Suppressors Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

Patrick_S

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Gathering info for 300 Blackout hunting rifle build. Are there any 5/8-24 muzzle devices out there that are not suppressors, but really reduce noise to the shooter? Reduction in noise to the shooter is primary, everything else is secondary although a m.d. that would get a 14.5" barrel to 16+ would be ideal.
 

762frmafr

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Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Patrick Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gathering info for 300 Blackout hunting rifle build. Are there any 5/8-24 muzzle devices out there that are not suppressors, but really reduce noise to the shooter? </div></div>

It's called a longer barrel.....
 

c_bass16

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    A linear comp is probably the only think you're going to find that reduces the noise "to the shooter", and that's just because it's directing the blast down range.
    That result is probably debatable, but it's the only thing I've heard of.
     

    RollingThunder51

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    Absolutely...

    Noveske KX3 in .30

    Hard to find item. Know that it increases back pressure.
     

    HPLLC

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    Anything that increases backpressure will probably increase noise at the shooters ear.

    The best possible device I can think of would be like a golf ball launcher. A 6-10" tube attached to the muzzle with no front cap would be a sound redirector- like a megaphone. If the ATF would not call such a device a "suppressor" it would be the way to reduce shooter noise without reducing sound.
     

    Red_SC

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anything that increases backpressure will probably increase noise at the shooters ear.

    The best possible device I can think of would be like a golf ball launcher. A 6-10" tube attached to the muzzle with no front cap would be a sound redirector- like a megaphone. If the ATF would not call such a device a "suppressor" it would be the way to reduce shooter noise without reducing sound.

    </div></div>

    Not sure I follow the logic there, suppressors also increase backpressure but don't increase noise to the shooter's ear. The KX3 is exactly what you described in your second paragraph, just smaller.
     

    RollingThunder51

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    Griff, that is just not so. That pressure, that back pressure is contained within the barrel/gas system, and dependent on design can have no audible effect. Think of a bolt action, within parameters, who cares if there is a marginal increase in back pressure? Is it audible, no. When we get to gas systems and the KX, we have to mention it, not for sound, but for function. We first saw this brake on the early Krinkovs.

    Get a KX3 and you will see an interesting design that, as red points out, redirects that primary impulse forward, shaping the sound away from the shooter.

    NOVESKE.jpg
     

    HPLLC

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    The TTB, Battle comp, and M4-SD comp increase shooters ear noise by ~10Db (our test bed gun was 12.5" piston operated. The TTB patent specifies ~10DB increase in sound on a DI M4 carbine). None of these devices increase noise at 90 degrees of the muzzle by more than 2DB, so if it isn't action noise I don't know where it's coming from.

    I don't know why the same isn't true of sound suppressors, but it is not. There is no way for the M4-SD comp to project blast rearward- the tiny holes are through material that is too thick to vector gas backward, and yet the results are what they are.

    If I wanted to reduce shooter sound without reducing sound, I would use a blast redirecting tube like a golf ball launcher.
     

    gregsjt

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I wanted to reduce shooter sound without reducing sound, I would use a blast redirecting tube like a golf ball launcher. </div></div>

    That's exactly what the KX does.
     

    HPLLC

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gregsjt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I wanted to reduce shooter sound without reducing sound, I would use a blast redirecting tube like a golf ball launcher. </div></div>

    That's exactly what the KX does. </div></div>

    I would like to see the two options compared. I don't think the results would be similar.
     

    chainring

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wirehand</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Noveske kx3 </div></div>

    These. Works amazingly well. Bit of a brake, too.
     

    RollingThunder51

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    If one cannot use a can, these are the next best thing. Plug up.
     

    KYS

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gregsjt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I wanted to reduce shooter sound without reducing sound, I would use a blast redirecting tube like a golf ball launcher. </div></div>

    That's exactly what the KX does. </div></div>

    That is the 3rd time he has been told that.... I guess we are all lying.
     

    RollingThunder51

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    Johnson,

    That is a very interesting question, essentially "does a direct port forward do the same thing?" And the answer is "no."

    First, let me say that for decades, like 30 years, I have tried just about every kind of muzzle brake out there and the Troy design is actually a redo (minus the King Arthur bezel) of an older design.

    First, and foremost the KX redirects a great deal of the chase gas from behind the projectile as soon as it exits the muzzle. That allows for a great deal of the principle concussion to have the slightest dwell inside the KX before sending it out through the cone you see in my pic. That effect, redirect, the delay dwell, the final exit with focused forward cone concussion is not duplicated in the TROY. Troy just ports straight out.

