R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

[One_Shot]

Hi all - I am in the market for a new (maybe used) rifle. I am not new to guns, but am relatively new to long range rifles. I have been browsing and learning for a while, and still have not come to a clear conclusion. I want to spend a MAX of 1500-1600 on a rifle alone. That doesn't mean I have to spend that much. For example if a Tikka T3 lite does the job for $700 I am fine with that, but if for 1200+ dollars I can get a much better piece of equipment I am more than ready to do that.

Between all the following models in .308, for example,
Rem 700 SPS ~$700
Rem 700 XCR ~$1400
Tikka T3 Lite ~$700
Tikka Tactical ~$1400
Savage 10FP ~$700
Savage McMillan ~$1300
Sako 85 Synthetic/finnlight ~$1500

it seems like there are HUGE price differences for relatively small changes. Between the many different models of the 700's for example, it seems like most people say its a good place to start but the stock sucks and you are paying for the Remington brand. Is it easy to change the stock? I have never done this.

for the Tikka's, the only thing I have read is that the stock seems a little cheap and slick, but even the $700 Tikka Lite or Varmint are GREAT rifles. IS the tactical version worth twice as much?

I read great reviews about the Savages as well.

But in the price range for the nicer Rems, Tikkas, and Savages, The Sako 85 series comes into play... In particular the synthetic stainless or Finnlight. These are also top notch are they not? Are you paying for a little bit of the Sako name in their price?

I know this is a very broad subject open to wide debate and opinion, but I was looking for a thread to compare these common, comparable, and off the shelf rifles.

if this helps, for my use, this rifle will be my hiking rifle that I shoot between 500 and 800 meters. It will be carried in an eberlestock pack.

http://www.eberlestock.com/Tactical%20Master.htm

To those of you not familiar with these packs, i posted the link to share. They are the best I have used. Check 'em out.

Thanks to all!

EDIT: for $1500 can one build his own rifle that is better than anything off the shelf for the same amount?

 

[LNO1]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

Did you not like or just overlook FN SPR?

 

[OptedOut]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

I think the Savage is an outstanding, mine out shoots all the Rems I've owner or been issued.

 

[One_Shot]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LNO1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you not like or just overlook FN SPR? </div></div>

Never read about the FN SPR series. They look good too. What are prices like? I like the stock. Its not a necessary for my choice, but I do prefer the more pistol grip shape on the stock like the FN SPR. We can add them to the list to compare.

 

[One_Shot]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MSG Janoski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the Savage is an outstanding, mine out shoots all the Rems I've owner or been issued. </div></div>

Which model savage do you currently have? I like the savages too. I feel like you pay more for the Remington name.

On a side topic, for painting these rifles, can you paint over any non-wood stock surface and barrel surface? Whichever rifle I choose, I will most likely be throwing some paint on there...

 

[GardDog]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

A .308 Rem 700P is around $800. It's in a HS Precision stock, with aluminum bedding block. Mine shot sub moa out of the box. Great rifles.

 

[dtask]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

I've owned the FN SPR and it is a very nice rifle - quite accurate. The grip on the stock seemed "fat" for me and while I usually don't mind a wider grip, I wondered all the way up until I sold the rifle if I'd get used to it. I guess I didn't.

Savage rifles, for me (and I've only owned the LE combo version ...a 10FPXP I believe is the model) in .223 & .308 have been very accurate rifles. The stocks leave much to be desired on mine, I got them with the crap stock and the Burris scope before they went to the better stock and the Leupold in the combo. Very good shooters for the money. I've heard that sometimes you'll get a lemon with Savage, but I did not.

Remington 700's and I just don't seem to agree. I don't know if it's me or the rifles, but the 3 that I've owned I bought with high hopes and just seem to get frustrated with my performance on them.

Sako and Tikka, are my favorites out of all of these. I feel like you can't go wrong with either - though in Tikka, I only have the M595 Master Sporter configuration and an M695 for hunting. I'm sure that the T3 Tactical would be excellent as well. Sako rifles are a family "must own a Sako" tradition so, I'll admit my bias to them. My favorite of the Sako lineup didn't make your list either - the TRG42.

 

[OptedOut]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One_Shot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MSG Janoski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the Savage is an outstanding, mine out shoots all the Rems I've owner or been issued. </div></div>

Which model savage do you currently have? I like the savages too. I feel like you pay more for the Remington name.

