CZ. For high priced ammo, I use Eley Team, Eley Target, Wolf Match Target, SK Pistol Match Special (in my rifles), RWS Orange Stripe, RWS Yellow Stripe, and RWS R-50.

If you ever want to "swat" flies at 50 yards, Wolf Match Target is my ammo of choice. For smaller targets, I go to Eley Target andor RWS R-50.

Regards,
Cranky</div></div>

Excellent tips, will give them all a try.

 

[PLeighton]

Re: Quiet .22 shooting questions

Federal AM22 325 round bulk pack.
~$15 @ WalMart

Same exact cartridge as Federal GMM 922A.
As long as the ambient temperature is above freezing, this cartridge will remain subsonic.
(1080fps is the listed velocity from Federal.)
It also functions quite well in suppressed ruger 10/22s.