    The process of the cone redirecting is tight enough that those that use the KX regularly on an SBR will need to clean them and they will notice deterioration around the entrance hole of the cone. The cone can take a great deal of erosion before it is spent.

    Think of the KX as a captured M3A1 flash hider, an "M9" in a wrap.
     

    HPLLC

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gregsjt</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I wanted to reduce shooter sound without reducing sound, I would use a blast redirecting tube like a golf ball launcher. </div></div>

    That's exactly what the KX does. </div></div>

    That is the 3rd time he has been told that.... I guess we are all lying. </div></div>

    I've fired the KX3 in the form of the Bulgarian 3 piece flash hider on my brothers Krinkov side folding AK. It isn't the same thing.

    It might be doing something similar- but that's like saying a one baffle 2" long suppressor does the same thing that a 3 baffle 6" long suppressor does.

    Its sort of like the difference between a gas lens or a standard welding tip.

    The tube does a better job of putting sound and blast in a linear direction, and unlike a linear comp, it is a low pressure device.
     

    RollingThunder51

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    Fair enough, but one must remember that the Belgian three piece was designed for muzzle rise, again throwing the concussion rearward. The KX has no effect on rise.

    Think of it more like the four piece Krinkov, created to up the back pressure for the system. THe four has a very similar effect.
     

    HPLLC

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fair enough, but one must remember that the Belgian three piece was designed for muzzle rise, again throwing the concussion rearward. The KX has no effect on rise.

    Think of it more like the four piece Krinkov, created to up the back pressure for the system. THe four has a very similar effect. </div></div>

    Maybe it's a 4 piece I'm talking about then. I'm not an expert in anything AK. It's a spring, a cone, a nut a little like a barrel nut in size, and a body. so I guess it's 4 pieces.

    I wasn't thinking of the spring as significant.
     

    KYS

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    The KX3 was designed to be used on SBR's especially the 7.5's to increase back pressure for functionality. They DO however have the added benefit of sending most percussion/noise downrange.

    I use them all the time and have also been next to many in shooting classes and they definitely are more welcomed than most brakes out there.
     

    HPLLC

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The KX3 was designed to be used on SBR's especially the 7.5's to increase back pressure for functionality. They DO however have the added benefit of sending most percussion/noise downrange.

    I use them all the time and have also been next to many in shooting classes and they definitely are more welcomed than most brakes out there. </div></div>

    The KX3 does work better than most, and better than blind muzzle of course.

    My only confusion was regarding the "quietest 30Cal muzzle device that is not a suppressor". I was thinking he wanted to know what kind of device would probably help the most.

    Another good thing to remember is that sound will reflect, so if you shoot with a tree or a wall, berm, or target board in front of the muzzle, the sound you project forward will come back at you.

    Shooting walls with an M4 (if you're using the wall for cover but not posting the barrel forward of the wall)- the concussion coming back is incredible - more like firing a 50BMG rifle.
     

    chainring

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">- but that's like saying a one baffle 2" long suppressor does the same thing that a 3 baffle 6" long suppressor does.</div></div>

    No, that's like saying a one baffle 2" long suppressor does the same thing that a 6 inch long open tube does.

    I had a KX3 on a 12.5 inch Noveske upper (5.56) and it worked well. I didn't realize how well it worked until I took it off when I got ready to install my suppressor mount. On a whim, I fired it with a naked muzzle, just to see how effective the Kx3 really was. After picking up my hat off the ground after the muzzle blast and dabbing the blood from my eyebrow where my Acog had kissed me with the unexpected recoil, I knew more about the KX3. Good stuff. For redirecting noise and concussion, AND for mitigating recoil.
     

    Patrick_S

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    Thanks for a the replies. The KX3 was high on my list as I have played with one on a 5.56 gun, I just wanted to see if there was anything else out there that I didn't know about. Anyone have any hands on time with a BRT CovertComp?
     

    RollingThunder51

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    Re: Quietest 30cal muzzle device thats not a supressor

    Pat, linked this into another thread and just saw your question.

    There is no comparison. The BRT is better than a rear directing brake, better than a side directing flash hider, better than a top directing rise defeat, but still no where near the KX for forward impulse.

    Try the KX in .30 and remember to plug up.