On a side topic, for painting these rifles, can you paint over any non-wood stock surface and barrel surface? Whichever rifle I choose, I will most likely be throwing some paint on there... </div></div>

Mine is the new'ish 10FLCP-K http://www.savagearms.com/10flcp.htm it has the newer full length 3-D aluminum bedded stock.

You can paint or have a "finish" put on just about anything. I've worn and carried so much camo over the years an all black matte finish is kinda nice to me!

 

[One_Shot]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dtask</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Sako and Tikka, are my favorites out of all of these. I feel like you can't go wrong with either - though in Tikka, I only have the M595 Master Sporter configuration and an M695 for hunting. I'm sure that the T3 Tactical would be excellent as well. Sako rifles are a family "must own a Sako" tradition so, I'll admit my bias to them. My favorite of the Sako lineup didn't make your list either - the TRG42.

</div></div>

Most of my experience is on a TRG-42 because thats what my dad shoots. Other than that its been a older SSG, and a Rem 700 wood stock hunting rifle... I didnt add the 42 to the list because its a little out of the price range too...

Holding the Tikka in the store it feels great, and the Sako Finnlight feels even better. BUT - I would like the stock to be more of a pistol grip...

So what are the main differences between the $700 Rem700 sps/Tikka T3 Lite/Savage 10fp and the twice as much (~$1400)Rem700 XCR/Tikka Tactical/Savage McMillan... twice as much should be a lot but I dont see much...

 

[adm845]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

Everyone always has there own opinion on this topic and everyone is probably right! I personally love the 700s. You can get a cheap 700, new stock, new barrel, and have the action trued up for around 1500 to create a nice custom tack driver on the cheap. By the same measure, a FN, Tikka, or Sako in the 1500 range is probably going to preform as well as that customized 700. I dont have a lot of experience with Savages but there are plenty or people on hear who swear by them.

As for painting, I used Lauer DuraCoat on my Sig 556 and was very happy with it. I know from experience that it goes onto metals and plastics very nicely and they claim it can also be used on wood with similiar results. Just make sure that if you are going to paint the barrel you use some type or duracoat or paint meant for extreme temperatures, otherwise a hot barrel with cause your paintjob to start peeling off.

 

[TapoutSniper]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

I'd go with the R700... I picked up a used SPS a couple weeks ago for $350. Yes, the stock is crap. Since purchasing it I've replaced the stock, bedded it, lapped the lugs, and done a trigger job. All of these modifications are fairly simple and you can find instrustions here on the hide. With that being said I have a little over $400 in everything, but I'm shooting 3/4" groups with factory ammo. I figure with a lil load development it will easily get < 1/2". If you can find a similar deal that leaves you a nice chunk of change from your budget for some top notch glass.

 

[calebintn]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

I have a weatherby Vanguard in .223 it has a 1" MOA guarantee on it, but it shoots a half inch out of the box on sand bags with factory ammo.

 

[One_Shot]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TapoutSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd go with the R700... I picked up a used SPS a couple weeks ago for $350. Yes, the stock is crap. Since purchasing it I've replaced the stock, bedded it, lapped the lugs, and done a trigger job. All of these modifications are fairly simple and you can find instrustions here on the hide. With that being said I have a little over $400 in everything, but I'm shooting 3/4" groups with factory ammo. I figure with a lil load development it will easily get < 1/2". If you can find a similar deal that leaves you a nice chunk of change from your budget for some top notch glass. </div></div>

I like the idea of building my own from a used gun. I think it would be a good learning experience and you can customize it how you like. Where do I find out about doing all that stuff for a noob? the gun-smithing section?

Does anyone out there have a sako 85 synthetic? you only really hear about the TRG series, not the others...

 

[One_Shot]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

what does it mean if a stock is "not glass bedded and there are no pillars"... from snipercentrals review of the savage 10fcp McMillan...

http://www.snipercentral.com/sav10fcpmcm.htm

Out of the rifles I have been looking at this seems like it might be the best deal for a quality, "pistol grip" rifle under $1500

how much would a gunsmith charge to do the work the review is talking about?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

The Savage Model 10 Precision Carbine bears all the requisite features, and follows the current fad toward shorter barrels, as well.

For my own preferences, I'd suggest the Savage Model 10 FCP-K, since I like the longer barrel.

Both of these models were upgraded with the Accue-Stock package, which I have fired, and can attest to it's excellent factory o/o box accuracy.

Keep in mind that after a few range sessions, any of the guns you mention will be used guns. Would you rather have a used gun that cost $800-$900, or one that cost several hundred dollars more, in your hands? The two Savage rifles I have mentioned are adequate and complete, right o/o the box, others may need tweaking to reflect the same level of features and capabilities; and Savage's reputation for factory accurate rifles is simply unimpeachable.

Greg

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

One_shot,

For the last eight or so years, i've touted Savage as the go-to rifle for accuracy out of the box. they have a great product in the basic 12FV's, FVSS, and BVSS's. But, they make other stocks too, like the BAT. That only comes in .308 I believe, and can be purchased for less than $1500. Again, if you want to spend that much. Most of their basic stuff is $500-800 depending on what you buy.

Right now on GB you can buy a Rem 700 SPS for anywhere from $450-$600. You can also look around there for a used one, or go over to AA and look there. It'll save you some money and if you decide to upgrade to something else it won't cost you to get out of it.

Still, by and large, the Rem 700 is the most customizable rifle out there. The Savages are coming on though with a lot of aftermarket products like the Rem 700. So that would be an easy way to upgrade. The only advantage Savage has over the Rem 700 is you can change your barrel yourself. Stock changes are no big deal for either unless you have a really odd/large barrel contour.

 

[GCMxVeGeTa]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

I bought my Savage 12FV in .223 and R700 SPS in .223 used for $400 and $300 respectively, both shoot great but the Savage is more for long range with it's 1:9 twist for heavier bullets. It also has a longer/heavier barrel. If I was to do it all over again I might buy just the Savage but in .308.

Out of your list up there I'd get the Savage 10FP, good price and 20 inch (I believe) heavy barrel.

 

[nashlaw]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

If I were buying a gun to use "out-of-the-box", it would be either one of the highend Remingtons(PSS, LTR, etc.) or one of the better Savages(Tactical models with the McMillan or HS Precision stocks, or one with the new V-block stock).

Either of these rifles would shoot better'n I can hold it and not break the bank at the checkout counter. Personally, I like the Remingtons because I am more familiar with them, but the Savage Scout rifle with the V-block is very tempting.

Either of these, I doubt you could go wrong.

 

[thefiremeister]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

Savage 10fp has a 24" barrel.

I bought mine because I wanted a 308, a DBM a 24 inch non fluted heavy barrel with out a flash suppressor.

The 10 fp had everything I was looking for and I knew I was going to change the stock and do some of the work myself so I wanted a rifle I could work on.

The bottom metal for a Savage was way less expensive than the Remington and I could still get 9 round mags.

If I really wanted to there is a guy, Jeff I think, that sells bottom metal for a savage that will take AI mags.

Remington does offer more options for more money but I got what I wanted from the Savage.

 

[Hummer]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

My vote would be for Tikka Varmint 308 with several 6 or 10 shot mags.

 

[JamieD]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

I like the Savages for what your trying to accomplish. It will save you some funds to put twards ammo and accessories. Also, you can get 9 or 10 (nor sure on count) round mags from sharpshooters supply for the clip fed model.
If you want to spend the extra cash. Go with the McMillan version then send the stock back to McMillan to add a cheekpiece and adjustable LOP recoil pad while you have down time over the winter that way rifle fits you correctly. Ever try running a marathon in a set of shoes that are two sizes too small or too big : )

Good Luck,
JamieD
Wolf Precision
All Hogs Go to Heaven

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

My serious Savage F Class rifle has a Savage A3 Tactical aftermarket with LOP adjustment and cutout style adjustable cheek rest. It was also pillar bedded at McMillan for my barreled action. The barrel is L-W 28" 1:8" .260 Rem stainless, and the trigger and recoil lug are SSS. For a shooter of median stature and build, the standard McM stock is a pretty good fit. My personal LOP is 16.5", so an adjustable LOP is appropriate. Cheek height/stockweld can be accomodated with pads and stock packs.

I can recommend no better assemblage of LR shooting components. It has served me faithfully since early Summer 2002, and I see several more years left in it.

Greg

 

[JamieD]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

One Shot,
What kind of shooting comps were you planning on shooting in. If tactical matches are your goal than another option would be a Remington SPS heavey barrel in caliber of choice than purchase an AICS stock. You could even go .223, AICS mags will be out soon.

For my physical build I love the AI stock, it's a little heavier, but man is it fun to shoot. A couple little accurizing tricks and your good to go for a while. All the adjustments and no bedding required : )

JamieD
Wolf Precision
All Hogs Go to Heaven

 

[JoeSmith]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

I couldn't decide either so I just got both, Tikka T3 Tact and a Rem LTR. I like them equally well for each has excellent traits. Although the T3 is going to get a Roedale chassis.
http://www.roedaleprecision.com/epages/index.htm#2

 

[heavybarrel]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

SPS was a cheap stocks , i like the xcr tactical whit B&C stocks

 

[One_Shot]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

JamieD - I wasn't planning on getting into competitions, this is more of a hobby (for the time being) - but who knows! I think I have narrowed it down to a savage 10fcp McMillan or some sort of tikka.

I like the stock, the heavy barrel, and how solid the savage feels. Disadvantage would be the action and barrel compared to the Tikka, I think the Tikka is higher quality action and barrel (even though its a lighter barrel... kind of?).... - COMMENTS ANYONE? Shooter5?

Advantages for the Tikka are the better action and barrel (I think), and threaded barrel... Disadvantages being the stock and I don't care for the plastic DBM and small mag. Apparently you can change the bottom metal and get a nicer AICS set up going for these guns now? Looks like manners makes a nice stock for the Tikkas as well now.

I appreciate all the responses by the way. Thanks for the info so far guys!

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

you may not plan on entering competitions, but one of the only chances to shoot at a 300 yard range in my area is the private ranges monthly matches. they have an 88 round 300 yard match. nice thing is most of the people i have met there are super helpful and will gladly offer tips and assistance. plus it nice to hang out with some other shooters. dont discount the experience you will get at a club in your area. plus its trigger time

 

[Brazense]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

I exchanged my 308 Tikka for a Sauer 200 STR in 6,5x55. Super happy with that one, very nice to shoot from different positions and have great ergos (for me oc).

Here in Sweden we have very high quality factory loaded moly ammo for a relatively low cost, big reason for the change.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

Tikka is very good quality. I think you'd be surprised at Savages quality. Savage is very good quality where it's needed. That's pretty much why the rifle is the price it is and not higher. They don't put money into them where they aren't needed. And when they do you see it in the price.

 

[Belisarius]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vettern</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I exchanged my 308 Tikka for a Sauer 200 STR in 6,5x55. Super happy with that one, very nice to shoot from different positions and have great ergos (for me oc).

Here in Sweden we have very high quality factory loaded moly ammo for a relatively low cost, big reason for the change. </div></div>
I wish we could get Sauer 200 STR in the US

 

[HotIce]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

Hiking rifle? It's not going to be cheap, but AICS-2.0 (~$1000), Surgeon RSR action (~$750), and a nice 18" barrel (~$500 installed).

 

[Brazense]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

Belisarius: If you are allowed to import from EU it shouldn't be a problem. Bit expensive though, new ones cost approx 1600 Euro and used for about half of that.

 

[hamr56]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

Oneshot

Do you plan on taking this gun out to the field for hunting? If so consider weight options in your decision. I personally think you will be happy with either the Tikka, or the Savage. I have one of each and like them both.

 

[One_Shot]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hiking rifle? It's not going to be cheap, but AICS-2.0 (~$1000), Surgeon RSR action (~$750), and a nice 18" barrel (~$500 installed).
</div></div>

That would be a cool rifle for sure. I am still thinking about just shooting with my dads TRG for now and then building myself a rifle in a couple months... the surgeon actions are sweet.

 

[One_Shot]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hamr56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oneshot

Do you plan on taking this gun out to the field for hunting? If so consider weight options in your decision. I personally think you will be happy with either the Tikka, or the Savage. I have one of each and like them both. </div></div>

Right now not so much hunting, just hiking and target shooting. Maybe hunting in the future...

I went to MT Guns today in Santa Barbara. It was a very nice shop. the guys were nice, knowledgeable, and happy to show me around. Its not really a store, just a storage area and then a big gunsmith workshop with a HUGE multi-billion dollar lathe

.

Now Mac at MT guns has me convinced to build my own setup. His prices are very modest too. We'll see what happens. Im busy until mid february with work so i know this wont happen soon...

until next time...

 

[Graped417]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

Savage is great. Have you ever used the accutrigger? Some love it, some hate it. Im personally a fan.

 

[One_Shot]

Re: R700? Tikka? Savage? Sako?

I have never used the accutrigger... I am leaning towards a savage McM to use and maybe modify down the road. I need to get to some gun shops and feel some stuff. I am in milwaukee for the holidays maybe there is a big gun shop around here...